That's a fair point that every pitcher is different, and I don't doubt that Peterson wanted to pitch yesterday. I just think it's Penders job to know better than to let that happen.I pitched thru college. Most pitches thrown in a game was 161 in a 10 inning HS playoff game. I was capable of coming back in relatively short rest throughout college. Some pitchers can and some can't. Coaches know who can and can't based on throwing days between starts during the season. In general, the pitching coach would have the final say after consulting the pitcher. The pitcher/pitching coach relationship is vital to these decisions. I couldn't find an example of a pitcher who pitched on short rest during the CWS tournament and had a injury. If a pitcher was frequently overused in the regular season to win a conference title that would be a huge issue. Bottom line is that pitcher use is a recruiting issue. If a coach gets a "pitcher abuse" reputation he digs himself a big hole in recruiting.
If your argument here is about Anthony Kay, then fine. That is a pretty ridiculous scenario, and Penders deserves blame for that. That is not close to what happened with Peterson.And it may not have been in the CWS but it happened with Anthony Kay at UConn. Penders kept him in for 127 pitches in an 18-1 blowout win during the regular season, and then threw him 101 pitches in the conference tournament and brought him back for 90 more on 3 days rest. He was drafted that June and immediately got Tommy John
Funny how no one else wanted to mention thatThat's a fair point that every pitcher is different, and I don't doubt that Peterson wanted to pitch yesterday. I just think it's Penders job to know better than to let that happen.
And it may not have been in the CWS but it happened with Anthony Kay at UConn. Penders kept him in for 127 pitches in an 18-1 blowout win during the regular season, and then threw him 101 pitches in the conference tournament and brought him back for 90 more on 3 days rest. He was drafted that June and immediately got Tommy John
Or, perhaps no one else in the world considers it “morally questionable”. Just something to think about.other people do morally questionable things so when our team does it it's ok
Nah most people know it's wrong and they just do it anyway or sweep it under the rug. If you don't think it's wrong then you are stuck in the past and your opinion doesn't matter anyway. It's not 1970 anymore. Times have changed. We know more now than we did back then.Or, perhaps no one else in the world considers it “morally questionable”. Just something to think about.
Lol, “I have an opinion and everyone else is wrong.”Nah most people know it's wrong and they just do it anyway or sweep it under the rug. If you don't think it's wrong then you are stuck in the past and your opinion doesn't matter anyway. It's not 1970 anymore. Times have changed. We know more now than we did back then.
1. You can't expect everyone to simply take your word for the fact that common practice allows material risks to be taken with pitchers arms that can be avoided. You very well may be right, but no rational person without in depth knowledge on this would take an anonymous poster's word for it.I'm embarrassed by all the responses to this thread. People really can't possibly fathom that their favorite school could make a wrong decision. Lots of tough guys in this thread who know nothing about baseball/injuries
Correct! Times have changed! Something we agree on. Todays baseball players actually do strength and conditioning, prehab, rehab, and proper nutrition. They don’t just run poles for cooldown. And the science and training staff and light years ahead of the 1970s.Nah most people know it's wrong and they just do it anyway or sweep it under the rug. If you don't think it's wrong then you are stuck in the past and your opinion doesn't matter anyway. It's not 1970 anymore. Times have changed. We know more now than we did back then.
Holy crap. You just jumped from medical theories, where I know there is a basis for your conclusions, to you know for a medical fact that how he was used in one particular fortnight caused Anthony Kay's injury? And not cumulative long term effects of throwing? I doubt a surgeon would ever reach such a conclusion. So I assume you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?That's a fair point that every pitcher is different, and I don't doubt that Peterson wanted to pitch yesterday. I just think it's Penders job to know better than to let that happen.
And it may not have been in the CWS but it happened with Anthony Kay at UConn. Penders kept him in for 127 pitches in an 18-1 blowout win during the regular season, and then threw him 101 pitches in the conference tournament and brought him back for 90 more on 3 days rest. He was drafted that June and immediately got Tommy John
i think some of the staff has been spending a bit too much time focusing on the not so proper nutrition and not on the strength/conditioning.Correct! Times have changed! Something we agree on. Todays baseball players actually do strength and conditioning, prehab, rehab, and proper nutrition. They don’t just run poles for cooldown. And the science and training staff and light years ahead of the 1970s.
Lol, “I have an opinion and everyone else is wrong.”
OK then.
I think you're confusing me with JMick, I did not suggest suspending Penders1. You can't expect everyone to simply take your word for the fact that common practice allows material risks to be taken with pitchers arms that can be avoided. You very well may be right, but no rational person without in depth knowledge on this would take an anonymous poster's word for it.
2. More importantly, the incoming fire you're getting is not because of your medical opinion but because of the over the top solution. Which is suspending our coach for something that the rules allow and many other coaches do in these double elimination tournaments as well. Had you started with "The NCAA needs Pitch Count Mandates," you would not have gotten the same reaction. But even if you are 100% right on the medical, your proposal is not a sane solution to the problem.
yeah that's why they all need tommy john surgery now.Correct! Times have changed! Something we agree on. Todays baseball players actually do strength and conditioning, prehab, rehab, and proper nutrition. They don’t just run poles for cooldown. And the science and training staff and light years ahead of the 1970s.
And Crawford gets TJ after pitching a combined 20 innings (college and summer) over 2 years. Not defending the use of Kay in those situations, but the direct comparisons are difficult. Kay at 6' 200 lbs is just a different pitcher than Peterson at 6'6" 230That's a fair point that every pitcher is different, and I don't doubt that Peterson wanted to pitch yesterday. I just think it's Penders job to know better than to let that happen.
And it may not have been in the CWS but it happened with Anthony Kay at UConn. Penders kept him in for 127 pitches in an 18-1 blowout win during the regular season, and then threw him 101 pitches in the conference tournament and brought him back for 90 more on 3 days rest. He was drafted that June and immediately got Tommy John
No I'm not saying any particular outing specifically caused his Tommy John, not with any level of certainty. But I don't think there's any argument against the idea that he was overused that season, and then got Tommy John. Maybe a coincidence, maybe notHoly crap. You just jumped from medical theories, where I know there is a basis for your conclusions, to you know for a medical fact that how he was used in one particular fortnight caused Anthony Kay's injury? And not cumulative long term effects of throwing? I doubt a surgeon would ever reach such a conclusion. So I assume you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express?
There are probably 2 dozen pitchers that threw over 110 pitches total in multiple outings this weekend. I don't think even 5% of them will have Tommy John surgery (which btw, is a result of your genetics and mechanics more than anything).yeah that's why they all need tommy john surgery now.
So are you saying those are the cause of TJ's or the higher pitch counts?yeah that's why they all need tommy john surgery now.