Paige Bueckers vs Caitlin Clark [merged thread]

[The deacon]

Caitlin will have better games, of course, and Paige will have worse shooting games, unfortunately. But here are stats that are fairly typical from last night that contrast these great players:

Paige: 6 steals and 2 blocks

Caitlin: 0 steals and 0 blocks

'Fairly typical,' Milford? Caitlin 'typically' has no steals or blocks, and Paige 'typically' has six steals? Let's have all the comparisons one wants, but that's cherry picking at its very best.

 

[The deacon]

A number of BYers were wrong. Last night was a clarified example. Paige shot 66 2/3% from the field, Caitlin shot 28%. The differences are stark. Paige is the smartest defensive player in women's basketball, maybe ever. She anticipates the second or third pass or move and it is just intuitive, That cannot be taught or learned.

Paige has a far superior intermediate game, which I would call a pull up game, and she stops and elevates vertically in classic form which makes that shot so deadly. Caitlin does not have a comparable pull up game. Paige is a brilliant passer, one of the most precise ever. Caitlin is also a great passer but not a pure passer like Paige. Caitlin has far greater range on her 3 ball than Paige but if you can drive like Paige and make moves like her the shooting percentages are going to be better but just not as thrilling.

Paige has something between the ears I have never seen. As I have posted several times, go see her play live from good seats and watch her eyes on defense. Then see how she is in perfect position to intercept the ball seconds later. You will say to yourself "How did she know?". She just does as the great ones all do. That is why she is the best player in women's basketball.

I only worry about her physically. I have written to the NCAA on several occasions regarding the creeping physicality in women's basketball. You saw it rear its ugly head again last night ion both games. It's a beautiful and pure sport as played by our best women's teams and I would like it to stay that way and Paige embodies the best the sport can be.

Lots of great points, BBallF. I don't feel you give Caitlin a fair shake, but you're right about all of Paige's wonderful abilities.

 

[Bone Dog]

I don't take an "evenhanded" approach to comparing these two great players. I think Paige is better, and by a wide margin. Why? Because basketball is a team sport and that means more than just getting assists. It means making your teammates better on every possession. Paige is simply much better than Caitlin at this.

You could really see it when Paige returned two seasons ago. The team breathed a collective sigh of relief just to have her diminished self on the floor again. The difference was palpable. And when she took her patchwork team to the NC based on astonishing heroics, held together by duct tape and paperclips as she was, it was unforgettable.

Yes, Caitlin took her team to an NC last season. But was it really a comparable achievement to what Paige did? I think not. She beat SC, but they were almost primed to lose precisely to a good perimeter shooting team. Their weakness was tailor-made for what Iowa was good at. But Paige's Huskies faced stronger teams at every step of the way and beat them at their strengths. Break Czinano's arm and give Warnock the flu just before the SC game and see how well Iowa does in that matchup.

Yes, Caitlin is a great offensive player and a pretty good defender. But she ain't no Paige. She'll have a fine career in the W, sort of like Adrian Dantley's in the NBA, and she'll make about as much of a mark as he did. Even if Paige never plays a game in the W, she's still the better player.

 

[Rdkid]

If you don’t look at either player’s defense, you can’t even begin to make a comparison. One is clearly a better defender - by stats and the eye test.

 

[Bone Dog]

OK, one last thing and then I'll shut up. Caitlin beats other teams with her perimeter shot, and her excellent drives to the basket. Paige beats other teams with her teammates, which she wields like a hammer or a conductor's baton depending on the circumstances.

But beyond this, I don't care for some aspects of Caitlin's game, and what I'm mainly thinking of is her way of hunting foul calls on her drives. This is beneath her. Paige knows how to draw fouls, to twist up an opponent so they can't help but foul her on a drive. But she doesn't take those dramatic dives at the end of layups merely to trick the ref into blowing the whistle. Caitlin used to be really bad about this her freshman year. Then Lisa Bluder told her to cut it out. I admire that. But these first few games, we're seeing the old Caitlin again, and I hope she realizes and cuts it out. Sometimes I find myself wishing some of these games were played on an asphalt court -- that would put an end to a lot of this chicanery. The top whistle-hunters in the game today: Caitlin, Deja Kelly, Taniya Latson. Not a group I'd want to be associated with.

