Possible Big 12 Invite rumors

[upstater]

Definitionally the state pays for the athletic deficit, because the academic side does not earn sufficient funds to pay for its own expenses fully, never mind it's own expenses and the AD side.

If that's the case, you can say the endowment pays for athletics. You can say that research grants pay for athletics. You can tuition pays for athletics. You can say it anyway you want at the end of the day, but state subsidy doesn't even cover 50% of the school's expenditures.

All I said was, if you think the state is covering the athletics deficit, then that must mean the state has defunded the academic side.

 

[upstater]

At the moment the media contracts for the ACC and B-12 pay iut basically the same dollar amount per school but, in a couple years when the new contract kicks in, the B-12 will make nearly $20 million more per school per year. Additionally, in 2031, the B-12's contract comes up for renewal with the likelyhood of a further increase over what ACC schools make as they are locked in until 2036. The major cause of the noise from Tallahassee is that soon UCF will receive considerably more revenue than FSU.

You're including payments from the bowls and championships in that B12 payout. The TV money for the B12 is $31m. The ACC will obviously also be receiving the same payouts over and above TV money that the B12 gets, maybe more if you believe B12 football isn't going to get as many playoff teams as the ACC.

I see a $7m difference per team between the 2 conferences until the ACC gets redone.

 

[CL82]

If that's the case, you can say the endowment pays for athletics. You can say that research grants pay for athletics. You can tuition pays for athletics. You can say it anyway you want at the end of the day, but state subsidy doesn't even cover 50% of the school's expenditures.

All I said was, if you think the state is covering the athletics deficit, then that must mean the state has defunded the academic side.

You could say that, but why would you? There is a difference between endowment and income. University expenses are covered by its various sources of income, predominantly tuition and room and board and, in our case, State subsidy. The various sources of income are insufficient to pay for the running of academic expenses. So, it makes no sense to say that academics is subsidizing athletics. Their earnings aren't going towards athletics. It is the state money that subsidizes athletics.

 

[upstater]

You could say that, but why would you? There is a difference between endowment and income. University expenses are covered by its various sources of income, predominantly tuition and room and board and, in our case, State subsidy. The various sources of income are insufficient to pay for the running of academic expenses. So, it makes no sense to say that academics is subsidizing athletics. Their earnings aren't going towards athletics. It is the state money that subsidizes athletics.

Every year the university draws on the endowment which is part of income.

I don't know how many times I need to say this, but if it's true the state is the one that carries the cost of athletics (I say it's not) then Connecticut has defunded academics.

I don't understand your line of thinking at all, but if for some wild reason I agreed with you, I could only conclude the state doesn't care about UConn's academic mission enough to increase its funding over a decade.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

We're discussing if the league broke up and they negotiated a new deal now.

??? How can a league that no longer exists negotiate anything?

 

[CL82]

Every year the university draws on the endowment which is part of income.

I don't know how many times I need to say this, but if it's true the state is the one that carries the cost of athletics (I say it's not) then Connecticut has defunded academics.

I don't understand your line of thinking at all, but if for some wild reason I agreed with you, I could only conclude the state doesn't care about UConn's academic mission enough to increase its funding over a decade.

Or alternatively it believes that it's adequately subsidized.

When you say the University drugs down on their endowment do you mean it utilizes the income generated by its endowment?

 

[upstater]

Or alternatively it believes that it's adequately subsidized.

When you say the University drugs down on their endowment do you mean it utilizes the income generated by its endowment?

Maybe the people who adequately subsidize UConn need to learn about inflation, cost increases, if they believe a flat subsidy is good enough.

The truth is the state has increased funding to UConn over a last decade, but if you count the $100m in extra liabilities, and if you also believe that $50m of that is meant for athletics, a total of $150m subtracted from the increase in funding, then there hasn't been an increase in funding, despite increased costs, despite inflation, etc.

 

[upstater]

??? How can a league that no longer exists negotiate anything?

Break up in the sense that the marriage is over. Teams leave. The new league then negotiates a deal

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Break up in the sense that the marriage is over. Teams leave. The new league then negotiates a deal

What new league? Do you believe the identical membership of a dissolved conference can immediately reassemble and not have any contractual obligations of the prior conference (which was materially identical)?

Additionally, how do you believe the NCAA would react to a group of schools sending in paperwork informing them that the ACC is no longer in existence with an attached letter by the same schools requesting the NCAA grant them status as an athletic conference.

ESPN would file a lawsuit against the individual schools (and possibly leadership of both the dissolved and the new conference) immediately, on the grounds that the excercise the schools just completed was merely a ploy to try to break a binding contract.

Hell, ESPN (if they wanted to be vindictive) could even attempt an injunction to prevent the schools from joining a conference or collecting any broadcast revenues until a judge made a determination on whether the dissolution/reconstitution of the ACC and its member schools was a legitimate set of distinct transactions with an actual purpose (outside of breaking a contract) or if it was just an attempt at bypassing contractual obligations.

This may be more of a financial risk than trying to buy out of the GOR.

The only way the ACC could legitimately dissolve would be to leave a handful of members behind as everyone starts looking for a new home.

 

[CL82]

Maybe the people who adequately subsidize UConn need to learn about inflation, cost increases, if they believe a flat subsidy is good enough.

The truth is the state has increased funding to UConn over a last decade, but if you count the $100m in extra liabilities, and if you also believe that $50m of that is meant for athletics, a total of $150m subtracted from the increase in funding, then there hasn't been an increase in funding, despite increased costs, despite inflation, etc.

