BYU - on the move?

[Pudge]

You mean that small, private, religious-affiliated, fourth ACC school in North Carolina that's never won anything doesn't deserve to be in a P5 more than us?

I see SWOFFORD as the Devil.

I can't explain it. But, the simple notion that Syracuse ("New York's College Team") or Boston College ("We control New England") has legs to gain market acceptance shows lack of understanding. Syracuse gets no radio/TV audience in Albany; let alone NYC. You needed clusters and I think UConn is part of that. Taking Universities because of a long dissipated Football Brand is just not smart. (hence this is why Rutgers went to a B1G with longer view)

What is the history of Cartels? You are not going to see entities without market power being protected. The leakage, seen in history, tells you that the Florida State's & Texas's will begin to agitate soon.

 

[MattMang23]

I'm waiting for the day Wake, Iowa state, Kansas State, northwestern, Purdue, Boston college, Mississippi St, rutgers, oregon st, vanderbilt, Texas tech, utah, and washington st are asked to step aside because they're not good enough brands or because they've never won in a sport people actually watch on tv.

Sadly it doesn't seem that it will happen. But I hope you're right pudge because even if we don't get into this super small cartel you're talking about, at least we would then get to play against those named above and that's a step up from Tulane.

Imagine a league with us, wake, bc, rutgers, northwestern, Purdue, vanderbilt, Cincinnati, memphis, Ucf, usf, and temple (or whichever american teams you wanna throw in there). Certainly not the B1G but certainly better than where we are. Although it would be those other teams' AAC moment.

 

[Pudge]

There are lots of ways to cut a deal.

Unlike the NATIONAL Football League, there's no ethic amongst Universities to be egalitarian. If there's ways to optimize their inflow of dollars, Texas & FSU won't think twice. Certainly we see that attitude with our ND guest. The ol' GOR and other clauses get overwhelmed when the money differential gets wide. And it will.

 

[Kolumbo]

It's pretty clear when "Markets" is one of the key variables. FSU brings Florida, a huge market. The ACC's most painful achilles heel, among others, is splitting revenue among 4 NC schools. That's a waste if every school is looking to maximize revenue, which apparently is the goal in amateur sports these days. I agree that the B1G and SEC will far outpace the others in terms of gross revenue.

 

[dayooper]

I think this is all pretty simple. And anyone from Iowa State (with their 61,000 seat football stadium, 14,000 seat Hoop Dome, etc) needs to see this roll out. The B1G and the SEC are going to take off in Gross Revenue. Far surpass the B12. Each variable is in their favor. (the Pac 12 has a unique problem - not enough content for the EST; but some great markets)

At some point, they will have their choice of Universities. They will do this because the structure of their contracts allow them to overpay for the ongoing markets they want.

As a UConn fan, I still see OUR value as the New England (even Northeastern US Public). We have play. I think we see the brick wall coming for lots of Universities in the ACC/B12 sphere (more the latter).

There are lots of ways to cut a deal.

Unlike the NATIONAL Football League, there's no ethic amongst Universities to be egalitarian. If there's ways to optimize their inflow of dollars, Texas & FSU won't think twice. Certainly we see that attitude with our ND guest. The ol' GOR and other clauses get overwhelmed when the money differential gets wide. And it will.

Where does this leave the PAC? Would a PAC school or few look to leave together if the differential was too wide?

 

[pj]

Where does this leave the PAC? Would a PAC school or few look to leave together if the differential was too wide?

Apart from Colorado to the B1G, geography almost prohibits realignment involving the PAC. And it's doubtful the B1G would raid the PAC given the historically friendly relations between the two.

 

[dayooper]

Apart from Colorado to the B1G, geography almost prohibits realignment involving the PAC. And it's doubtful the B1G would raid the PAC given the historically friendly relations between the two.

I'm not saying that it's happening or even a chance of it happening. Pudge, who has a very good rep here, made that statement that as the distance between the SEC/BIG and the rest of the college world continue to widen, schools would be more desparate to move. Does the PAC fall into this category as well?

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm not saying that it's happening or even a chance of it happening. Pudge, who has a very good rep here, made that statement that as the distance between the SEC/BIG and the rest of the college world continue to widen, schools would be more desparate to move. Does the PAC fall into this category as well?

