Dennis Dodd: Notre Dame should join a conference sooner rather than later

[SubbaBub]

Why the hell would any of the other leagues care about a Big 12 meltdown?

They wouldn't except it would affect them and their media deal.

So you have to ask, would they want the B12 to break up or not? The ACC, no. The rest, I think it depends. Would having 10 free agent programs hurt or help their bottom line. If the B12 had to expand would they be able to poach any P5 members?

 

[CallMeBruce]

They wouldn't except it would affect them and their media deal.

So you have to ask, would they want the B12 to break up or not? The ACC, no. The rest, I think it depends. Would having 10 free agent programs hurt or help their bottom line. If the B12 had to expand would they be able to poach any P5 members?

It would affect them and their media deal insofar as making "power conference" content more scarce, making them more valuable.

 

[SubbaBub]

It would affect them and their media deal insofar as making "power conference" content more scarce, making them more valuable.

Not if you're Fox. There are two sides to the media deals. The P5 can't move without both partners being happy. They are all intertwined financially.

Which I why I don't think the B12 will collapses and why I think this year's B12 champ gets the VIP treatment if it's a close call for the last spot.

To paraphrase Apollo Creed's cornerman, most people don't know it's a show. They think it's a real fight. NCAA Football isn't a real merit based competition, it's a show.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Not if you're Fox. There are two sides to the media deals. The P5 can't move without both partners being happy. They are all intertwined financially.

Which I why I don't think the B12 will collapses and why I think this year's B12 champ gets the VIP treatment if it's a close call for the last spot.

To paraphrase Apollo Creed's cornerman, most people don't know it's a show. They think it's a real fight. NCAA Football isn't a real merit based competition, it's a show.

FOX doesn't have the pull to get TCU or Baylor into the CFP undeserved, and certainly neither of those teams has the cache to change anyone's minds. Maybe if Oklahoma wins the Big 12, but they're going to be just as hamstrung by the lack of a CCG as they were last year.

 

[pj]

All the B12 needs is for the ACC to resume its habit of mediocrity. The ability of Florida State and then Ohio State to win national championships brightened the luster of their conferences. Now the perception is that the B12 may be the weakest conference. But an ACC losing streak will soon enough make people feel the ACC champ should be odd man out.

 

[Nostical]

My guess is that if it was Texas and Oklahoma that finished 11-1 in the B12 (and not TCU/Baylor), one or possibly both probably get in as the 4th team last year. The Frogs and Bears name cache was lacking, and with humans making the selections, that had to have been a factor, even if only subconsciously

This is spot on. Not all 12-1 resumes are factored by a human committee equally. There are brand preferences that go beyond the mere won-loss record. It's why wine tastings are done with hidden labels on the bottles.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

This is spot on. Not all 12-1 resumes are factored by a human committee equally. There are brand preferences that go beyond the mere won-loss record. It's why wine tastings are done with hidden labels on the bottles.

I agree an one loss Oklahoma or a 1 loss Texas would have had a better shot getting into the playoffs. That said, in 2014, who would have been left out? While Florida St was viewed as the weakest of the 4, no one is going to leave out the undefeated, reigning national champion, ACC conference winner from the playoffs. Alabama was ranked #1 going in, won its conference championship in the toughest conference (or so ESPN) says and is one of the top 5 college football brands. No one was leaving them even with their 1 loss at a ranked Ole Miss team. Ohio St, which had the 'weakest' loss of the 3 teams with a loss, also won its conference championship, comes from the B1G, which carries more weight than the XII, and is also a top football brand. Oregon with a loss to an OK Arizona team was considered the most explosive team and while the XII maybe greater or equal to the PAC in the conference football pecking order, also won its championship. Plus, it does not help that the two XII team vying for a playoff spot combined had 1 marquee win that that was Baylor beating TCU with decent wins over K State and Oklahoma. The two schools combined non-conference schedule featured 1 P5 team (Minnesota), 3 G5 schools (SMU twice and Buffalo), and 2 FCS schools. If a school is in a conference fighting an uphill battle to get a playoff spot because their conference does not offer a championship game, then the school must get national attention and doing so requires a competitive football schedule.

 

[Yawkey Way]

So long as ND is able to unilaterally negotiate a great financial football broadcast contract with a TV Network for itself , I can see no logical and /or financial reason why ND would want to join any conference that would compel it to share its football generated profit revenues with others in that league.

