So I'm driving to a job site and hear the Suze on the radio...

[freescooter]

Football? What's that? You mean we have a football team?

Not this year...

 

[freescooter]

upstater,
I'm not arguing that Herbst needs to be in the booth telling Hank we ought to send the house on the next play, or make the halftime adjustments during the Maryland game. (though truth be told, it might be interesting to actually have someone make halftime adjustments) But to comment that you didn't know football was important to conference re-alignment...well again, just don't say anything which ought to be her mantra when it comes to athletics. Every single time I've heard her discuss the issue she has come off as clueless or worse. I couldn't get the link to work but you can hear the whole thing, what I heard before athletics is pretty good actually, at cpbn.org. It was on "Where we live" last Friday.

 

[jostar1]

Here is the broadcast, so judge for yourself. She starts talking football at the 41 minute mark:

http://www.yourpublicmedia.org/node/27121

 

[CTMike]

This thread is irritating on multiple levels. Mostly because of freescooters blind hatred for SH and WM and obvious confirmation bias. But also because that all obscures what appears to be a bit of a valid point.

I believed SH was smart enough to see how UConn's athletics (and their success) can help her out with her larger goals (fundraising, endowment, etc.) And maybe she does. But I'm not convinced it was well thought through after all these comments. The same ol "rest on the laurels of our old accomplishments" mentality that has gotten us here in the first place. No urgency, no fight.

 

[upstater]

upstater,
I'm not arguing that Herbst needs to be in the booth telling Hank we ought to send the house on the next play, or make the halftime adjustments during the Maryland game. (though truth be told, it might be interesting to actually have someone make halftime adjustments) But to comment that you didn't know football was important to conference re-alignment...well again, just don't say anything which ought to be her mantra when it comes to athletics. Every single time I've heard her discuss the issue she has come off as clueless or worse. I couldn't get the link to work but you can hear the whole thing, what I heard before athletics is pretty good actually, at cpbn.org. It was on "Where we live" last Friday.

Herbst was on the job not very long when this went down. That she did not know the importance of football should be no surprise, since most academics don't have any idea what it takes to land in a big conference. In fact, athletics people take advantage of this and sell these people a bill of goods without the goods. She was hired for her expertise elsewhere. She seems to have fulfilled those promises to a great degree. That she didn't know then, and admits as much now is a sign that she learned pretty quickly. The only relevant question is, did her lack of knowledge impact any of this? And the answer is NO.

 

[CTMike]

The only relevant question is, did her lack of knowledge impact any of this? And the answer is NO.

That's an awfully definitive statement. At a time when we needed to be all hands on deck, putting ourselves in the best possible light for any and all suitors- how do we know she didn't drop the ball on all that? Being a new president is an excuse. Sure seems like a lot of the presidents at P5 schools get conference realignment just fine.

 

[upstater]

Freescooter, she didn't say what you said she said.

She said the vast majority of Presidents involved with CR were not cognizant of how important football was. This is 100% the truth. That's entirely different than what you portrayed. Not only that but I found she put UConn football in a pretty good context to explain how far it's come. I can't imagine a single thing that you had a problem with.

What I found quite interesting is that in addressing the disappointment of the loss to Towson is that she didn't reinforce the idea that PP knows what he's doing, nor did she express confidence that he will right the ship, but instead she talked about Warde Manuel and what he's doing to improve UConn football, what his credentials are, what it takes to win in the bigtime.

You guys didn't find that interesting? I thought that was pretty damning.

 

[upstater]

That's an awfully definitive statement. At a time when we needed to be all hands on deck, putting ourselves in the best possible light for any and all suitors- how do we know she didn't drop the ball on all that? Being a new president is an excuse. Sure seems like a lot of the presidents at P5 schools get conference realignment just fine.

Because she could have done NOTHING to improve our football. How could she have gotten our football ahead of Louisville? First off, freescooter misquoted her answer. Secondly, you need to read between the lines: she is basically saying the Louisville got picked because of better football. Is there anyone that disagrees with the subtext of what she said?

 

[CTMike]

Because she could have done NOTHING to improve our football. How could she have gotten our football ahead of Louisville? First off, freescooter misquoted her answer. Secondly, you need to read between the lines: she is basically saying the Louisville got picked because of better football. Is there anyone that disagrees with the subtext of what she said?

You are right, I need to listen and interpret her words for myself...

Anyone have a link that will work on iPhone? Otherwise I'll listen when I get home.