I think it does. It's the best protected league by georgraphy alone. But aside from Oregon, UW and some USC fans, it really lacks any passionate fan base. Arizona basketball has fans. But I lived in NoCal long enough to realize that nobody cares about Stanford, Cal, Wash State, Oregon State, even UCLA is an afterthought in LA. Colorado and Utah have better fan bases than most Pac Schools.

 

[pj]

I'm not saying that it's happening or even a chance of it happening. Pudge, who has a very good rep here, made that statement that as the distance between the SEC/BIG and the rest of the college world continue to widen, schools would be more desparate to move. Does the PAC fall into this category as well?

They're at least a clear #3, well ahead of ACC and B12, and with markets that rival those of the B1G in size, and exceed the SEC's. Their problem is that B1G and SEC evening games reach national markets but Pac games are restricted to the west coast by time zones, so they'll never have the same out-of-region audience the B1G and SEC do. But they can figure out how to earn close to what the B1G and SEC do.

 

[CAHUSKY]

But I lived in NoCal long enough to realize that nobody cares about Stanford, Cal,

Define "cares". They both average 50,000 for football and have pretty strong basketball crowds. I lived in NoCal my entire life and while people aren't insane like in the south they have a pretty decent following. Which part of Nocal were you in?

 

[billybud]

Everyone has a theory....here is another from one of the internet deep thinkers:

"But what if ESPN has looked at the landscape, especially a landscape that might not include Big 10 football, or a landscape which involves paying way too much for Big 10 football in order to keep it away from FOX and triggering the most favored nation clauses in its SEC contract,

...and said, look ACC, if you stay on our primary platforms and don't form your own network, we'll renegotiate your deal to keep the money somewhat pegged to other conferences, you won't have to worry about carriage, you'll get more exposure, there will be less risk to you (and us by the way), and you can pursue the Digital platform applications for which you're already the leading content provider. In turn, we at the WWL don't have to worry about our Saturday inventory, we'll have plenty of games to choose from, and we won't have to broadcast Memphis vs East Carolina which the Power 5 have ensured will have no meaning whatsoever to the postseason..... on Saturday at 3:30 on ABC or pay the B1G more money than its worth."

 

[NEforceUConn]

I'm waiting for the day Wake, Iowa state, Kansas State, northwestern, Purdue, Boston college, Mississippi St, rutgers, oregon st, vanderbilt, Texas tech, utah, and washington st are asked to step aside because they're not good enough brands or because they've never won in a sport people actually watch on tv.
.[/QUOTE
.

I'm much more pragmatic, and I am waiting for the day that we celebrate our 5th NC

 

[MattMang23]

I'm much more pragmatic, and I am waiting for the day that we celebrate our 5th NC

I certainly don't expect my scenario to play out. Just hoping out loud.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Define "cares". They both average 50,000 for football and have pretty strong basketball crowds. I lived in NoCal my entire life and while people aren't insane like in the south they have a pretty decent following. Which part of Nocal were you in?

Silicon Valley, various towns including San Jose. San Jose State got as much coverage as Stanford or Cal. I'll admit that when they play each other it's a big game, and that Stanford's better on-field performances have probably helped. It's similar for UCLA in my opinion, there are so many people that yes they can put a crowd in the seats. But the community as a whole doesn't care and it isn't part of their identity. Not like it is in the south or midwest, or even in Connecticut for UConn basketball. In short, the percentage of the population that cares is low. This is true in NYC too in my view.

 

[CAHUSKY]

Silicon Valley, various towns including San Jose. San Jose State got as much coverage as Stanford or Cal. I'll admit that when they play each other it's a big game, and that Stanford's better on-field performances have probably helped. It's similar for UCLA in my opinion, there are so many people that yes they can put a crowd in the seats. But the community as a whole doesn't care and it isn't part of their identity. Not like it is in the south or midwest, or even in Connecticut for UConn basketball. In short, the percentage of the population that cares is low. This is true in NYC too in my view.

SJSU gets fewer than 15,000 per game, is a commuter school and literally no one cares about them. Their basketball is Rutgers like (under 1000pp). In the 25 years I lived there you were luck to get more than a 10 second update on a SJSU game unless you were listening to a san jose radio station. I get your point that, for the most part, bay area fans are relatively apathetic but to compare SJSU to Cal or Stanford is crazy.

(This is coming from someone whose uncle played at SJSU and has a bunch of friends that went there. They barely care).

