Paige Bueckers vs Caitlin Clark [merged thread]

[HuskyNan]

 

[BBallF]

Perfect timing.

 

[oldude]

So this guy reads the BY!!!

 

[pk1234]

Both are a really, really good basketball players. Comparisons are kind of stupid.

On that note I saw way too much Clark bashing by UConn fans last night after her tough game. She is doing wonders in terms of growing the sport and was NPOY last year for a reason. That needs to stop. She's a terrific player.

 

[cancontent]

Yes, that's the good stuff indeed. Neither of them care about comparisons and continue to handle their business on the court. The comparison debate is fun overall for the sport provided we don't get too wrapped up in it.

 

[sun]

Please feel free to disagree with me. Just try not to talk as though anyone who disagrees with you must be out of their minds. That's not a great way to defend Caitlin.

Paige had her chance to be a FF hero against Arizona but she came up short with 18 points which is less than Clark's usual average points per game.

Arizona 69-59 UConn (Apr 2, 2021) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Arizona Wildcats vs. UConn Huskies NCAAW game from April 2, 2021 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.

www.espn.com

In the 2021 -2022 NC game against SCar Paige only scored 14 points. I know she wasn't 100% but that's not Clark's fault. Clark came back to upset SCar last year which is a strange coincidence considering how Paige couldn't deliver more points for whatever reason. Their records reflect their individual accomplishments. Clark has delivered many heroics for Iowa. Paige has delivered many heroics too but aren't as numerous or quite as notable. As a team Iowa had much steeper hills to climb which seems to have given Clark a higher gear as she had to work harder to figure out how to help her team win.

2021 - 2022 NC BOX SCORE

 

[darkstar1]

Stats are overrated. Make your teammates better and win. See: Bill Russel as an example.

 

[pk1234]

Stats are overrated. Make your teammates better and win. See: Bill Russel as an example.

Clark took a team full of non-All American recruits to the National Championship and were a Jasmine Carson Linsanity run away from winning a championship. She makes her teammates better.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The war of the fans and the commentators. It will go on for a long, long time I'm thinking.

What war? This war:

 

[darkstar1]

I don't take an "evenhanded" approach to comparing these two great players. I think Paige is better, and by a wide margin. Why? Because basketball is a team sport and that means more than just getting assists. It means making your teammates better on every possession. Paige is simply much better than Caitlin at this.

You could really see it when Paige returned two seasons ago. The team breathed a collective sigh of relief just to have her diminished self on the floor again. The difference was palpable. And when she took her patchwork team to the NC based on astonishing heroics, held together by duct tape and paperclips as she was, it was unforgettable.

Yes, Caitlin took her team to an NC last season. But was it really a comparable achievement to what Paige did? I think not. She beat SC, but they were almost primed to lose precisely to a good perimeter shooting team. Their weakness was tailor-made for what Iowa was good at. But Paige's Huskies faced stronger teams at every step of the way and beat them at their strengths. Break Czinano's arm and give Warnock the flu just before the SC game and see how well Iowa does in that matchup.

Yes, Caitlin is a great offensive player and a pretty good defender. But she ain't no Paige. She'll have a fine career in the W, sort of like Adrian Dantley's in the NBA, and she'll make about as much of a mark as he did. Even if Paige never plays a game in the W, she's still the better player.

Assuming healthy, Paige will transition seamlessly into the WNBA on any team. I can’t see any coach preferring Clarke. Not to diminish her offensive talent one bit. The debate over who was a better player reminds of the Collier vs Ogunbawalle debate. Both great players. One had great offensive stats as a volume shooter, the other was simply the better of the two.

 

[MSGRET]

Clark took a team full of non-All American recruits to the National Championship and were a Jasmine Carson Linsanity run away from winning a championship. She makes her teammates better.

So did Paige her Sophomore year and had two top players on the team missing from that championship game. Clark also had Czinao a first team Big Ten player and NCAA honorable mention.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Lots of great points, BBallF. I don't feel you give Caitlin a fair shake, but you're right about all of Paige's wonderful abilities.

I think Caitlin is a terrific player, and as matter of fact if she played for UConn, she’d be the 2nd best player on the team.

