Gilbert commits to UConn

[UConn990411]

I'm not exaggerating when I say you're making one of the weirder arguments I've ever seen on here.

This debate may have been relevant a decade ago, but it's bizarre that it's happening today.

 

[uconngb]

I'm not exaggerating when I say you're making one of the weirder arguments I've ever seen on here.

This debate may have been relevant a decade ago, but it's bizarre that it's happening today.

I think at this point he's even confused himself and doesn't even know what his argument is. The college game has evolved dramatically in just the last 5 years, let alone the last twenty. Totally different world now, even Dook is embracing the one and dones.....who would have thunk??.

 

[2Husky]

Some would argue that college is about preparing students for their careers, for many it takes 4+ years and involves giving the kid a piece of paper to hang on the wall. but if people leave before the four years and the paper, if they are able to have a successful career that should be considered a success, whether they bounce a ball or start an internet company or do something else. Not everyone needs 4 years of college.

 

[jibsey]

The way the system is set up now the majority of the very top picks are going to play for like 4 teams and go after 1 or 2 years. Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina and the rest scattered around. Those team rosters are stacked year after year. This is what we are fighting at UCONN ( even with Hamilton) I think that this year's team has a great mix of players that could be the right combination to do damage. We will still be an underdog to them. We have several NBA/ near NBA talent but no one and done type players. Experience and good talent is what we can bring. It's unlikely that we will get enough superstars to do it the way Duke just did but you do need the certain talent level to get in position. I can't see a team of 4 year players doing it because if they have the kind of talent that is necessary to get the job done they're gonna get drafted, but even though I would take those players, there's more satisfaction to be gained from years like 2011 and 14 for me. More enjoyment. Can't wait.

 

[cohenzone]

I'm not exaggerating when I say you're making one of the weirder arguments I've ever seen on here.

What a waste of everyone's time.

Sorry junior. I'll try to think more like you.

Some would argue that college is about preparing students for their careers, for many it takes 4+ years and involves giving the kid a piece of paper to hang on the wall. but if people leave before the four years and the paper, if they are able to have a successful career that should be considered a success, whether they bounce a ball or start an internet company or do something else. Not everyone needs 4 years of college.

thats entirely true for the individual. It doesn't follow that it's great for the organization. A basketball team isn't the Business School. But to belabor my point because I have nothing better to do with my time tonight, the system is what it is. But that doesn't make it the best system for college sports. I happen not to buy into the proposition that glitz is all that matters in college sports. But as I said, I have seasons tickets anyway cuz I like a 360 jam by a 6' kid as much as the next guy.

 

[cohenzone]

I think at this point he's even confused himself and doesn't even know what his argument is. The college game has evolved dramatically in just the last 5 years, let alone the last twenty. Totally different world now, even Dook is embracing the one and dones.....who would have thunk??.

Not confused. You can't follow an argument. Just because something "is" doesn't mean it's necessarily good. Evidentially you think that because something has evolved, it's automatically a good thing? I hope you aren't that simple.

 

[superjohn]

cohenzone, you seem to want to go back to the 60's. Sure it's nice having some players to watch for 4 years but I have absolutely no problem with kids that are ready for the NBA leaving early. You seem to think this is some new phenomenon and it's too bad that UConn feels they have to go with this trend. Kids have been leaving school early for a very long time and it's been happening at UConn for a long time.

 

[UChusky916]

They would take almost any one of the UK 1 or 2 and done kids. I don't think for a second that a kid like a Rudy Gay, an Andre Drummond or even Jenba Walker leaving early is good for the team the next year. its good for those kids for sure.

Love Jenba Walker.

Quit while you're behind bro

 

[cohenzone]

cohenzone, you seem to want to go back to the 60's. Sure it's nice having some players to watch for 4 years but I have absolutely no problem with kids that are ready for the NBA leaving early. You seem to think this is some new phenomenon and it's too bad that UConn feels they have to go with this trend. Kids have been leaving school early for a very long time and it's been happening at UConn for a long time.

You also miss my point. Aceboon stated that it would be bad for UConn if Adams didn't prove able to be drafted before his senior year because it would send the wrong message to future "elite" recruits. I merely said that I think it's better for us if an elite player stays for 4 years. Tell me why that is bad for a program.