 

[whaler11]

So long as ND is able to unilaterally negotiate a great financial football broadcast contract with a TV Network for itself , I can see no logical and /or financial reason why ND would want to join any conference that would compel it to share its football generated profit revenues with others in that league.

Well for one thing the Big Ten teams are going to have higher revenue than ND - how is that for a fiancial reason?

 

[uconndogs]

So long as ND is able to unilaterally negotiate a great financial football broadcast contract with a TV Network for itself , I can see no logical and /or financial reason why ND would want to join any conference that would compel it to share its football generated profit revenues with others in that league.

What you meant to say is ND independently negotiates a TV contract. It does not negotiate unilaterally with the networks. The networks have a say in the negotiations.

That issue aside, if access to the play off and NCG come into question then arguably NDs market appeal is impaired. Of course, Whaler's point speaks for itself.

 

[TerryD]

Well for one thing the Big Ten teams are going to have higher revenue than ND - how is that for a fiancial reason?

ND knew this when it agreed to the ACC deal. The NBC contract keeps ND football out of a conference. That is the important thing to ND folks, not making the most TV money.

If that were the goal, ND would have joined the Big Ten back in 2010.

 

[whaler11]

ND knew this when it agreed to the ACC deal. The NBC contract keeps ND football out of a conference. That is the important thing to ND folks, not making the most TV money.

If that were the goal, ND would have joined the Big Ten back in 2010.

Oh thank God you were here. BC and ND fans in the same thread is a huge relief.

And no kidding - but our resident BC dunce said financial reasons so I gave him one.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Well for one thing the Big Ten teams are going to have higher revenue than ND - how is that for a fiancial reason?

The ND and several others have stated that independence is a higher priority than money (within reason of course) for ND. So the fact that a given conference can provide more revenue to each team that ND can get on its own will not provide enough impetus on its own for ND to change its ways. Now, if it becomes very clear that the only viable chance to make the 4 team college football playoff is to be in a conference and to win its championship game, well, that along with the revenue issue is likely enough to force ND to make a decision.

 

[WhartonHusky]

But why is winning a NC such a priority for a school like ND? I know that's every team's stated goal, but seems to me that ND prefers to remain an independent, national brand. It's as much about branding as it is about $$ or wins. They took the ACC deal because it was the most flexible and yet still enabled them to maintain a conference for other sports.

My take is that as long as ND can play it's national schedule, keep a national TV deal and remain a top 20 football program, they have checked all the necessary boxes.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

But why is winning a NC such a priority for a school like ND? I know that's every team's stated goal, but seems to me that ND prefers to remain an independent, national brand. It's as much about branding as it is about $$ or wins. They took the ACC deal because it was the most flexible and yet still enabled them to maintain a conference for other sports.

My take is that as long as ND can play it's national schedule, keep a national TV deal and remain a top 20 football program, they have checked all the necessary boxes.

Its an ego thing. ND expects to be in the national championship hunt each and every year. Winning satisfies their alumna's ego. Those with happy egos donate more money to the university. More money makes the university leaders happy who then invest some of that money back into the football team to make them better. In turn, they win more games.

Just ask Steve Patterson how well focusing just on the money instead of the winning worked out for him at U Texas.

 

[TerryD]

Oh thank God you were here. BC and ND fans in the same thread is a huge relief.

And no kidding - but our resident BC dunce said financial reasons so I gave him one.

The ND and several others have stated that independence is a higher priority than money (within reason of course) for ND. So the fact that a given conference can provide more revenue to each team that ND can get on its own will not provide enough impetus on its own for ND to change its ways. Now, if it becomes very clear that the only viable chance to make the 4 team college football playoff is to be in a conference and to win its championship game, well, that along with the revenue issue is likely enough to force ND to make a decision.

Likely?

 

[TerryD]

Its an ego thing. ND expects to be in the national championship hunt each and every year. Winning satisfies their alumna's ego. Those with happy egos donate more money to the university. More money makes the university leaders happy who then invest some of that money back into the football team to make them better. In turn, they win more games.

Just ask Steve Patterson how well focusing just on the money instead of the winning worked out for him at U Texas.

