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Let Common Sense Prevail

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Husky25

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Still going on about this? From jumpstreet the only people who didn't think the Pats did anything intentionally had an IQ below 20. The science presented by Belichick has been debunked. Belichick went from knowing nothing about the handling of the balls before the game to giving a detailed soliliquy about the process 2 days later. It's comical. They, specifically Brady, did this. How anyone could question it is beyond comprehension.

The funny thing is those who have already convicted the Patriots have done so based on innuendo and unsubstantiated reports from unnamed NFL sources. In other words, circumstantial at best.

It doesn't matter anyway. The Patriots will forever be guilty to those who have already convicted them, regardless of what the NFL concludes.
 
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The funny thing is those who have already convicted the Patriots have done so based on innuendo and unsubstantiated reports from unnamed NFL sources. In other words, circumstantial at best.

It doesn't matter anyway. The Patriots will forever be guilty to those who have already convicted them, regardless of what the NFL concludes.

This isn't a court of law. Someone deflated the footballs. The science behind the theory that weather played a role is laughable to everyone in the real world. Forget innuendo and unsubstantiated reports. Use some friggin common sense.

Who benefited?

Was there motive?

Has Brady stated in the past that he prefers deflated balls? (insert joke here)

Do the Pats have a history of bending the rules? Have they been fined for anything in the past? Is there a pattern?

Yeah let's use some friggin common sense.
 

Husky25

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This isn't a court of law.

Which is just the way you like it. but there are a dozen other theories just as simple and plausible as the "Brady Cheated" meme saying he did not. The burden of proof is much lower in the court of public opinion.

I'm not saying that Brady and the Patriots are innocent, but I don't think they are guilty of cheating. I think at least one other party is more culpable than the NFL is letting on.

The Peter King/Chris Mortenson/Jay Glazer reports read like their source is Simone from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. No one is taking responsibility for the reports and there are enough buffers and hearsay to reduce everyone's culpability to zero regardless of their potential responsibility.
 

pj

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We don't know by how much the balls were underinflated. But the NFL knows.

A small underinflation could have been the result of taking the balls from room temperature to cold air. A large underinflation would have to be tampering.

Why don't we let the investigation play out before jumping to conclusions.
 

pj

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confused-face.jpg

Just objecting to the idiot who blamed the referees. Either the Patriots were guilty or no one was guilty. The refs were blameless.
 
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Serrano is using Fruit Loop's logic. Assume its what Fatso is saying too, but haven't heard him this week.

Here is all we need to know.....What was the PSI reading of the Patriots and Colts footballs pregame? What was the PSI reading for the same balls at half time?

I will have no problem hammering the Pats if that reveals anything. Until then, this is all crap.
 

Husky25

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Just objecting to the idiot who blamed the referees. Either the Patriots were guilty or no one was guilty. The refs were blameless.
So the refs are infallible because they say they are? That makes a ton of sense.
 
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Serrano is using Fruit Loop's logic. Assume its what Fatso is saying too, but haven't heard him this week.

Here is all we need to know.....What was the PSI reading of the Patriots and Colts footballs pregame? What was the PSI reading for the same balls at half time?

I will have no problem hammering the Pats if that reveals anything. Until then, this is all crap.

Yes the NFL is investigating the Patriots because the PSI on their footballs were exactly the same pregame, halftime, and postgame. Makes sense.
 
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From what I've gathered on this, which isn't much, both Tom Brady and Peyton Manning after the 2006 season, were vocal and instrumental in creating rules changes regarding handling of game balls, such that the way that footballs are handled now exists. My initial thought, and I wrote it somewhere, was the rule as it exists today - was some archaic rule that dates back to when football teams actually had tight budgets and the numbers of balls provided by each team was something that was actually considered - much like tight budget youth sports. that was incorrect - the rule exists today, because of lobbying led primarily by Tom Brady and Peyton Manning after the 2006 season. NFL QB's do indeed like to have control over the condition of the balls they handle, and for the past 7 years, they've had more control and influence to do that, than ever.

My other position on this, I still hold firmly that I wrote about before. The Patriots, comparably across the NFL, have enjoyed very low rates of fumbling since 2006. There is no doubt that ball that is inflated at 10.5 lbs pressure or less, is easier to squeeze and hold onto, than a ball that is regulation pressure. What seems to have begun by the whims of the QB in handling the ball, seems to have had greater effect, and whether or not the effect on fumbling became a purpose for the intention of deflating game balls or not?