Would you not have preferred Kemba for another year? Or Gay for a few more? Or Drummond for several more? I think winning attracts recruits and if we have one less scholarships to give because Kemba stays another year, why is that not better than thinking it's better for future recruiting that a kid develops enough to leave early. I think that is a position so full of holes and sees early departures for something they are not as they relate to program and recruiting success.

 

[superjohn]

It's bad for the program if Jalen stays for 4 years because he is one of the top point guard recruits in the country and has ideal size, speed, athleticism that the NBA looks for in point guards. If he stays all 4 years he didn't develop like he was supposed to and it's bad for Jalen and bad for UConn's future recruiting of point guards. The best schools reload with talent, they don't hope that an all word talent is slow in his development or never develops into what he was supposed to and is forced to stay 4 years. No, I didn't want Kemba coming back for his senior year, it would have been ridiculous for him to. He was the best player in the country as a junior, won us a title, his stock would never be higher and wanting him to stay would be selfish. Rudy was a guaranteed top 10 pick, Calhoun told him to go and I would have told him the same. Drummond wanted to come back but because the NCAA told us we couldn't play in the tournament the next season, Drummond decided to leave. If we were tourny eligible that season I would have wanted Andre to stay because he would have dominated and been the #1 pick.

 

[cohenzone]

Love Jenba Walker.

Quit while you're behind bro

One typo in 15 posts ain't half bad. Beyond that, as I said, bro, tell me that having any elite player stay for 4 years is bad for a program, because it's bad only if you buy into the idea that a kid who can leave early should leave early and that the fact that the kid leaves early is good because it encourages future elite recruits to come to the school foolish argument because landing any future elite recruit is iffy to begin with and your trading a kniwn quality player for a player, even if hs elite, not be all that.

 

[CL82]

I don't think it's that people think it's "great" as much as it's a recognition of the state of affairs in which we find ourselves. Although I will say that getting rid of the kids who would leave early would leave college basketball looking a lot like the NESCAC. If you're a diehard women's fan and you don't mind layups that hit the bottom of the backboard I could see how that would interest you but I would imagine college basketball would have an even more difficult time attracting eyeballs.

So kids who aren't leaving early can't make a lay up E?

 

[superjohn]

One typo in 15 posts ain't half bad. Beyond that, as I said, bro, tell me that having any elite player stay for 4 years is bad for a program, because it's bad only if you buy into the idea that a kid who can leave early should leave early and that the fact that the kid leaves early is good because it encourages future elite recruits to come to the school foolish argument because landing any future elite recruit is iffy to begin with and your trading a kniwn quality player for a player, even if hs elite, not be all that.

You still aren't getting it.

 

[cohenzone]

It's bad for the program if Jalen stays for 4 years because he is one of the top point guard recruits in the country and has ideal size, speed, athleticism that the NBA looks for in point guards. If he stays all 4 years he didn't develop like he was supposed to and it's bad for Jalen and bad for UConn's future recruiting of point guards. The best schools reload with talent, they don't hope that an all word talent is slow in his development or never develops into what he was supposed to and is forced to stay 4 years. No, I didn't want Kemba coming back for his senior year, it would have been ridiculous for him to. He was the best player in the country as a junior, won us a title, his stock would never be higher and wanting him to stay would be selfish. Rudy was a guaranteed top 10 pick, Calhoun told him to go and I would have told him the same. Drummond wanted to come back but because the NCAA told us we couldn't play in the tournament the next season, Drummond decided to leave. If we were tourny eligible that season I would have wanted Andre to stay because he would have dominated and been the #1 pick.

You wanted Kemba to leave because in the current system it made sense for him to leave. Who is arguing against that? I'm saying what's good for Kemba is not the same as what's good for UConn basketball. Him making us a winner is what was good for us and us having him another year would surely been all to the good for us. Saying that if Adams is able to leave but chooses not to is bad for the program is nonsense. If he doesn't develop to where he can't leave early is a different issue. I hope that isn't too nuanced.