 

[BBallF]

I would take Paige over Ashley Battle for defensive smarts and Clark’s pull up does not compare with Paige’s. Paige has a pure vertical elevation on the spot. They are both great players but it sounds like you prefer Caitlin which I don’t.

 

[AzzisBraids]

They're not comparable to me. Two different kind of parallel talents that do two different kind of things their team needs.

 

[HuskyNan]

Paige had her chance to be a FF hero against Arizona but she came up short with 18 points which is less than Clark's usual average points per game.

Arizona 69-59 UConn (Apr 2, 2021) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Arizona Wildcats vs. UConn Huskies NCAAW game from April 2, 2021 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.

www.espn.com

In the 2021 -2022 NC game against SCar Paige only scored 14 points. I know she wasn't 100% but that's not Clark's fault. Clark came back to upset SCar last year which is a strange coincidence considering how Paige couldn't deliver more points for whatever reason. Their records reflect their individual accomplishments. Clark has delivered many heroics for Iowa. Paige has delivered many heroics too but aren't as numerous or quite as notable. As a team Iowa had much steeper hills to climb which seems to have given Clark a higher gear as she had to work harder to figure out how to help her team win.

2021 - 2022 NC BOX SCORE

You’re reaching if you’re picking stats from one game in Paige’s career, a Final Four game in a year in which she was named the best player in women’s college basketball.

You are also conveniently overlooking the fact that UConn lost in the Final Four while Iowa lost in the Sweet 16 that year. And who knocked them out? Why, it was Paige and the Huskies. Here they are head-to-head. By the way, that was the first of UConn’s two victories over Caitlin and Iowa, the second being last year.

 

[The deacon]

You're cherry picking here.

Yes, many observers had noticed SC's vulnerability in perimeter shooting. And I never said Caitlin didn't play really well, even heroically, in that game.

Yes, Paige hit the floor a few times. But watch the tape and tell me if those were hunting whistles or the result of actual contact or being actually off-balance as the shot required. Denying it just sounds snarky. Everyone here knows Caitlin often used to simply throw herself on the floor as part of a drive. I sincerely hope she doesn't revert to the practice any more.

Yes, I believe Paige's return in 21-22 was a greater achievement than what Caitlin did. You are free to disagree. Paige did more with less, and didn't get any lucky breaks. Her team got every unlucky break imaginable and she still carried them to the NC game. You can try to conceal this by neglecting all the relevant distinctions, but it won't change the truth.

And you know exactly where the Dantley comparison comes from. He was another great scorer who didn't consistently make his teams better. That's always been the knock on Caitlin too. Let's see if she can grow as a player this year.

And I have repeatedly said I think Caitlin is a great player -- and then I've characterized the ways in which she is great and the ways she is a limited player, too. Rather like Dantley was. I can't fathom why you object to this. Surely you're not saying he wasn't a great player, are you???

I'd like to see Iowa succeed this year, maybe make another NC run. I'd also love to see an Iowa-UConn game. That would be wonderful, though I have no doubt as to the result: Paige would engineer a win and Caitlin would have glossy stats.

Please feel free to disagree with me. Just try not to talk as though anyone who disagrees with you must be out of their minds. That's not a great way to defend Caitlin.

Glad to see the lively discourse, as I anticipated when I posted on the 'Clark scores 44' thread last evening.

I never doubt your sanity, Bone Dog, and I apologize that you drew that from my post. We disagree on this one. Perhaps one of us will move toward the other's point of view during this season.

You're easily one of the brightest posters here. Yet at this moment saying things like Paige is easily better than Caitlin just begs a response.

Anyway, as I finished my post a while ago (actually, just before l enjoyed likely my last golf outing of the season):

'I'm baffled by your inability to appreciate Caitlin's brilliance as a player, Bone Dog, but to each his own. As I've said many times, Paige and Caitlin are different players playing in different playgrounds, with a very different set of circumstances. I love that we have both of them in our world.'

That's it, Bone Dog. As you said a few posts ago, now I'll leave it up to others to talk this out.

 

[wingsfan055]

If both healthy, I would take Paige over Clark. Paige has another gear that others can't match. When she's in this zone, she takes over games.

