Gilbert commits to UConn

[UConn990411]

You actually are saying we should live off of a Kentucky approach. I totally understand the current outlook. But what that really says is that pro hoops should reorganized around a true minor league system - not likely.

Uh, no. He's saying that having some players occasionally become lottery picks after a couple years will make UConn an attractive destination for top-tier talent.

It's baffling that anyone can disagree with this, but here we are.

 

[aceboon]

You actually are saying we should live off of a Kentucky approach. I totally understand the current outlook. But what that really says is that pro hoops should reorganized around a true minor league system - not likely.

I directly stated in my post that I'm not saying UConn should have a revolving door of players after 1 year like UK...yet you are now telling me that's what I'm saying. Some of you guys are legit oddballs.

 

[James]

Adams is a legitimate pro prospect entering the season, this could easily play out as a 'jrue holiday situation' @ ucla where he backed up collison for 1 yr then jetted to the league. I would hope not, or that puts an onus on KO really getting diallo to reclassify. Frankly the earlier adams declares (and if he is projected as a lotto pick) the better it is for the uconn brand. espcially pg's, could have 4 uconn pg's in the league in a year or two all under 30.

 

[cohenzone]

I directly stated in my post that I'm not saying UConn should have a revolving door of players after 1 year like UK...yet you are now telling me that's what I'm saying. Some of you guys are legit oddballs.[/QUOTE

I know what you said. You miss my point, oddball or not. I said, in so many words, that hoping a player is good enough to leave, and to hope he actually leaves, is arguing in favor of a true minor league system, not a stable college program as I would prefer to have.

I hope this isn't too subtle for you, but what you are saying you favor, while not quite UK, is enough studs who actually get out early but still make us legit NC contender. What that logically amounts to is a hope for high entertainment value with a hope for an NC. I say, I'll take the kid who provides high entertainment value but who decides to stay 4 years even if he could have left early. Understand? I know the lay of the land, but it doesn't mean I hope a great player leaves early. Some top players don't leave early.

 

[cohenzone]

Uh, no. He's saying that having some players occasionally become lottery picks after a couple years will make UConn an attractive destination for top-tier talent.

It's baffling that anyone can disagree with this, but here we are.

Read my reply to Acrboon. Sorry that you favor having a great player leave early so that we attract other great players who leave early. I prefer great players who decide to stay for 4 years. That doesn't mean I want mediocre players. Frankly, I this it's disingenuous for a fan to say we don't want to be UK and say at the same time we want to live off of players who leave early. The same guys who cry when we aren't in the discussion for stud UK recruits.

 

[aceboon]

@cohenzone, what I said and what I'm hoping for is what mostly UConn has always been since the mid 90s, a national title contender while producing high lottery picks and first rounders. You must have been pretty miserable when Donyell, Ray, Rip, Caron, BG, Emeka, etc were leaving early for the pros while at the same time either winning titles or having UConn at the top of the rankings as a legit title contender.

 

[HuskyFich]

Read my reply to Acrboon. Sorry that you favor having a great player leave early so that we attract other great players who leave early. I prefer great players who decide to stay for 4 years. That doesn't mean I want mediocre players. Frankly, I this it's disingenuous for a fan to say we don't want to be UK and say at the same time we want to live off of players who leave early. The same guys who cry when we aren't in the discussion for stud UK recruits.

Sounds more like you don't care what our players do post UConn and it's a naïve thought. Great players don't stay 4 years...they either leave at their early peak or do everything possible to graduate early (if the degree is that important to them). But then again, great in college is a lot different than great in the NBA. I mean shabazz and boat were absolute studs in college and got zero love in the NBA draft process. Main Point: you leave when your stock is the highest if you have the ability to

 

[superjohn]

Read my reply to Acrboon. Sorry that you favor having a great player leave early so that we attract other great players who leave early. I prefer great players who decide to stay for 4 years. That doesn't mean I want mediocre players. Frankly, I this it's disingenuous for a fan to say we don't want to be UK and say at the same time we want to live off of players who leave early. The same guys who cry when we aren't in the discussion for stud UK recruits.