 

[2Husky]

the NCAA is built on the foundation of exploiting athletes, so you may be right that the school would be better served by further exploitation. I would like to see the system revised so the best thing for the student it also whats best for the school, and until that point I'm in favor of doing whats best for the athletes, even if it would hurt the school. And I generally think that schools aren't hurt by lottery picks leaving early, because potential recruits think that could be them if they went there.

 

[Chin Diesel]

You wanted Kemba to leave because in the current system it made sense for him to leave. Who is arguing against that? I'm saying what's good for Kemba is not the same as what's good for UConn basketball. Him making us a winner is what was good for us and us having him another year would surely been all to the good for us. Saying that if Adams is able to leave but chooses not to is bad for the program is nonsense. If he doesn't develop to where he can't leave early is a different issue. I hope that isn't too nuanced.

What you are intentionally not admitting is that what is good for UConn is to recruit, play and win in the current environment. And that is why you are getting dog piled.

Your only "point" is that in a hypothetical situation that doesn't exist, it would be better in your mind for UConn to have 4 year players who are dominant and could have left early for the pros but didn't.

What everyone else is saying to you is congratulations, your non-existent hypothetical situation hasn't existed for 20 years and isn't coming back.

What is good for UConn as a program is to have a few high impact players who play 1-2 years mixed in with 4 year solid players.

It's not complicated.

 

[superjohn]

It's clear you want college basketball to go back to a far away time where all the kids stay 4 years, do you also wish the freshman play on the freshman team? People that pointed out to you it's not a good thing for Jalen or UConn if he stays four years were told that we want UConn to be the exact same thing as Kentucky even though nobody said they wanted UConn to be all one and done. Pretty sure everyone just wants UConn to be what they have always been the past 25 years where the top kids leave early and the other kids play 4 years, you seem to want to return to the days before Calhoun.

 

[cohenzone]

You still aren't getting it.

See my post to you above. I totally get it. I just happen to think that because a player with the goods can leave as the system allows now, is not the great good for a PROGRAM that some seem to have been seduced into thinking by the cm current system.

Recruits are attracted to winning coaches. I seriously doubt that if Jalen Adams isn't able to leave early because he hasn't developed to NBA ready by at least his junior year, that the next elite recruit will trash us because of it. Beyond that, name all the elite recruits we got because of the kids who were drafted before senior year that would have been discouraged from coming here had every one of those kids decided to play for four years and, for arguments sake, we had won a few more NCs? The real consequence would have been that the number of available scholarships would have been less.

As I said, the fact that the system allows early departures is fooling a lot of people into thinking that the ability to leave early is better for a program than if the same player sticks around and the team has more real continuity and elite maturity. Better for the player, yes for those who actually get drafted in the first round. Better for the program? A total non sequitur argument.

 

[cohenzone]

What you are intentionally not admitting is that what is good for UConn is to recruit, play and win in the current environment. And that is why you are getting dog piled.

Your only "point" is that in a hypothetical situation that doesn't exist, it would be better in your mind for UConn to have 4 year players who are dominant and could have left early for the pros but didn't.

What everyone else is saying to you is congratulations, your non-existent hypothetical situation hasn't existed for 20 years and isn't coming back.

What is good for UConn as a program is to have a few high impact players who play 1-2 years mixed in with 4 year solid players.

It's not complicated.

You also don't follow what I'm saying and being dog piled by fallacious logic doesn't bother me. Why? Because your position is just as hypothetical as you claim mine to be. The idea that what is doom for recruiting elite players is the failure of a presumed elite player to leave early when they don't make the grade well enough to leave early is proved by exactly what?

Beyond that, if you want to tell me that recruits are put off because elite players decide for their own reasons to stay rather than leave, have at it. What you and yours totally won't answer is why it is better for a program to have an elite player leave early than to have a more regular continuity of terrific experienced, mature players. I know that's not what's been happening in a lot of places. It's coming off in this thread as if if Adams leaves early it is great for the program because he will have fulfilled his promise. What I'm saying is him fulfilling his promise means squat to the program if we haven't yet pulled it al together and that if the program has succeeded along with him or any other "elite" before their senior year, having them around as long as possible is good for winning. My attitude is I want a tough team every year and if my all star wants to stick around, that is a good thing. A bird in the hand as the saying goes.

