OT - Lebron sticking up for Ray

[Kembacity]

Another misinformed opinion....please tell me which "star" ever won a title by themselves?....They all team up and have been doing it forever.

Jordan had Pippen( a top 50 player) plus Rodman, Kukoc, Grant, Paxon, etc....
Bird had McHale, Parrish, etc...
Kobe and Shaq...
Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Perkins, etc..
Duncan has had Robinson, Parker, Ginobli, , etc..
Olajuwon had Drexler
The Bad Boys Pistons


it goes on an on.

The only thing Lebron ever did wrong in going to Miami was announcing it on TV the way he did. He gave Cleveland 7 years to try and help him win a title and they rewarded him with Delonte West and Boobie Gibson.

Stopped reading your post once I saw that to you, every player on the Jordan bulls roster was a "star"... You call kukoc a "star", really? As in... Really? A star??

 

[UConn990411]

As a Celtics fan, I've completely gotten over the Ray Allen thing. It hurt at the time, but he did what he thought was best for him, which I can respect. And as a bigger UConn fan that Celtic fan, I'm glad he has the biggest shot in NBA history to add to his resume.

With that said, LeBron really needs to shut the duckk up. Ray chose (as was his right) to leave the Celtics in free agency - Pierce and KG would have elected to finish their careers here if it were up to them. But it wasn't.

Side with Ray's decision all you want, but you're foolish if you side with LeBron here.

 

[Penfield]

Something is askew there in terms of how TV market size is determined. Miami is the 4th largest urban area and I think the 7 or 8th largest metro in the country. It is a major market by any measure. TV markets can be misleading depending on what areas each so called market gets credited with.

Ya, after doing some more reading it seems like Miami's market size is kinda debated. It's definitely not a small city. I just think that with out the recent success they wouldn't be really be considered a strong NBA market. People seemed to be surprised that LeBron didn't pick one of the huge ones like New York or Chicago.

 

[nomar]

Do you know what a no trade clause is? Clearly, you do not. And maybe you are new to basketball or sports in general, but the Celts biggest rival is and shall always be LA. The Celtics had a rivalry with LeBron, if he leaves next year Boston fans won't remember which city the Heat represent.

Bottom line: KG is at best a hypocrite. He could have denied the trade and stayed loyal to Boston. ...which would have been stupid. Instead, he allowed the trade for one more realistic shot at a ring. So again, he did the same thing Ray did....just not lucky enough to end up with Lebron.

"Hypocrite at best." Haha. Thanks for the laugh. "Same thing." Another chuckle there.

I get it, you love Ray and you don't like KG. You can do both those things and still understand that Ray wanted to leave Boston while KG didn't look for an escape valve until the team ASKED him to waive his no-trade clause.

I mean, this is simple stuff here.

 

[SheemTheDream]

Do you know what a no trade clause is? Clearly, you do not. And maybe you are new to basketball or sports in general, but the Celts biggest rival is and shall always be LA. The Celtics had a rivalry with LeBron, if he leaves next year Boston fans won't remember which city the Heat represent.

Bottom line: KG is at best a hypocrite. He could have denied the trade and stayed loyal to Boston. ...which would have been stupid. Instead, he allowed the trade for one more realistic shot at a ring. So again, he did the same thing Ray did....just not lucky enough to end up with Lebron.

Its not loyalty if your team would rather have you leave. By waiving his no trade clause KG did what was best for the Celtics. Also, when did KG ever criticise ray for leaving? KG is one of the last few members of the "old" nba. He believes in rivalries, loyalty, and doesn't go hugging his opponents before the game. I don't have a problem with ray going but I could see how teammates could get emotional even if they knew that ray had a rough situation in Boston.

 

[nomar]

Its not loyalty if your team would rather have you leave. By waiving his no trade clause KG did what was best for the Celtics. Also, when did KG ever criticise ray for leaving? KG is one of the last few members of the "old" nba. He believes in rivalries, loyalty, and doesn't go hugging his opponents before the game. I don't have a problem with ray going but I could see how teammates could get emotional even if they knew that ray had a rough situation in Boston.