We won't be a title contending team, the Uconn we've been for the last quarter century if we are made up of all 4 year players, this is just silly.

 

[UConn990411]

This dude apparently hasn't followed college hoops since 1985.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Read my reply to Acrboon. Sorry that you favor having a great player leave early so that we attract other great players who leave early. I prefer great players who decide to stay for 4 years. That doesn't mean I want mediocre players. Frankly, I this it's disingenuous for a fan to say we don't want to be UK and say at the same time we want to live off of players who leave early. The same guys who cry when we aren't in the discussion for stud UK recruits.

This doesn't sound like you've been watching college basketball for the last 20 years. For the most part, kids who stay four years do so because they have to. That 5-star recruit that everyone covets plays all four years only because something went wrong. This notion that you can either be Kentucky and take great players who leave after one year or UConn and take great players that stay all 4 years just sounds like you don't really have much of a handle on college basketball.

 

[tcf15]

@cohenzone, what I said and what I'm hoping for is what mostly UConn has always been since the mid 90s, a national title contender while producing high lottery picks and first rounders. You must have been pretty miserable when Donyell, Ray, Rip, Caron, BG, Emeka, etc were leaving early for the pros while at the same time either winning titles or having UConn at the top of the rankings as a legit title contender.

That's what I'm not getting from @cohenzone's argument. It's been this way since Calhoun got here.

 

[Tenspro2002]

We've typically done best when led by stud early-entrants (usually juniors), surrounded by veteran bench players who know their role.

The 4-year guys (Donny Marshall, Ricky Moore, KFRee, Taliek, Denham Brown, Jeff Adrien, Niels Giffey) are important, but don't kid yourself that they're more important than guys like Ray, Rip, Caron, Emeka, Ben, Rudy, Thabeet, and Kemba.

4-year studs like Bazz and Boat, who dominate in college but don't have an easy path to the NBA, are rare. Maybe that's KO's new strategy, but it's not clear how sustainable it is. I think in looking ahead to future recruiting classes, we'd do ourselves a favor to start putting underclassmen in the lottery (or even the first round) again. Our NBA presence has waned a bit, and KO is going to have to demonstrate that he can get top guys to the League expediently. Daniel Hamilton should end that drought though.*

* That said, we should consider ourselves fortunate that going 3 years without a lottery pick constitutes a drought for us.

 

[David 76]

A couple of those guys graduated in 3. To me, the best of both worlds.

 

[HooperScooper]

Not sure if this was posted but ESPN.com always does an article called Scout's Take when top 100 recruits commit. Usually done by Reggie Rankin.

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/ncb...ake-espn-100-pg-alterique-gilbert-picks-UConn

It's an Insider's article but here's some of it.

What he brings: Gilbert is a strong and cat-quick point guard who is an excellent athlete and has a great feel for the game. He has a tight handle and is an excellent passer with matching court vision. He pushes the ball on the break and can get teammates involved in the halfcourt set. He can score by getting to the rim, hitting the floater or knocking down the open three. He can run the offense with great efficiency as well. Gilbert also sets the tone of defense with his intense ball pressure.

"I bring great energy and leadership on and off the court," Gilbert added.

How he fits: Gilbert will be great at pushing the ball and making plays for himself or teammates in the Huskies' transition game. He will run the halfcourt offense and create as needed, especially at end-of-clock situations.

"I watched how previous guards played in the system and I know I can do the same or better setting up teammates and making plays on both ends of the floor," Gilbert said.

Who he reminds us of: Gilbert reminds us of a cross between Will Bynum and Ty Lawson with his athleticism, strength, speed, quickness and playmaking ability.

 

[mets1090]

I say, I'll take the kid who provides high entertainment value but who decides to stay 4 years even if he could have left early.