So, why do about 110 or so FBS schools play football, exactly? Outside of the usual 15 or so suspects, most of the other programs have very little chance of making the playoffs or winning a national championship.

Don't their alumni have egos? I know you guys don't like to hear from ND fans when discussing ND....but what if ND decides that it values independence over playoff access? It is allowed to decide that for itself.

Playoffs are a once in a while thing, but independence and branding are 24/7/365.

(Back to reading and not posting.....).

 

[The X Man]

(Back to reading and not posting.....).

Promise?

 

[sportsart]

Someone help me out here. ND reportedly gets $15 mill per year from NBC until 2025. I don't know what they get from ESPN for their away games but how is it this deal is better than what the B1G is supposed to be getting in their next BTN deal worth around $40 mill per team?

What am I missing?

 

[CallMeBruce]

So, why do about 110 or so FBS schools play football, exactly? Outside of the usual 15 or so suspects, most of the other programs have very little chance of making the playoffs or winning a national championship.

Don't their alumni have egos? I know you guys don't like to hear from ND fans when discussing ND....but what if ND decides that it values independence over playoff access? It is allowed to decide that for itself.

Playoffs are a once in a while thing, but independence and branding are 24/7/365.

(Back to reading and not posting.....).

Because "branding" is going to have a lot less value for a team that never competes for a title. Though, in ND's case, their inability to compete for a title will be more about their decades-long decline into mediocrity than their lack of league affiliation.

 

[TerryD]

Because "branding" is going to have a lot less value for a team that never competes for a title. Though, in ND's case, their inability to compete for a title will be more about their decades-long decline into mediocrity than their lack of league affiliation.

So, I guess that is another reason to not join a football conference since it just won't even matter?

 

[TerryD]

Someone help me out here. ND reportedly gets $15 mill per year from NBC until 2025. I don't know what they get from ESPN for their away games but how is it this deal is better than what the B1G is supposed to be getting in their next BTN deal worth around $40 mill per team?

What am I missing?

$15 million a year was for the old deal 2010-15. The new ten year deal through 2025 is rumored to be for $20-23 million, though as yet, here are no real, reported numbers on the new deal since ND is a private school. Nothing has leaked out yet.

Either way, Purdue will make much more money from TV than ND will. ND is well aware of this, but it really doesn't matter.

 

[WhartonHusky]

Agree with TerryD. There is a big difference between Texas and ND. ND wants to play a national schedule for the brand, exposure, not the football team. If football was the key to branding and alum donations, why did the Ivies allow their sports to sink into mediocrity?

 

[sportsart]

$15 million a year was for the old deal 2010-15. The new ten year deal through 2025 is rumored to be for $20-23 million, though as yet, here are no real, reported numbers on the new deal since ND is a private school. Nothing has leaked out yet.

Either way, Purdue will make much more money from TV than ND will. ND is well aware of this, but it really doesn't matter.

The most recent contract extension reportedly calls for Notre Dame to be paid $15 million a year until 2025

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/opinion/joe-nocera-notre-dames-big-bluff.html

 

[TerryD]

The most recent contract extension reportedly calls for Notre Dame to be paid $15 million a year until 2025

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/opinion/joe-nocera-notre-dames-big-bluff.html

This is from 2011, prior to the renewal of the contract from 2015-25:


"Unlike the other 13 schools on the list, Notre Dame is able to turn a profit without being part of a conference. They have their own lucrative television contract, rumored to garner them about $15m a year. However, Notre Dame finance professor Richard Sheehan, who was involved with the NBC negotiations, has said the rumored value is low. “The NBC contract is more lucrative than pretty much anyone knows,” he says."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/04/19/how-does-notre-dame-do-financially/

There is some lazy reporting out there that runs that number for the renewal as well. Does anyone really think that ND signed a locked in ten year deal with NBC for no increase (at a time when other TV contracts are expanding)?

The 2005-10 NBC deal was for $9 million/yr. The 2010-15 deal was for $15 million/yr. The new deal is for more money, ND sources have rumored it to be around $20-23 million.

It really doesn't matter. Purdue and Illinois will make multiple millions per year more in TV money. ND isn't interested in making the most TV money. The NBC contract is the vehicle that allows it to remain independent in football and have all of its games televised every Saturday OTA (which is a big deal to ND).