 

[freescooter]

You're right,upstater on the Pasqualoni non-comments. As for the rest, we disagree as per usual I guess. If you're going to tell me the President of Notre Dame and the President of Louisville didn't get that football was critical...Syracuse and Pitt got it too for that matter, I don't know what to tell you. And Mike, I've said over and over here and elsewhere, I think Herbst is doing a great job at building the university. But it is my sense that she neither understands nor care about athletics. Her public statements on the subject range from clueless to downright embarrassing and she should just avoid the topic except to cheer lead for one or another team when they win a title. Otherwise just change the subject to STEM and cutting edge medical research that will be taking place at the Medical School.

 

[ZooCougar]

I think she has an AD that is paid to worry about Athletics.

I understand her strategy. She's playing the long game, building the academic standing, attracting research funding and opportunities.

Not at all worried about a few football comments on NPR. If she went on Mike and Mike (which I don't think she ever would) and made the same comments; she wouldn't because she would have enough sense to tailor her talking points to the audience.

I just don't see any of this as a big deal. It's NPR. People don't go to Terry Gross for realignment news.

 

[upstater]

You're right,upstater on the Pasqualoni non-comments. As for the rest, we disagree as per usual I guess. If you're going to tell me the President of Notre Dame and the President of Louisville didn't get that football was critical...Syracuse and Pitt got it too for that matter, I don't know what to tell you. And Mike, I've said over and over here and elsewhere, I think Herbst is doing a great job at building the university. But it is my sense that she neither understands nor care about athletics. Her public statements on the subject range from clueless to downright embarrassing and she should just avoid the topic except to cheer lead for one or another team when they win a title. Otherwise just change the subject to STEM and cutting edge medical research that will be taking place at the Medical School.

The vast majority of these presidents don't know the lay of the sports land. I mean, are you saying Nancy Cantor is aware? She's been a it for far longer than Herbst. So why is her football team going 1-7? If she's so aware, why didn't she plow more money into it to make Syracuse more formidable at football? Cantor has been there for over a decade! Cantor is as powerless as Herbst to effect change in these matters. From talking to many university presidents socially, I would say that Herbst's characterization is spot on. They know so very little about it. This is also the chief argument of the sports people against the NCAA, that it's controlled by Presidents who are vastly out of their depths when it comes to sports. That makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[jostar1]

You are right, I need to listen and interpret her words for myself...

Anyone have a link that will work on iPhone? Otherwise I'll listen when I get home.

The podcast is in the iTunes store. Search "Where We Live", then click on John Dankosky.

 

[06029]

Freescooter, she didn't say what you said she said.

She said the vast majority of Presidents involved with CR were not cognizant of how important football was. This is 100% the truth. That's entirely different than what you portrayed. Not only that but I found she put UConn football in a pretty good context to explain how far it's come. I can't imagine a single thing that you had a problem with.

What I found quite interesting is that in addressing the disappointment of the loss to Towson is that she didn't reinforce the idea that PP knows what he's doing, nor did she express confidence that he will right the ship, but instead she talked about Warde Manuel and what he's doing to improve UConn football, what his credentials are, what it takes to win in the bigtime.

You guys didn't find that interesting? I thought that was pretty damning.

Really? The vast majority?

Over 50% of the Presidents of BC, Pitt, Lville, Rutgers, VT, Cuse, Miami, Rutgers, MD, A & M, Nebraska are all ignorant on the importance of football? I guarantee each and every one of those Presidents understands the importance of football and conference affiliation and more importantly how important that is to their school's bottom line in terms of revenue and donations.

Now if you want to argue that Buffalo, Umass, UAB, FIU, FAU, etc have ignorant presidents, I would agree. But Herbst is president of a school that wants to be big time, that has alumni that want to be gig time and an athletic department that unless it becomes big time will become nationally irrelevant except in maybe WBB. She better be fully cognizant of every factor that is involved in CR.