Everyone would love to have an NBA quality player for 4 years. It's just not realistic to think that a player with NBA size and skill will stay for 4 years, nor should they.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Everyone would love to have an NBA quality player for 4 years. It's just not realistic to think that a player with NBA size and skill will stay for 4 years, nor should they.

Who was the last guy to do that? Duncan?

 

[nomar]

We've typically done best when led by stud early-entrants (usually juniors), surrounded by veteran bench players who know their role.

The 4-year guys (Donny Marshall, Ricky Moore, KFRee, Taliek, Denham Brown, Jeff Adrien, Niels Giffey) are important, but don't kid yourself that they're more important than guys like Ray, Rip, Caron, Emeka, Ben, Rudy, Thabeet, and Kemba.

4-year studs like Bazz and Boat, who dominate in college but don't have an easy path to the NBA, are rare. Maybe that's KO's new strategy, but it's not clear how sustainable it is. I think in looking ahead to future recruiting classes, we'd do ourselves a favor to start putting underclassmen in the lottery (or even the first round) again. Our NBA presence has waned a bit, and KO is going to have to demonstrate that he can get top guys to the League expediently. Daniel Hamilton should end that drought though.*

* That said, we should consider ourselves fortunate that going 3 years without a lottery pick constitutes a drought for us.

I think that's all correct.

I look at a guy like Ulis and see him possibly as Calipari's best recent recruit, because he's so short and will be there to provide stability. It's rare for 6-footers to leave early. Guys like Kemba--let alone Chris Paul--don't grow on trees.

So there is certainly a benefit involved in getting undersized players. Frankly, that doesn't just go for point guards; if Adrien put up the same stats in a 3-inch-taller body, he'd have probably left early too.

But I'm not sure it's a "strategy." I think it's probably more luck than anything else. Duke/KU/UK gets the guys with the NBA bodies, and we end up with the smaller kids, and they end up staying 3 and 4 years, to our benefit. (That's not to say we shouldn't target the Diamond Stones of the world. Of course we should.)

 

[aceboon]

We've typically done best when led by stud early-entrants (usually juniors), surrounded by veteran bench players who know their role.

The 4-year guys (Donny Marshall, Ricky Moore, KFRee, Taliek, Denham Brown, Jeff Adrien, Niels Giffey) are important, but don't kid yourself that they're more important than guys like Ray, Rip, Caron, Emeka, Ben, Rudy, Thabeet, and Kemba.

4-year studs like Bazz and Boat, who dominate in college but don't have an easy path to the NBA, are rare. Maybe that's KO's new strategy, but it's not clear how sustainable it is. I think in looking ahead to future recruiting classes, we'd do ourselves a favor to start putting underclassmen in the lottery (or even the first round) again. Our NBA presence has waned a bit, and KO is going to have to demonstrate that he can get top guys to the League expediently. Daniel Hamilton should end that drought though.*

* That said, we should consider ourselves fortunate that going 3 years without a lottery pick constitutes a drought for us.

Don't see that as his strategy, he inherited both of them. I expect things to be like with JC, a few top line guys who you expect to be able to go pro early(DHam, Adams) and then your support guys who are expected to grow within the program and fill out roles. Then you will also have your recruits who end up exceeding expectations and becoming pros, which he might have with Brimah.

 

[Fishy]

Maybe this is an incongruous parallel, but I'd still like to feed Christian Laettner to a hill of fire ants.

You think my Millsap nonsense is annoying now, wait til 2025.

 

[jibsey]

Not sure if this was posted but ESPN.com always does an article called Scout's Take when top 100 recruits commit. Usually done by Reggie Rankin.

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/ncb...ake-espn-100-pg-alterique-gilbert-picks-UConn

It's an Insider's article but here's some of it.

What he brings: Gilbert is a strong and cat-quick point guard who is an excellent athlete and has a great feel for the game. He has a tight handle and is an excellent passer with matching court vision. He pushes the ball on the break and can get teammates involved in the halfcourt set. He can score by getting to the rim, hitting the floater or knocking down the open three. He can run the offense with great efficiency as well. Gilbert also sets the tone of defense with his intense ball pressure.