You don't get it. KG's a thug. And Rondo's a world-class . The Celtics are jerks. Understand now?

 

[Husky68]

Not sure why Ray owed Celtics anything. Did he pick to go there, thought he was traded. So he's on a team not of his choosing, where the guy with the ball isn't a guy you want to play with, the team would rather have someone else to replace you (based on numerous confirmed trade attempts) and you see yourself more now as role player with impact rather than a 35 minute guy. You look at landscape and take the best job you see available. Add money, location, coach, teammates and how your role could impact team and decide that's it. How you bitch about that is odd (in the screw loose odd meaning).
Why would any player go to another team when his contract is up, seems like could be many reasons and usually a combination. Odd to equate it to being greedy, so if Miami offered more money it wouldn't have been greedy? If they did offer more money would it be double greedy for money and championships? So I guess Reggie Jackson was greedy for signing with Yankees 'cause he got most money and a team most likely to be a champion?

 

[ctchamps]

By definition someone is greedy if they don't perform the way we prefer them to perform. But we are not greedy with this attitude!

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

No two situations are the same, Ray was constantly on the trading block the last couple of years and he and Rondo hated each other. Garnett and Pierce loved their situation because they had security and always got the ball in their spots to be successful, Ray didn't have either of these things.

You are, quite simply, out of your damn mind. Pierce was constantly the subject of trade rumors.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

I don't think that Ray Allen is a jerk for "leaving Boston"... I think he's a jerk because he already had a ring, and he left Boston for Miami. Its a low move, the same way Lebrons move of teaming up with Wade/Bosh was low. All the old guard said the same thing, if you are the best, you want to beat the best, not team up with the best so you don't have to face them anymore.

I can't understand your logic at all here, are you saying because ray already had a ring he should have just said ok I'm good and waited to retire? Your legacy in pro sports is determined by a lot of factors, but the number of rings you have is the most important. Regardless of who the player is, if they leave city A for city B, and city B wins the title, it was the right move regardless of any other factors.

 

[J-dog]

bottom line... The Celtics were not showing any loyalty to Ray Allen with all of the potential trades they were working, so why would he want to stay? He found the best situation with a team that wanted him... Who can fault him for that?

 

[uconndennis]

Stopped reading your post once I saw that to you, every player on the Jordan bulls roster was a "star"... You call kukoc a "star", really? As in... Really? A star??

really? that's the guy you pick on in that....fine, I dont care..throw Kukoc out...and of course he wasnt a "star"....throw the rest of the roster out, for all I care

Jordan still had Pippen and Rodman...hall of famers!!!!

I dont even care for Lebron, but the bitching and moaning that he chose to play with 1 other star and 1 other very good player is utterly ridiculous. For sake...your own Celtics had "The Big Three"...i dont see you crying about how they put that together

 

[SheemTheDream]

You don't get it. KG's a thug. And Rondo's a world-class . The Celtics are jerks. Understand now?

D-wade is a thug, so what? Both him and KG are lauded as great teammates. I think the rondo issue was more important to ray's decision.

 

[UCHuskies08]

Oh my god, you side with Lebron here?

If you don't understand how these are 2 completely different situations, you're an idiot.

Ray Allen chose to leave as a free agent and sign for less money than he could have made in order to play with the Heat (without a doubt his former team's #1 enemy) and have the best chance for a ring.
KG and Pierce left Boston by being traded... Pierce likely would have rather retired in green and white, KG had a no trade clause that he waived ended up waiving, but understand that it wasnt as if Pierce and KG came to Ainge and asked to be traded... They didn't ditch the team, the team moved in a different direction, which they understood, and would obviously rather not deal with a rebuild and be the focus of the team while aging and losing their prowess.

Ray Allen is a mushroom cap for going to the Heat, and I completely idolized Rayray growing up. Had he not won a ring with the celtics, he could go to the Heat and I wouldn't fault him for it. However, once you win a ring, taking less money to go to the top contender (or even A top contender) makes you a greedy , which is what I consider Ray from that move.