On PP, she should not be talking directly about him. That is WM's place and unless he is firing him, he should be quiet at this point too.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

and she's being interviewed about UConn football...on NPR of all places. Kind of confirmed my view that when it comes to athletics, she is either clueless or doesn't much care. Highlights of her comments: 1. We're not Alabama, nor are we LSU (did youknow Towson almost beat LSU last year? Not really but that what she was told to say if Town came up I imagine...NPR listeners and all). We're also not Michigan. freescooter interpretation: We're going to be in the American Athletic Conference for a good long while.
2. She was caught off guard by how important football was to conference re-alignment. Yes she actually said that. freescooter interpretation: Suze doesn't read the Boneyard. In fact it is doubtful that she has ever read the sports page of any newspaper or even some pieces in the Journal of Higher Education...
3. Don't worry about football. Warde Manuel knows football. He played football at Michigan. freescooter interpretation: A. Warde ain't going anywhere. B. The fact that a team with 5 NFL players on it finished 5-7 didn't lead Warde to see that the Coach might be lacking in some regard makes one wonder whether we might be better off with an AD who actually knows results and to hell with his knowledge of football...
But #2 is the thing that is of the greatest concern. In her defense, she said she and other college presidents. I think she muct have been talking about the presidents of Connecticut College, Trinity and Wesleyan...football isn't a factor in re-alignment of the NESCAC as far as I know.

You are being sarcastic....aren't you?

 

[upstater]

Really? The vast majority?

Over 50% of the Presidents of BC, Pitt, Lville, Rutgers, VT, Cuse, Miami, Rutgers, MD, A & M, Nebraska are all ignorant on the importance of football? I guarantee each and every one of those Presidents understands the importance of football and conference affiliation and more importantly how important that is to their school's bottom line in terms of revenue and donations.

Now if you want to argue that Buffalo, Umass, UAB, FIU, FAU, etc have ignorant presidents, I would agree. But Herbst is president of a school that wants to be big time, that has alumni that want to be gig time and an athletic department that unless it becomes big time will become nationally irrelevant except in maybe WBB. She better be fully cognizant of every factor that is involved in CR.

On PP, she should not be talking directly about him. That is WM's place and unless he is firing him, he should be quiet at this point too.

Read my post above about Cantor.

UNC, Duke, and many other schools, not to mention sports executives, journalists, all had UConn in the ACC. Why didn't UConn get in? Football. If only these people knew the importance of football ahead of time, they could have saved everyone some grief!!!

 

[ZooCougar]

Read my post above about Cantor.

UNC, Duke, and many other schools, not to mention sports executives, journalists, all had UConn in the ACC. Why didn't UConn get in? Football. If only these people knew the importance of football ahead of time, they could have saved everyone some grief!!!

UConn probably was in. Penciled in.

Problem was, at some point last season Clemson and FSU freaked out enough to worry about the football credibility of the conference so when having to add a school to replace Maryland was forced upon them they weighed in.

By most accounts, UConn had its allies. But I believe that the rest of the conference felt as if it were held hostage by Clemson/FSU and they really thought that for the first time the ACC was at risk for mass defections that would have basically left them with the old Big East plus some NC Basketball schools.

That's what happened. So yes, football was a big deal. But timing was as well. If the ACC were riding high football wise then maybe we would have snuck in. Who knows.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

The moment you start thinking you can trust freescooter to properly interpret UConn-related news or events and relay them to you is the moment you should really start thinking about making new life choices.

 

[06029]

Read my post above about Cantor.

UNC, Duke, and many other schools, not to mention sports executives, journalists, all had UConn in the ACC. Why didn't UConn get in? Football. If only these people knew the importance of football ahead of time, they could have saved everyone some grief!!!

Are they not cognizant or powerless? The two are exclusive of each other. Cantor fully understands the importance of being in a conference that is known as being one of the power conferences, understands that the conference affiliation and revenue makes many other things possible at the university and understands that alumni EXPECT and DEMAND inclusion in a power conference. Pitt and Cuse, as well as every other school I listed, understand that FB drives the bus.

Uconn, and that includes a lot of its alumni, former and maybe some current people in charge, the casual fan base and most importantly the BoT, continue to misunderstand and undervalue its importance. I 100% believe that the BoT still doesn't get it. Look at the BoT's at any of the schools that won in CR. There are some pretty good FB players on all of those boards. They understand. And they make sure the presidents understand. That is why they are on the winning side. The guy that got it and saw that no one else did was Perkins.

 

[ZooCougar]

If you were the President of a weak sister football school that wants to improve it's conference affiliation, would you play up the importance of football?

 

[06029]

If you were the President of a weak sister football school that wants to improve it's conference affiliation, would you play up the importance of football?

Internally and externally? Hell yes. It's called PR, self promotion, raising the awareness or any other great thing you can call shameless shilling for a better outcome.It starts internally at the BoT level and it needs to be throughout the process. The prez can make it all about academics and athletics and the GREAT football graduation rate while making a BCS bowl.

And who is the weak sister? The school that in less than 10 years went to a BCS bowl game? The school that had an overall winning record on the field against all of the teams that won in CR?