 

[CAHUSKY]

You also don't follow what I'm saying and being dog piled by fallacious logic doesn't bother me. Why? Because your position is just as hypothetical as you claim mine to be. The idea that what is doom for recruiting elite players is the failure of a presumed elite player to leave early when they don't make the grade well enough to leave early is proved by exactly what?

Beyond that, if you want to tell me that recruits are put off because elite players decide for their own reasons to stay rather than leave, have at it. What you and yours totally won't answer is why it is better for a program to have an elite player leave early than to have a more regular continuity of terrific experienced, mature players. I know that's not what's been happening in a lot of places. It's coming off in this thread as if if Adams leaves early it is great for the program because he will have fulfilled his promise. What I'm saying is him fulfilling his promise means squat to the program if we haven't yet pulled it al together and that if the program has succeeded along with him or any other "elite" before their senior year, having them around as long as possible is good for winning. My attitude is I want a tough team every year and if my all star wants to stick around, that is a good thing. A bird in the hand as the saying goes.

In a perfect world, would it be great if players stayed in school 4 years like Alcindor, Walton and Duncan? Yes. However, in today's world, it doesn't work like that anymore. End of discussion. Both sides are correct.

 

[champs99and04]

I tend to agree with @CAHUSKY that there is merit to both sides here. Obviously, I can see where Ace is coming from, and I think he's right, but, it does highlight the flaws in the system when a kid staying for four years is considered a disappointment. It isn't a coincidence that the schools that produce the most one and dones are the ones that recruit at such a high level - after a certain point, it becomes self-perpetuating. It isn't complicated - when you have a dream, you want to realize it in as efficient a manner as possible. There are few schools that have churned out more quality pros than Marquette, yet they don't recruit at the level of Kentucky, Kansas, etc. Why? Their kids took the hiking trails to the pros while Kentucky's took the expressway. I'll get rich in one year instead of four any time.

I have no problem with kids leaving early for the NBA or any other professional league. That is their right, even if it is a decision that may be inconsistent with my interests as a college hoops fan. What I do wish, however, is that we could get to a point where a kid staying four years isn't an indictment on their development because the quality of competition is so high that sticking around is beneficial. Even when the student-athlete has devolved to a state of unprecedented mockery, I still sincerely believe that there is value in the college experience, and that many teenagers are not equipped to handle the mental rigors of the NBA.

I mean, we can send our best wishes to the early entrants without frowning at the Kris Dunn's and Marcus Smart's of the world who decide to return to school against all odds.

 

[JonnyRI]

Dear god. Please let's blow up this thread and start over. Uncle. Enough. Cohenzone, please tap out for the yard's sake.

 

[mauconnfan]

cohen was making an observation which it seemed many took to another level in order to complicate this thread. The CAHUSKY said it all best. Everyone is right and guess what...

We have Alterique Gilbert and no one else does!

Next

 

[UConnFranklin]

Thank you, MAUCONNFAN.

 

[Chin Diesel]

You also don't follow what I'm saying and being dog piled by fallacious logic doesn't bother me. Why? Because your position is just as hypothetical as you claim mine to be. The idea that what is doom for recruiting elite players is the failure of a presumed elite player to leave early when they don't make the grade well enough to leave early is proved by exactly what?

Beyond that, if you want to tell me that recruits are put off because elite players decide for their own reasons to stay rather than leave, have at it. What you and yours totally won't answer is why it is better for a program to have an elite player leave early than to have a more regular continuity of terrific experienced, mature players. I know that's not what's been happening in a lot of places. It's coming off in this thread as if if Adams leaves early it is great for the program because he will have fulfilled his promise. What I'm saying is him fulfilling his promise means squat to the program if we haven't yet pulled it al together and that if the program has succeeded along with him or any other "elite" before their senior year, having them around as long as possible is good for winning. My attitude is I want a tough team every year and if my all star wants to stick around, that is a good thing. A bird in the hand as the saying goes.

Many of us have clearly answered it. The current construct of having a few highly talented players who leave early sprinkled in with solid program players has won four championships and been to five FF. That is what a great program does. Even the 2014 team had Daniels leave early and Brimah has a good chance of leaving early.

On the flip side there isn't any evidence that a team at UConn or any other recent National Champ has been lead by all upperclassmen who stayed four years.