Watching Heat games, I 100% root for Ray to take and make every shot, I don't dislike the guy, but that was a greedy, whiny, petty move he made there.

What a piece of s*** post this is. Somehow taking less money makes you greedy. Wow. Classic butthurt Boston sports fan.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

You are, quite simply, out of your damn mind. Pierce was constantly the subject of trade rumors.

So was Ray.

 

[Gurleyman]

Oh my god, you side with Lebron here?

If you don't understand how these are 2 completely different situations, you're an idiot.

Ray Allen chose to leave as a free agent and sign for less money than he could have made in order to play with the Heat (without a doubt his former team's #1 enemy) and have the best chance for a ring.
KG and Pierce left Boston by being traded... Pierce likely would have rather retired in green and white, KG had a no trade clause that he waived ended up waiving, but understand that it wasnt as if Pierce and KG came to Ainge and asked to be traded... They didn't ditch the team, the team moved in a different direction, which they understood, and would obviously rather not deal with a rebuild and be the focus of the team while aging and losing their prowess.

Ray Allen is a mushroom cap for going to the Heat, and I completely idolized Rayray growing up. Had he not won a ring with the celtics, he could go to the Heat and I wouldn't fault him for it. However, once you win a ring, taking less money to go to the top contender (or even A top contender) makes you a greedy , which is what I consider Ray from that move.

Watching Heat games, I 100% root for Ray to take and make every shot, I don't dislike the guy, but that was a greedy, whiny, petty move he made there.

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the Celtics getting Jason Terry before Ray left? Terry wasn't brought in to play 8 mpg backing up Rondo, as some C's fans tried to portray it. He was brought in to score.

I looked at it as a business decision - frankly Terry was probably a better fit, since he could create off the dribble better than Ray at that stage of his career and the Cs needed another breakdown the D guy. And they couldn't afford to wait and not have a scoring 2 guard at all. Once Terry was on board and Ray was looking at possibly slipping to the fringes of the rotation if Bradley moved into the starting lineup, the best business decision for him was clearly Miami (since Crawford was with the Clips at that point).

Sound business decisions by both, if you ask me. The Celtics weren't whiny greedy s for not waiting for Ray to decide on a deal. They have a business to run. Likewise, Ray wasn't any of things for weighing his options, and taking the best one he had.

 

[Kembacity]

I can't understand your logic at all here, are you saying because ray already had a ring he should have just said ok I'm good and waited to retire? Your legacy in pro sports is determined by a lot of factors, but the number of rings you have is the most important. Regardless of who the player is, if they leave city A for city B, and city B wins the title, it was the right move regardless of any other factors.

That's absolutely not true. No one considers Robert Horry a perennial Allstar, and no one will think that way of Derek Fisher no matter how many championships he played in.

I don't think Ray Allen should have waited to retire, but him going to the heat the first chance he got just basically is a slap in the face to the team that gave him the opportunity to win his first title. So maybe Ray is such a delicate baby that he felt so wronged by the celtics as an organization so he made that move, which by definition would be petty.

As I've said, I didn't hate on ray for leaving boston, only for the team he went to which represents all that is horrible with the NBA. The second they signed him, lebron and wade start acting like the biggest Ray Allen fans in the world. If he was still a Celtic and he broke his leg in half like Kevin ware, they'd mock him like they did Dirk Nowitzki.

Also... Ray whined about the fact that the celtics signed Jason terry, yet he went right to the team that already had a knock down 3 point shooter in mike Miller. So basically he was the Jason terry to mike miller, it's not like he whined about playing time and went to a team with good pieces but lacking a good SG or lacking a great 3point shooter.

 

[Kembacity]

really? that's the guy you pick on in that....fine, I dont care..throw Kukoc out...and of course he wasnt a "star"....throw the rest of the roster out, for all I care

Jordan still had Pippen and Rodman...hall of famers!!!!