 

[JellyBean]

Awhile back I started a thread implying that Paige was the best player in WBB. A number of BY’ers suggested, with justification, that the best player in WBB was Caitlin Clark.

The comparison between the two is obvious and appropriate. I do believe this question will continue so long as they both play basketball.

So here’s one comparative datapoint to consider. Last night both Paige and Clark scored 24 pts in their respective games. Paige had 24 points on 15 shots in a 32-point win against 20th ranked MD. Clark had 24 points on 32 shots in a 7-point loss to unranked K-State.

These two will be compared like Magic and Bird were back in the Day. Like Kobe and LeBron. I can't really think of the women's basketball comparison, but you get the point. They will forever be linked, especially if they come into the WNBA together or a year apart.

 

[Jaml]

A number of BYers were wrong. Last night was a clarified example. Paige shot 66 2/3% from the field, Caitlin shot 28%. The differences are stark. Paige is the smartest defensive player in women's basketball, maybe ever. She anticipates the second or third pass or move and it is just intuitive, That cannot be taught or learned.

Paige shot 66% from 3 and Caitlin shot 12.5% from 3. Caitlin is shooting 28.3% from 3 for the year, I think that is where you got the 28% from.

 

[The deacon]

I don't take an "evenhanded" approach to comparing these two great players. I think Paige is better, and by a wide margin. Why? Because basketball is a team sport and that means more than just getting assists. It means making your teammates better on every possession. Paige is simply much better than Caitlin at this.

You could really see it when Paige returned two seasons ago. The team breathed a collective sigh of relief just to have her diminished self on the floor again. The difference was palpable. And when she took her patchwork team to the NC based on astonishing heroics, held together by duct tape and paperclips as she was, it was unforgettable.

Yes, Caitlin took her team to an NC last season. But was it really a comparable achievement to what Paige did? I think not. She beat SC, but they were almost primed to lose precisely to a good perimeter shooting team. Their weakness was tailor-made for what Iowa was good at. But Paige's Huskies faced stronger teams at every step of the way and beat them at their strengths. Break Czinano's arm and give Warnock the flu just before the SC game and see how well Iowa does in that matchup.

Yes, Caitlin is a great offensive player and a pretty good defender. But she ain't no Paige. She'll have a fine career in the W, sort of like Adrian Dantley's in the NBA, and she'll make about as much of a mark as he did. Even if Paige never plays a game in the W, she's still the better player.

By a 'wide margin?'

South Carolina was 'primed to lose?' Really?

What Paige did in '21-22 was better than what Caitlin did last spring? In what universe other than yours? You occasionally kid on your posts... I hope this was one of those.

And, by the way, Paige hit the deck following numerous drives last night... what was that you were saying about how Caitlin shouldn't be doing that?

Frankly, to compare Clark to Dantley is just one of those 'where on earth did that come from?'

Caitlin and her teammates beat (better than this year) Maryland and Ohio State to win the Big Ten tournament then, along the way to the NCAA final, beat pretty good Georgia and then excellent Colorado, Louisville and South Carolina. UConn's path was 'stronger every step of the way' in '21-22?'

I'm baffled by your inability to appreciate Caitlin's brilliance as a player, Bone Dog, but to each his own. As I've said many times, Paige and Caitlin are different players playing in different playgrounds, with a very different set of circumstances. I love that we have both of them in our world.

 

[MooseJaw]

Gee, I think the point is to highlight pluses and minuses in what many consider to be the 2 best players in WCBB. Some of the questions to consider.
#1 Which player makes her teammates better?
#2 Which player plays better defense?
#3 which player gets her teammates more involved in games?
#4 Which player is more in command of the game?
#5 Which player, oh forget about any more questions, Clark shoots almost 50% more shots than Paige does. etc.
#6 Forget where I said above, about no more questions, just one more. For most on the BY who would you rather have leading our team? Yes forget about shooting percentages, taking the rock to the hole, dam, just say it. Paige!!!

 

[HuskyNan]

Paige is UConn's entire offense as well.

Huh? Yes, she has 24 points but there were 3 other players in double figures (Iowa had 1) and one with 9 points as did Iowa. KK and Nika has 5 assists each, Iowa had 9 total as a team. UConn was the more complete offensive team last night

 

[HuskyNan]

I worry both Paige and Caitlin will get roughed up this season. I hope Geno gives the freshman guards more time and take Paige out when she’s not needed

 

[oldude]

Clark forced a lot last night even after it was apparent nothing was working. It was rough to see.