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Silicon Valley, various towns including San Jose. San Jose State got as much coverage as Stanford or Cal. I'll admit that when they play each other it's a big game, and that Stanford's better on-field performances have probably helped. It's similar for UCLA in my opinion, there are so many people that yes they can put a crowd in the seats. But the community as a whole doesn't care and it isn't part of their identity. Not like it is in the south or midwest, or even in Connecticut for UConn basketball. In short, the percentage of the population that cares is low. This is true in NYC too in my view.

Silicon Valley is a lot like NYC. Its a global mecca for jobs that pulls in people from universities across the US and abroad. Thus, no one college can capture it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

SJSU gets fewer than 15,000 per game, is a commuter school and literally no one cares about them. Their basketball is Rutgers like (under 1000pp). In the 25 years I lived there you were luck to get more than a 10 second update on a SJSU game unless you were listening to a san jose radio station. I get your point that, for the most part, bay area fans are relatively apathetic but to compare SJSU to Cal or Stanford is crazy.

(This is coming from someone whose uncle played at SJSU and has a bunch of friends that went there. They barely care).

SJSU was a bad example. Maybe it was because I got the Mercury News. You are right that my SJSU friends are mostly Stanford fans. I will say that Santa Clara basketball got a fair amount of attention, if less than Stanford or Cal. But then they deserved it at the time, and were usually better than the other two.

By the way, the SF Giants used to draw under 10,000 a game when I was there, unless the Dodgers were in town, then they'd fill Candlestick. The apathy is real.

 

[CAHUSKY]

By the way, the SF Giants used to draw under 10,000 a game when I was there, unless the Dodgers were in town, then they'd fill Candlestick. The apathy is real.

The Giants have averaged right around 40,000 for theast 15 years and haven't been under 10,000 since I was in the 5th grade. Which is a heck of a long time ago as I'm damn near 50. Silicon Valley still full of plum and apricot orchards back then!
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/sfatte.shtml

 

[coachcap]

Does anyone else have the suspicion that eventually the B1G & PAC12 will merge? The PAC Network would be folded into the B1G Network & the resulting merger would not have to worry about content across 4 time zones.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The Giants have averaged right around 40,000 for theast 15 years and haven't been under 10,000 since I was in the 5th grade. Which is a heck of a long time ago as I'm damn near 50. Silicon Valley still full of plum and apricot orchards back then!
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/sfatte.shtml

I was there, 1996-1999. I remember buying upper deck tickets for like $10 and sitting in the lower boxes because they were so empty. But clearly, it varied widely by opponent. Dodgers were 60k plus every game. Average in 1996 when I went to a lot of games was 17,456. Given the big numbers for the Dodgers, and the capacity of Candlestick, that was pretty empty for a lot of opponents.

 

[CAHUSKY]

I was there, 1996-1999. I remember buying upper deck tickets for like $10 and sitting in the lower boxes because they were so empty. But clearly, it varied widely by opponent. Dodgers were 60k plus every game. Average in 1996 when I went to a lot of games was 17,456. Given the big numbers for the Dodgers, and the capacity of Candlestick, that was pretty empty for a lot of opponents.

Going to Candlestick, may she rest in peace, for a game was akin to being sent to prison for 4 hours. Without a doubt the worst stadium in baseball history. Tough to blame people for not wanting to go there. Since they moved to china basin they virtually sell out every game.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Going to Candlestick, may she rest in peace, for a game was akin to being sent to prison for 4 hours. Without a doubt the worst stadium in baseball history. Tough to blame people for not wanting to go there. Since they moved to china basin they virtually sell out every game.

I am a die hard Yankees fan and I firmly believe that AT&T Park is the baseball stadium in MLB and I have been to about a dozen venues.

 

[TruDomGopher]

Does anyone else have the suspicion that eventually the B1G & PAC12 will merge? The PAC Network would be folded into the B1G Network & the resulting merger would not have to worry about content across 4 time zones.

No.

 

[woomba]

That said, if Pac ever expands to 14, I think the Pac - Big Ten alliance topic might get reopened.

 

[Fishy]

Does anyone else have the suspicion that eventually the B1G & PAC12 will merge? The PAC Network would be folded into the B1G Network & the resulting merger would not have to worry about content across 4 time zones.

I'd say there's a greater chance of an asteroid flattening the entire country than there is of those two conferences merging.