I dont even care for Lebron, but the bitching and moaning that he chose to play with 1 other star and 1 other very good player is utterly ridiculous. For sake...your own Celtics had "The Big Three"...i dont see you crying about how they put that together

I've already responded to this moronic defense about the heat vs the celtics big 3's. The celtics big 3 was formed via trades, and contained 3 aging stars who were still effective, but past their primes.

The heat were built via free agency and guys reducing their pay so the team could sign tons of stars and basically just create an Allstar team. Their 3 stars were young and still are young. Maybe wade was slightly past his prime due to his knee troubles, but lebron and bosh were in their prime. 2 aspects that make the big 3s totally different

 

[ctchamps]

That's absolutely not true. No one considers Robert Horry a perennial Allstar, and no one will think that way of Derek Fisher no matter how many championships he played in.

I don't think Ray Allen should have waited to retire, but him going to the heat the first chance he got just basically is a slap in the face to the team that gave him the opportunity to win his first title. So maybe Ray is such a delicate baby that he felt so wronged by the celtics as an organization so he made that move, which by definition would be petty.

As I've said, I didn't hate on ray for leaving boston, only for the team he went to which represents all that is horrible with the NBA. The second they signed him, lebron and wade start acting like the biggest Ray Allen fans in the world. If he was still a Celtic and he broke his leg in half like Kevin ware, they'd mock him like they did Dirk Nowitzki.

Also... Ray whined about the fact that the celtics signed Jason terry, yet he went right to the team that already had a knock down 3 point shooter in mike Miller. So basically he was the Jason terry to mike miller, it's not like he whined about playing time and went to a team with good pieces but lacking a good SG or lacking a great 3point shooter.

Allen did what he felt was best for him. His move obviously was disturbing to you! I don't know if Ray was overly sensitive or not but I'm getting the impression that because you hate the Heat you are letting your emotions take over, which is making you act similar to the suggestion you have put on Allen!

I have a similar distaste to teams "buying" a franchise. The Heat didn't buy a franchise imo. Three super players chose to play together. They did so because they liked one another and felt the combination gave a great chance for success. Is that unfair? I don't feel that way. The sports world treats players like commodities and not human beings. So it doesn't bother me when the players can treat the franchises like commodities.

 

[UChusky916]

Some of the worst posts Ive ever seen on this board are in this thread... and THAT´S saying something!

Kembacity... you must be 12 years old or something. Your understanding of the whole situation reeks of immaturity and just plain stupidity.

Celtics homers can´t understand that Ray simply did what was best for him. End of story. Here´s the facts of Ray´s departure...

-Ray is an NBA veteran and had the right to sign with whoever he pleased.
-Ray had been traded multiple times in his career and was a constant subject of trade rumors in Boston. He didn´t want that to happen again by staying there.
-Rondo and Allen didn´t get along. Rondo wasn´t getting Allen the ball in the right spots.
-Celtics only offered Ray MORE money than the Heat AFTER he was linked to the Heat. The Celtics initial proposal to Ray was laughable. Ray knew he was disrespected by the offer and was smart enough to realize that throwing money at someone in desperation is not a sign of respect.

Delusional Celtics homers here need to put their NBA allegiance aside because they are coming across as ridiculous. No, I´m not a Heat fan.

Ray did what he had to do. And he helped his team win a championship. Good for him.

 

[nomar]

D-wade is a thug, so what? Both him and KG are lauded as great teammates. I think the rondo issue was more important to ray's decision.

I think you missed my point. Everybody who's trashing the Celtics...doesn't like the Celtics.

 

[nomar]

Some of the worst posts Ive ever seen on this board are in this thread... and THAT´S saying something!

Kembacity... you must be 12 years old or something. Your understanding of the whole situation reeks of immaturity and just plain stupidity.

Celtics homers can´t understand that Ray simply did what was best for him. End of story. Here´s the facts of Ray´s departure...