Bingo!!!

I have commented before that Clark is the best shooter I have ever seen in WBB, and clearly she does not have the supporting cast that Paige has. But the point you highlight is what I consider to be Clark’s biggest and perhaps only flaw, if you don’t consider “not playing defense.”

On rare occasions, in the toughest games, Clark gets frustrated, sometimes forgets her teammates are on the floor and begins firing away from the cheap seats, rushing possessions by taking extremely difficult shots, even for her. I’ve seen this happen twice and evidently it happened again last night.

In the Phil Knight Classic last season, against a severely shorthanded UConn team, Nika was all over Clark like a second skin. As reported by Holly Rowe, during one timeout late in the game, Clark exhorted her teammates to get Nika off her by setting screens. For the game Clark shot 9/24 (2/11 from 3) as UConn won by 7.

The other time I’ve seen a frustrated Clark fire away while her teammates stood around watching was last year’s championship vs LSU. After Clark’s “masterpiece” in the national semifinals against SC, many assumed she would carry Iowa to their 1st National Championship. She was very good for awhile. But as LSU steadily built their lead, Clark began firing away. For the game Clark was 9/22 (8/19 from 3). That’s not terrible. But a lot of her misses were rushed, coming late in the game.

 

[The deacon]

Gee, I think the point is to highlight pluses and minuses in what many consider to be the 2 best players in WCBB. Some of the questions to consider.
#1 Which player makes her teammates better?
#2 Which player plays better defense?
#3 which player gets her teammates more involved in games?
#4 Which player is more in command of the game?
#5 Which player, oh forget about any more questions, Clark shoots almost 50% more shots than Paige does. etc.
#6 Forget where I said above, about no more questions, just one more. For most on the BY who would you rather have leading our team? Yes forget about shooting percentages, taking the rock to the hole, dam, just say it. Paige!!!

Good points, Moosejaw... and if you asked the same questions on the Iowa fan forum, don't you think you might get different responses?

 

[CL82]

Why would he do that?

 

[CL82]

I worry both Paige and Caitlin will get roughed up this season. I hope Geno gives the freshman guards more time and take Paige out when she’s not needed

So, like the bulk of the Big East season?

Between now and then we've got quite a gauntlet we need to go through.

 

[sun]

If this were a poll question I would vote for Clark because of her overall record of accomplishment, her superhuman shooting, dribbling & passing ability under pressure.
That doesn't mean that Paige can't become better than Clark now that she's been forced to reinvent herself.

If Clark & Paige had to switch teams with each other, I tend to think that UConn might have been able to progress further than Paige being on Iowa in their respective NCAAT NC games.
But that's just speculation.
Clark did help Iowa make history in the Big 10 which is a much tougher conference than the Big East.

I'm pretty sure that they're friends & admire each other's talents because they've played on the same team together.
It's a shame that they need to be compared because just like QB's they're both unique players in their own right.
Rating them is very subjective but so far the heroics seem to lean in Clark's favor.
It's not Clark's fault that Paige has had injuries that has affected her developement.
What was isn't what is nor what will be in the future.
They're alot like fraternal twins & each had amaxzing abilities.
Most likely only one will win a NC unless they can both be on the same team next year.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Awhile back I started a thread implying that Paige was the best player in WBB. A number of BY’ers suggested, with justification, that the best player in WBB was Caitlin Clark.

The comparison between the two is obvious and appropriate. I do believe this question will continue so long as they both play basketball.

So here’s one comparative datapoint to consider. Last night both Paige and Clark scored 24 pts in their respective games. Paige had 24 points on 15 shots in a 32-point win against 20th ranked MD. Clark had 24 points on 32 shots in a 7-point loss to unranked K-State.

When comparing the stats of both players don’t forget to take into account that UConn plays a far tougher schedule than Iowa. Thus Paige goes up against far tougher competition than Clark does. Even considering just last nights games, if Maryland plays K State tomorrow my bet is on Maryland, even though Maryland was blown out by 40 some odd points and Iowa vs K State was close.

 

[and one]

Comparing players is always tough - different teams, systems, coaches and what not. For me, I take Paige over Caitlin every time. Caitlin is a scorer and a really good one. But like all high volume shooters, up to and including Steph Curry, some days the shots just don't fall. Paige has a much better all around game than Caitlin to fall back on during those days.