Debateable, it could have been entirely unintended and unknown consequence - of cheating the rules by the QB for his own purposes. But I find it very hard to believe that nobody internally for the Patriots put the two things together - a deflated ball and decreased fumbling.
 

CL82

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This isn't a court of law. Someone deflated the footballs. The science behind the theory that weather played a role is laughable to everyone in the real world. Forget innuendo and unsubstantiated reports. Use some friggin common sense.

Who benefited?

Was there motive?

Has Brady stated in the past that he prefers deflated balls? (insert joke here)

Do the Pats have a history of bending the rules? Have they been fined for anything in the past? Is there a pattern?

Yeah let's use some friggin common sense.
You could not be more right! Let's throw out the legal system and reject science and instead just decide "the truth" base on our own prejudices. I mean what could possibly go wrong with that?
inquisition.jpg
 
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You could not be more right! Let's throw out the legal system and reject science and instead just decide "the truth" base on our own prejudices. I mean what could possibly go wrong with that?
inquisition.jpg

Um, first, this isn't a legal case, so not sure how our legal system would even be relevant. Second, I'm not rejecting science, I'm embracing it. The science behind the ball deflating due to natural phenomenon has been panned by actual scientists.

So other than this not being a legal case and the science supporting my theory, you have a good point.
 

CL82

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Um, first, this isn't a legal case, so not sure how our legal system would even be relevant. Second, I'm not rejecting science, I'm embracing it. The science behind the ball deflating due to natural phenomenon has been panned by actual scientists.

So other than this not being a legal case and the science supporting my theory, you have a good point.
You mean the part where gently I mocked you basically pulling your opinion out of your butt? Yeah, I thought so too.
 
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Just objecting to the idiot who blamed the referees. Either the Patriots were guilty or no one was guilty. The refs were blameless.
That was my point, and if it wasn't obvious to you from the context you really shouldn't be calling anyone an idiot.
 

pj

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That was my point, and if it wasn't obvious to you from the context you really shouldn't be calling anyone an idiot.

Yes, I agreed with you, it was the other guy who was the idiot.
 
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From what I've gathered on this, which isn't much, both Tom Brady and Peyton Manning after the 2006 season, were vocal and instrumental in creating rules changes regarding handling of game balls, such that the way that footballs are handled now exists. My initial thought, and I wrote it somewhere, was the rule as it exists today - was some archaic rule that dates back to when football teams actually had tight budgets and the numbers of balls provided by each team was something that was actually considered - much like tight budget youth sports. that was incorrect - the rule exists today, because of lobbying led primarily by Tom Brady and Peyton Manning after the 2006 season. NFL QB's do indeed like to have control over the condition of the balls they handle, and for the past 7 years, they've had more control and influence to do that, than ever.

My other position on this, I still hold firmly that I wrote about before. The Patriots, comparably across the NFL, have enjoyed very low rates of fumbling since 2006. There is no doubt that ball that is inflated at 10.5 lbs pressure or less, is easier to squeeze and hold onto, than a ball that is regulation pressure. What seems to have begun by the whims of the QB in handling the ball, seems to have had greater effect, and whether or not the effect on fumbling became a purpose for the intention of deflating game balls or not?

Debateable, it could have been entirely unintended and unknown consequence - of cheating the rules by the QB for his own purposes. But I find it very hard to believe that nobody internally for the Patriots put the two things together

- a deflated ball and decreased fumbling.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/deflat...-why-patriots-don-t-fumble-003107565-nfl.html
 

Chin Diesel

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I heard the best explanation of the pros/cons of underinflating the ball this morning on Steve Czaban on Yahoo sports radio. They had one of the guys from sports science on who did all the computations.

Bottom line? Deflating a ball down to 10.5 psi reduces weight by about the weight of a single dollar bill. The decrease in weight will result in a lighter ball arriving about 1/1000th of a second later due to the lighter mass of the ball. 1/1000th of a second translates in to about 1" of differential distant travelled.

The sports science guy made the point that the balls being moist from the weather (just damp, not soaking wet) has about 1/2 ounce difference in weight and that the weight differential from the weather was about 50 times greater than any differential in pressure.

Final analysis from the sports science guy is the receiver's ability to "softly" catch the ball with his hands has a higher impact than anything regarding inflation #'s.

When pressed for an explanation as to how all the Pats' balls were underflated and Colts' were normal he went in to full scientific theory. Most likely explanation is that the refs don't put a calibrated needle in to each ball meaning there isn't any proof of having a known valid starting pressure.
 