-Ray is an NBA veteran and had the right to sign with whoever he pleased.
-Ray had been traded multiple times in his career and was a constant subject of trade rumors in Boston. He didn´t want that to happen again by staying there.
-Rondo was a ty PG and by many accounts a ty person. They obviously didn´t get along.
-Celtics only offered Ray MORE money than the Heat AFTER he was linked to the Heat. The Celtics initial proposal to Ray was laughable. Ray knew he was disrespected by the offer and was smart enough to realize that throwing money at someone in desperation is not a sign of respect.

Delusional Celtics homers here need to put their NBA allegiance aside because they are coming across as ridiculous. No, I´m not a Heat fan.

Ray did what he had to do. And he helped his team win a championship. Good for him.

I'd like to know which "Celtics homers" you're talking about, specifically?

I think most of the Celtics fans here (me, Gurleyman) understand Ray's decision. The fact that we also understand why a guy like Pierce (who was on the block more times than Ray was, and that's a fact) was a little peeved when Ray left doesn't mean we're "homers." It means we're not UConn-only homers who can't see past defending our binkie Walter Ray. Ray made a business decision. It turned out to be right for him. I'm happy for him.

BTW, your "facts" are all opinions and conjecture except for #1. There are two sides to every story and there are a lot of people who'll never see both sides of this one. (I love when one textbook homer calls somebody else a homer because they disagree with him.)

 

[UChusky916]

Celtics fans are always so quick to say Ray took less money to go to the Heat.

What they forget to mention is that the Celtics initial offer was laughable and less than what the Heat offered later. Only after the Heat made an offer did the Celtics offer more.

Good for Ray realizing the games they were playing. He was tired of being disrespected.

 

[UChusky916]

I'd like to know which "Celtics homers" you're talking about, specifically?

I think most of the Celtics fans here (me, Gurleyman) understand Ray's decision. The fact that we also understand why a guy like Pierce (who was on the block more times than Ray was, and that's a fact) was a little peeved when Ray left doesn't mean we're "homers." It means we're not UConn-only homers who can't see past defending our binkie Walter Ray. Ray made a business decision. It turned out to be right for him. I'm happy for him.

BTW, your "facts" are all opinions and conjecture except for #1. There are two sides to every story and there are a lot of people who'll never see both sides of this one. (I love when one textbook homer calls somebody else a homer because they disagree with him.)

I´m not a Heat fan so I´m not a homer one way or another. I have lived in New England all my life and have come to know how delusional certain Boston sports fans can be.

 

[Gurleyman]

That's absolutely not true. No one considers Robert Horry a perennial Allstar, and no one will think that way of Derek Fisher no matter how many championships he played in.

I don't think Ray Allen should have waited to retire, but him going to the heat the first chance he got just basically is a slap in the face to the team that gave him the opportunity to win his first title. So maybe Ray is such a delicate baby that he felt so wronged by the celtics as an organization so he made that move, which by definition would be petty.

As I've said, I didn't hate on ray for leaving boston, only for the team he went to which represents all that is horrible with the NBA. The second they signed him, lebron and wade start acting like the biggest Ray Allen fans in the world. If he was still a Celtic and he broke his leg in half like Kevin ware, they'd mock him like they did Dirk Nowitzki.

Also... Ray whined about the fact that the celtics signed Jason terry, yet he went right to the team that already had a knock down 3 point shooter in mike Miller. So basically he was the Jason terry to mike miller, it's not like he whined about playing time and went to a team with good pieces but lacking a good SG or lacking a great 3point shooter.

Teams play with more than one three-point shooter on the floor, you know. "Three-point shooter" isn't a position. Miller is much too old and creaky to play the 2 - which is Ray's primary position. Miller plays the 3 and sometimes acts as a stretch 4 when the Heat go really small (as does Battier). Terry was direct competition for minutes backing up a Rondo-Bradley backcourt.

He also didn't go to the Heat the first chance he got. He came to the C's with a three-year deal and played five. First time his contract was up, he signed on for two more.

Nothing delicate about what Ray did. You're projecting your own feelings on to him.