"I bring great energy and leadership on and off the court," Gilbert added.

How he fits: Gilbert will be great at pushing the ball and making plays for himself or teammates in the Huskies' transition game. He will run the halfcourt offense and create as needed, especially at end-of-clock situations.

"I watched how previous guards played in the system and I know I can do the same or better setting up teammates and making plays on both ends of the floor," Gilbert said.

Who he reminds us of: Gilbert reminds us of a cross between Will Bynum and Ty Lawson with his athleticism, strength, speed, quickness and playmaking ability.

Hooper, thanks for that.

 

[cohenzone]

We won't be a title contending team, the Uconn we've been for the last quarter century if we are made up of all 4 year players, this is just silly.

And of course you all misunderstand what I'm saying. Acrboon said basically that in order to compete relatively often for an NC you need to have recruits come in who will be capable of not only leaving early but being a high draft pick. And having that will get similar players in later years. Whether or not it's impossible to be competitive without such players can be argued. Obviously
such a system has been in place for some but not every school. Aceboon and others here seem to think that's great and they are entitled to feel that way

What I said and the point that several of you don't get is that it's too bad that it's that way. The other thing I said is that liking it the current way is pretty much an acceptance of the idea that elite college teams are effectively a minor league system for the pros. If you like college sports that way, fine. But college hoops can actually survive without the 1 or 2 or 3 and dones. Sorry if that seems oddball but to me, being rah rah for staying with the the current status quo is not all that healthy for college sports. But I have seasons tickets. And you?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I don't think it's that people think it's "great" as much as it's a recognition of the state of affairs in which we find ourselves. Although I will say that getting rid of the kids who would leave early would leave college basketball looking a lot like the NESCAC. If you're a diehard women's fan and you don't mind layups that hit the bottom of the backboard I could see how that would interest you but I would imagine college basketball would have an even more difficult time attracting eyeballs.

 

[selles]

The other thing I said is that liking it the current way is pretty much an acceptance of the idea that elite college teams are effectively a minor league system for the pros.

I really don't agree with the dichotomy you're setting up here. There are a million shades of gray between 'everyone stays for four years' and 'minor league system for the pros'.

 

[cohenzone]

I don't think it's that people think it's "great" as much as it's a recognition of the state of affairs in which we find ourselves. Although I will say that getting rid of the kids who would leave early would leave college basketball looking a lot like the NESCAC. If you're a diehard women's fan and you don't mind layups that hit the bottom of the backboard I could see how that would interest you but I would imagine college basketball would have an even more difficult time attracting eyeballs.

College hoops has gone through many evolutions in just the last 50 years. For decades, great hs players who were not college material academically weren't recruited or they played JUCO first. College hoops still had great teams and great players. Today, there's no such thing as an elite hs player who isn't recruited by some high level D1 programs. Then, of course, until the late 70s or so frosh couldn't play varsity. Obviously you can have very good college hoops if one of two systems were in place. Either a kid can be drafted right out of hs and if not, stick the the four years or at least 3. The game would be every bit as interesting as it is today. And I would also at that a hs could who declared for the draft should be allowed to play college ball if undrafted. Without a true minor league system like baseball, I think that would be a fair rule.

 

[cohenzone]

I really don't agree with the dichotomy you're setting up here. There are a million shades of gray between 'everyone stays for four years' and 'minor league system for the pros'.

It's not my dichotomy. It's the way the system is now for kids who the pros think are ready before senior year and who want to go pro. I'll also add that I think the people here who don't want us to be UK but want kids capable of leaving early because it will be an incentive to later recruits are kidding themselves. They would take almost any one of the UK 1 or 2 and done kids. I don't think for a second that a kid like a Rudy Gay, an Andre Drummond or even Jenba Walker leaving early is good for the team the next year. its good for those kids for sure.