Apparently the University board of trustees believe that athletics brings value in excess of the cost, otherwise they wouldn't continue to offer it, right?

 

[ToolzieFan]

I don’t know if I’ll like it in my heart, but UConn, Kansas, Baylor, and Houston could be a pretty sick top 4 in a conference.

 

[Huskyforlife]

I don’t know if I’ll like it in my heart, but UConn, Kansas, Baylor, and Houston could be a pretty sick top 4 in a conference.

And that’s before an Arizona potentially gets added.

 

[Khal Drogo]

Gonzaga doesn’t have football. If Big 12 is approaching Gonzaga for basketball only maybe their interest in UConn is also Basketball only. Why has everyone assumed it’s for all sports?

 

[Hoophound]

Gonzaga doesn’t have football. If Big 12 is approaching Gonzaga for basketball only maybe their interest in UConn is also Basketball only. Why has everyone assumed it’s for all sports?

On our side, we aren’t leaving the BE just to play B12 basketball.

It was also stated by the B12 that they would not take a member with an FBS football team as a basketball only. So, that isn’t going to be on the table.

 

[John]

Gonzaga doesn’t have football. If Big 12 is approaching Gonzaga for basketball only maybe their interest in UConn is also Basketball only. Why has everyone assumed it’s for all sports?

If it's not for all-sports then why bother?

 

[CL82]

Gonzaga doesn’t have football. If Big 12 is approaching Gonzaga for basketball only maybe their interest in UConn is also Basketball only. Why has everyone assumed it’s for all sports?

Because Yormark has expressly stated that he will not take a school that plays football as a basketball only.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Gonzaga doesn’t have football. If Big 12 is approaching Gonzaga for basketball only maybe their interest in UConn is also Basketball only. Why has everyone assumed it’s for all sports?

I'm all in on the Big 12. But if the offer isn't all sports, we can't take it.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I would absolutely be on board with just sending our football program to the Big 12.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

I would absolutely be on board with just sending our football program to the Big 12.

Probably the least likely scenario.

 

[Waquoit]

Final 4's have never really mattered to me, it's all about winning the whole thing.

Making a Final Four is a big deal. Especially when your team held the record for most NCAA appearances without one.

 

[hayman522]

Apparently the University board of trustees believe that athletics brings value in excess of the cost, otherwise they wouldn't continue to offer it, right?

I would agree!

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

I don’t know if I’ll like it in my heart, but UConn, Kansas, Baylor, and Houston could be a pretty sick top 4 in a conference.

Not the worst Final Four either

 

[upstater]

What new league? Do you believe the identical membership of a dissolved conference can immediately reassemble and not have any contractual obligations of the prior conference (which was materially identical)?

Additionally, how do you believe the NCAA would react to a group of schools sending in paperwork informing them that the ACC is no longer in existence with an attached letter by the same schools requesting the NCAA grant them status as an athletic conference.

ESPN would file a lawsuit against the individual schools (and possibly leadership of both the dissolved and the new conference) immediately, on the grounds that the excercise the schools just completed was merely a ploy to try to break a binding contract.

Hell, ESPN (if they wanted to be vindictive) could even attempt an injunction to prevent the schools from joining a conference or collecting any broadcast revenues until a judge made a determination on whether the dissolution/reconstitution of the ACC and its member schools was a legitimate set of distinct transactions with an actual purpose (outside of breaking a contract) or if it was just an attempt at bypassing contractual obligations.

This may be more of a financial risk than trying to buy out of the GOR.

The only way the ACC could legitimately dissolve would be to leave a handful of members behind as everyone starts looking for a new home.

It will still be the ACC. Im saying the current membership breaks up. 3 or 4 teams leave. By new conference I meant a conference with new members.

How would it be a ploy if schools left the conference? Not getting you.

 

[upstater]

Apparently the University board of trustees believe that athletics brings value in excess of the cost, otherwise they wouldn't continue to offer it, right?

No, I wouldn't assume that. I can think of any number of reasons why one continues to lose money.

1. President and Board are ensconced making a ton of money and they don't want to rock the boat. Some of the Presidents are all, fine, fine, fine, whatever, I'm making $1m. The amount of time Presidents spend on sports is much less than the ratio of the AD budget to the overall budget.

2. A school could fund athletics waiting for an opportunity to move to a more lucrative conference.

What do you believe is the value here exactly?

I also note that the topic here has changed. We were talking about the state subsidy.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

The backup plan is to sit tight: stay in the Big East and reevaluate as circumstances evolve in the Big12 and ACC. The revenue gap widens in the interim, but the state of Connecticut will apparently cover it.

Villanova operates on a $39 million budget and allegedly breaks even .
UConn’s is over $100 million with an annual deficit in the $50million range.
When you take Texas and Okla out of the equation our budget is right in line with current B12 schools
We pretty much operate like we’re a mid tier P5 school snd it’s at the expense of the CT taxpayers. How sustainable is that trend?
Just for reference Cinncy’s budget in the AAC is $89million with a deficit of $20million
That’s with a *$6 million plus conference contribution which is budgeted to increase to $ 26 million next year .
With a spending increase to get online with other Big 12 schools the deficit will be halved.
If you want to keep basketball in the Big East then make football attractive enough to be football only in the B12 or ACC snd guarantee that conference X number of basketball games a year both men’s and women’s