 

[CTBasketball]

But people love her here and will defend her forever!

Told ya.

 

[ZooCougar]

Internally and externally? Hell yes. It's called PR, self promotion, raising the awareness or any other great thing you can call shameless shilling for a better outcome.It starts internally at the BoT level and it needs to be throughout the process. The prez can make it all about academics and athletics and the GREAT football graduation rate while making a BCS bowl.

And who is the weak sister? The school that in less than 10 years went to a BCS bowl game? The school that had an overall winning record on the field against all of the teams that won in CR?

Those are all good talking points but they kind of fall on deaf ears. College Football is a fashion show and everything seems to be about perception and the present. What we did in the past is credible, but if it actually mattered to these people then it would have been taken into account. Obviously it wasn't or it wasn't enough to matter.

 

[buggsy]

Disagree with absolutely everything you wrote here. The correlations you are drawing are negligible at best. In fact, at Rutgers, as you guys were pouring hundreds of millions into sports while simultaneously cutting your academic programs, you dropped 20-30 points in the rankings. Why? Faculty fled Rutgers. You had a national reputation as a school hemorraghing. Andrew Zimbalist, the sports economics specialist, used Rutgers as a prime example of a school that, far from sports helping it, describes the school as taking on the sheen of a loser because of athletics, which overtakes its significant and admirable academic reputation.

10% of schools that ramp up sport experience a gain, schools like Boise or BC are examples. The rest experience nothing, and some are hurt by it.

Of course you disagree, and of course, you are wrong.

RU poured $112 million into the stadium upgrade, but didn't cut a single academic program. Not one. Nada. Other athletic programs were cut (8 in all) but not a single academic program was cut. Let's get that mistruth you stated out in the clear.

Our academic ranking fell because we are currently mandated to accept no more than 8 percent out-of-state students. That has kept a lot of weaker in-state students in.....while keeping stronger out-of- state students who applied out. That's changing thank god, under Prez Barchi. He wants to expand out-of-state enrollment to 12-15 percent....and he's going to do it.

By the way, UCONN's student body in 1995 was 83 percent in-state...17 percent out-of-state.

http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/It-s-getting-harder-to-get-into-UConn-908733.php

In 2012, UCONN was only 76 percent-in-state, and 24 percent out-of-state.

http://www.uconn.edu/students.php

UCONN got smart...and let in more stronger students from outside CT. That's what Barchi has started doing at RU.

Regarding the money we poured into the stadium (it was $112 million, not hundreds of millions) that was done to better situate us for a move into a big-time conference...and it worked. One of the first things Delany told Pernetti was that we were going to have to upgrade our stadium. Once Pernetti explained that we had just done that....and showed him the changes made (including the additional 11K seats and nearly 3 dozen new suites) he said he was satisfied, and that no expansion would be necessary.

Now if you want to argue that we should have waited until we got a P-5 invite (and the accompanying tens of millions of new annual $$$) before breaking ground on the stadium expansion....then I would say you're wrong, because by that time it would have been too late.

Thankfully, President McCormick...who came from a PAC 10 school (U. of Washington), saw the value of investing in athletics for the future of the school.

Also, that argument would only further my original point. that conference realignment is necessary in order to keep relevant, and start earning the 25 million a year in TV rights the other P-5 schools are making....and if Herbst failed to realize that, then she has done a terrible job as president, and should not hold the office she holds.

And you conveniently left out some notables, relevant to recent conference realignment.

Louisville invested $72 million recently with the expansion of Papa John Stadium. What happened to them?

Oh that's right, They took the ACC spot UCONN absolutely SHOULD have received.

TCU? They invested more than $160 million into its football stadium, upgraded other facilities, and paid $3 million annually to keep its top-notch football coach. In five years, TCU more than doubled its athletics budget, from $21 million per annum to $52 million.

They got a Big 12 offer, worth 20+million a year.

Houston is investing $125 million for their new football stadium and another $40 million on their basketball arena, Hofheinz Pavilion.

I won't be surprised one bit if the Big 12 extends them an offer before UCONN gets one.

Now regarding Rutgers' academic rankings...do you really think RU is NOT going to see a big uptick in its rankings now that we have joined the Big Ten (like Penn State did 20 years ago)....and since RU invested millions into re-organizing the new medical school into the fold?

Come on Upstater, you're smarter than that. Or at least, you think you are.

 

[CTBasketball]

Bottom line is UConn doesn't care about football. So we are the odd-man out. Always.