 

[TCC Kid]

Awhile back I started a thread implying that Paige was the best player in WBB. A number of BY’ers suggested, with justification, that the best player in WBB was Caitlin Clark.

The comparison between the two is obvious and appropriate. I do believe this question will continue so long as they both play basketball.

So here’s one comparative datapoint to consider. Last night both Paige and Clark scored 24 pts in their respective games. Paige had 24 points on 15 shots in a 32-point win against 20th ranked MD. Clark had 24 points on 32 shots in a 7-point loss to unranked K-State.

3 Points--Into their career the comparison shall disappear. Now it is shall be for the TV/Media hype they can achieve--not the kids the media's. Paige, if healthy, shall be the more desirable pro/money maker.
Frankly, how Paige ranks or doesn't doesn't matter. DT was the do all, carry all, one player (Maya was THE one player)--Paige as good as she is may not reach the (in college) monument of DT. Paige was assisting and defending--as I have not seen a Uconn do in 3 or more years. I don't see Ms Clark defending that well. I like Caitlin Clark--

 

[TCC Kid]

To be Meadowlark--she'd need a course in acting/comedy/ and play against the GENERALS. He WAS fun.

 

[CL82]

So this guy reads the BY!!!

And posts here from time to time.

 

[MooseJaw]

Good points, Moosejaw... and if you asked the same questions on the Iowa fan forum, don't you think you might get different responses?

Of course, the answer would be different, they are allowed to be wrong. You go to an Iowa game you go to see Clark. If you go to a UCONN game you go to see the Huskies led by Paige. In all honesty by almost every metric Paige is a better all-around player. Deacon, if a case can be made that Clark is a better all-around player, I would enjoy reading their response, I just won't be holding my breath.

 

[Dezoworld]

Awhile back I started a thread implying that Paige was the best player in WBB. A number of BY’ers suggested, with justification, that the best player in WBB was Caitlin Clark.

The comparison between the two is obvious and appropriate. I do believe this question will continue so long as they both play basketball.

So here’s one comparative datapoint to consider. Last night both Paige and Clark scored 24 pts in their respective games. Paige had 24 points on 15 shots in a 32-point win against 20th ranked MD. Clark had 24 points on 32 shots in a 7-point loss to unranked K-State.

And did it in less minutes

 

[Surly1]

Understood. However, Caitlin was 9-32 from the field last night for 35%. Paige was 66 2/3% from the field last night. How many points would Paige have in a given game if she shot 32 times?

For the record, Caitlin has taken over 20 shots in a game 44 times in her career out of a little more than 100 games. Paige has attempted 20+ shots 4 times, all in her freshman campaign, with a high of 26 when she shot 15-26 against SC. In that game, SC knew Paige was going to shoot and still could not stop her. She easily could put up comparable numbers to Caitlin if she upped her attempts per game.

Herein lies the rub. It goes against Paige's nature to force her shot. I can count on one hand the number of bad or forced shots by her at UConn. Contrastingly, Caitlin forced at least 10 uncharacteristic shots, especially from the 3-pt land against K St. This is one area of difference in their games: Paige doesn't force her game to make things happen, while Caitlin wants to make things happen and sometimes forces things.

As Geno has stated previously, nobody makes Paige play at a different speed. She might not be the quickest or most athletic, but her change of direction and pace serves her well. Clark is a demon going north to south, and it's where she's most dangerous, pulling up for a long 3-pt shot or deftly assisting a teammate.

They are both generational talents. While Paige was missing last year, Caitlin picked up the mantle and brought just attention to the women's game. The reason this comparison is occurring now is because Ms Buckets is healthy and reminding everybody of her genius and prowess on the court. If Clark was wearing a UConn uniform, I would be ecstatic, but I would still rate Paige the better overall player.

Finally, Iowa's best shot at a NC was last season. There are too many talented team for Iowa to go on a similar run like last season. Also, it would be close to impossible for Clark to top last year's tourney run. If, and it is a big if, Uconn and Paige especially remain healthy, they have a more realistic shot at making the NC game than Iowa. Mostly because they have the better chess pieces.