 

[Postie]

If Catlin played for UConn, and Paige played for Iowa I am sure everyone would say Catlin is better

 

[BBallF]

Paige shot 66% from 3 and Caitlin shot 12.5% from 3. Caitlin is shooting 28.3% from 3 for the year, I think that is where you got the 28% from.

Understood. However, Caitlin was 9-32 from the field last night for 35%. Paige was 66 2/3% from the field last night. How many points would Paige have in a given game if she shot 32 times?

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Understood. However, Caitlin was 9-32 from the field last night for 35%. Paige was 66 2/3% from the field last night. How many points would Paige have in a given game if she shot 32 times?

Not only that, how many points would Paige have in a given game if she shot 32 times last night against Kansas State.

 

[Bone Dog]

By a 'wide margin?'

South Carolina was 'primed to lose?' Really?

What Paige did in '21-22 was better than what Caitlin did last spring? In what universe other than yours? You occasionally kid on your posts... I hope this was one of those.

And, by the way, Paige hit the deck following numerous drives last night... what was that you were saying about how Caitlin shouldn't be doing that?

Frankly, to compare Clark to Dantley is just one of those 'where on earth did that come from?'

Caitlin and her teammates beat (better than this year) Maryland and Ohio State to win the Big Ten tournament then, along the way to the NCAA final, beat pretty good Georgia and then excellent Colorado, Louisville and South Carolina. UConn's path was 'stronger every step of the way' in '21-22?'

I'm baffled by your inability to appreciate Caitlin's brilliance as a player, Bone Dog, but to each his own. As I've said many times, Paige and Caitlin are different players playing in different playgrounds, with a very different set of circumstances. I love that we have both of them in our world.

You're cherry picking here.

Yes, many observers had noticed SC's vulnerability in perimeter shooting. And I never said Caitlin didn't play really well, even heroically, in that game.

Yes, Paige hit the floor a few times. But watch the tape and tell me if those were hunting whistles or the result of actual contact or being actually off-balance as the shot required. Denying it just sounds snarky. Everyone here knows Caitlin often used to simply throw herself on the floor as part of a drive. I sincerely hope she doesn't revert to the practice any more.

Yes, I believe Paige's return in 21-22 was a greater achievement than what Caitlin did. You are free to disagree. Paige did more with less, and didn't get any lucky breaks. Her team got every unlucky break imaginable and she still carried them to the NC game. You can try to conceal this by neglecting all the relevant distinctions, but it won't change the truth.

And you know exactly where the Dantley comparison comes from. He was another great scorer who didn't consistently make his teams better. That's always been the knock on Caitlin too. Let's see if she can grow as a player this year.

And I have repeatedly said I think Caitlin is a great player -- and then I've characterized the ways in which she is great and the ways she is a limited player, too. Rather like Dantley was. I can't fathom why you object to this. Surely you're not saying he wasn't a great player, are you???

I'd like to see Iowa succeed this year, maybe make another NC run. I'd also love to see an Iowa-UConn game. That would be wonderful, though I have no doubt as to the result: Paige would engineer a win and Caitlin would have glossy stats.

Please feel free to disagree with me. Just try not to talk as though anyone who disagrees with you must be out of their minds. That's not a great way to defend Caitlin.

 

[Childhood]

Huh? Yes, she has 24 points but there were 3 other players in double figures (Iowa had 1) and one with 9 points as did Iowa. KK and Nika has 5 assists each, Iowa had 9 total as a team. UConn was the more complete offensive team last night




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When you played 37min and took 32 shots, almost one shot per minute. And the second most teammate only took 6 shots, how can you expect someone to score more points besides you.

 

[BBallF]

Not only that, how many points would Paige have in a given game if she shot 32 times last night against Kansas State.

The number probably has a 4 or a 5 in front of it.

 

[BBallF]

Lots of great points, BBallF. I don't feel you give Caitlin a fair shake, but you're right about all of Paige's wonderful abilities.

Well, CC is a great player and has brought a lot of attention to women's college basketball which is great and she has phenomenal range on her 3s and is a great story about a kid staying in her home state and becoming revered by its citizens. I would watch her anytime but if I am picking my 5 players, I pick Paige first every time. It's between the ears.