Husky25

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Most likely explanation is that the refs don't put a calibrated needle in to each ball meaning there isn't any proof of having a known valid starting pressure.

That can't be right. Those of us who think the NFL acted too hasty with regard to the officials and believe it is not unreasonable that there is even the remotest of possibilities that they might have some culpability are idiots. :rolleyes:
 
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I heard the best explanation of the pros/cons of underinflating the ball this morning on Steve Czaban on Yahoo sports radio. They had one of the guys from sports science on who did all the computations.

Bottom line? Deflating a ball down to 10.5 psi reduces weight by about the weight of a single dollar bill. The decrease in weight will result in a lighter ball arriving about 1/1000th of a second later due to the lighter mass of the ball. 1/1000th of a second translates in to about 1" of differential distant travelled.

The sports science guy made the point that the balls being moist from the weather (just damp, not soaking wet) has about 1/2 ounce difference in weight and that the weight differential from the weather was about 50 times greater than any differential in pressure.

Final analysis from the sports science guy is the receiver's ability to "softly" catch the ball with his hands has a higher impact than anything regarding inflation #'s.

When pressed for an explanation as to how all the Pats' balls were underflated and Colts' were normal he went in to full scientific theory. Most likely explanation is that the refs don't put a calibrated needle in to each ball meaning there isn't any proof of having a known valid starting pressure.

They spent a lot of time and energy missing the point.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/deflat...-why-patriots-don-t-fumble-003107565-nfl.html
 
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I would say that the Patriots not fumbling is similar to why Volvo's are safer than Camaro's and why Volvo drivers get in fewer accidents than Camaro drivers.
Properly inflated tires?

Pats fans can ignore the statistical evidence in that link, the video footage (can't help but laugh again at the post about "chain of custody"), and the fact their footballs were deflated, but like Ray Rice and his wife, we didn't need to see the video inside that elevator to know what happened.
 

Chin Diesel

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Properly inflated tires?

Pats fans can ignore the statistical evidence in that link, the video footage (can't help but laugh again at the post about "chain of custody"), and the fact their footballs were deflated, but like Ray Rice and his wife, we didn't need to see the video inside that elevator to know what happened.

No, not properly inflated tires. People who buy Volvos tend to prioritize a car's safety rating and drive more defensively than most other drivers. So, when you combine a car's safety ratings that are attractive to drivers who drive defensively they get in fewer crashes.

Teams value certain player attributes. Each team has to prioritize them. Patriots place a high value on holding on to the ball. It's not different than screening for players who don't commit penalties or players who don't miss games due to injuries.

Cross comparing sports it would be comparable to baseball teams who value players who take a lot of pitches, basketball teams who value low turnover or high FT shooters, etc.

It's impossible to be an honest person and look at the evidence and find anything conclusive about ball pressure and turnover rates. Are the Packers the highest fumbling team since Rodgers admits to overinflating the ball?
 

Husky25

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I do love when people cherry pick quotes...

"Matthews admits he’s a Patriots fan, though he insisted, “This has nothing to do with Patriots.”
His own portrayal of the statistics, however, doesn’t differ all that largely from Sharp’s. Matthews gives the Patriots’ fumbles-per-100-carries from 2007 through 2014 as 0.63, and the next best team is St. Louis (a dome team) with 0.71. The league average is 1.0. That still sets the Pats apart, if not as starkly. It still sets 2006 as a demarcation point."
 
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No, not properly inflated tires. People who buy Volvos tend to prioritize a car's safety rating and drive more defensively than most other drivers. So, when you combine a car's safety ratings that are attractive to drivers who drive defensively they get in fewer crashes.

Teams value certain player attributes. Each team has to prioritize them. Patriots place a high value on holding on to the ball. It's not different than screening for players who don't commit penalties or players who don't miss games due to injuries.

Cross comparing sports it would be comparable to baseball teams who value players who take a lot of pitches, basketball teams who value low turnover or high FT shooters, etc.

It's impossible to be an honest person and look at the evidence and find anything conclusive about ball pressure and turnover rates. Are the Packers the highest fumbling team since Rodgers admits to overinflating the ball?

Except everyone plays with the same football. Well, they're supposed to.

Outside of the kicking game, there is no volvo football and camaro football. And none of that addresses the sudden change in fumble statistics that coincides with the teams being given control of their own footballs.
 
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