OT - Boxing, Decline, Cotto, Floyd, MMA

[Fishy]

All right - that's enough trolling. I know one thing - Mayweather would kill me with one punch and I'd probably have a hard time touching him (as in, like, tag), forget about actually hitting him.

I think it's kinda like having court side seats at a hoop game or watching an MLB pitcher up close - everything looks fast on TV...and then you see it up close and think, "holy duck*, these people are not human".

My brother and I had near ringside seats for one of Mike Tyson's fights when he was a local phenom and we also got to see him spar in the gym in Catskill. It was inhuman - I was amazed that the person he was hitting was not being killed 42 times a round.

 

[Chin Diesel]

MMA does have a younger audience beause there is more action and less technique. The MMA fighters aren't nearly the athletes boxers are but that has been and will continue to change as MMA becomes more lucrative. It is sort of like baseball in the old days. The best athletes went into baseball because they made more money than any other sport.
MMA is easier for fans to understand and will continue to grow while boxing declines.

Its tough to be wrong in so many ways in one post but you pulled it off.

MMA athletes are much better athletes than boxers. Boxers are a one trick pony and they're phenomenal at it performing it. But in his entire training camp and prep for the fight, Mayweather spent less than one second training on take down defense, avoiding kicks, wrestling, working off of his back or how to maintain his pulse and composure with a forearm across his chest.

Boxers are historically some of the worst athletes outside of their realm (Roy Jones, Jr being the obvious exception). Go back an watch some of the old Battle of the Superstars where boxers needed swimmies to avoid drowning in pools and couldn't make contact in any stick/ball sport.

Boxing is like checkers and t-ball. They have to prepare to fight in a contest where they can only be hit with the fist above the waist. Not too complicated. But they don't have the physical structure, strength or coordination to fight an elite MMA fighter.

Bottom line, a champion boxer would beat an MMA fight in boxing rules, an MMA figher beats a boxer in the octogon using MMA rules and an MMA fighter kills a boxer in an alley.

 

[stick]

That was a pretty good fight - unfortunately, Floyd's style is just not a good one for a casual fan. It's like Bernard Hopkins...you can appreciate how he does what he does, but it doesn't mean you have to enjoy watching him do it.

The fans were rooting for Cotto - I am sure they understood that their guy lost, but they didn't have to like it. (I tend to notice that Jim Lampley is usually the last person in the world to understand what is happening in a boxing ring.)

Boxing, as a spectator sport, is dying - it's corrupt and poorly run. Bad match ups, bad decisions and things like the WBC erode the sports credibility. And PPV has made a lot of people rich while making the sport much poorer. Forget MMA, though. It had its 15 minutes and will be a memory by the time boxing craters.

Everything you say about boxing is pretty much spot on. However, MMA's 15 minutes are up? The sport is probably the fastest growing sport in the world. The elite guys are all making more money than anyone in boxing minus Mayweather & Pacman. I've been a fan of both sports for a long time and MMA. UFC (Dana White) supposedly learned the mistakes of boxing and its demise of the formation of too many organizations and will never allow it to happen.

UFC now has 2-3 outlets for fans to watch for free in FX, Fox & Spike. The PPV numbers for Jones-Evans was 700,000. At this point, I'd rather watch any UFC event than just about any boxing event and it's not even close. UFC is doing a pretty good job marketing & building their sport. Boxing is in a tough spot as I believe that their fan base is much older. MMA is doing very good numbers in the 18-49 crowd.

 

[stick]

Its tough to be wrong in so many ways in one post but you pulled it off.

MMA athletes are much better athletes than boxers. Boxers are a one trick pony and they're phenomenal at it performing it. But in his entire training camp and prep for the fight, Mayweather spent less than one second training on take down defense, avoiding kicks, wrestling, working off of his back or how to maintain his pulse and composure with a forearm across his chest.

Boxers are historically some of the worst athletes outside of their realm (Roy Jones, Jr being the obvious exception). Go back an watch some of the old Battle of the Superstars where boxers needed swimmies to avoid drowning in pools and couldn't make contact in any stick/ball sport.

Boxing is like checkers and t-ball. They have to prepare to fight in a contest where they can only be hit with the fist above the waist. Not too complicated. But they don't have the physical structure, strength or coordination to fight an elite MMA fighter.

Bottom line, a champion boxer would beat an MMA fight in boxing rules, an MMA figher beats a boxer in the octogon using MMA rules and an MMA fighter kills a boxer in an alley.

People don't seem to understand these points. For the ones who criticize MMA, I wonder if they've ever seen Anderson Silva, BJ Penn and others and seen their martial arts skill level. Yeah, there are some boring fighters and boring fights, but on one MMA card your gonna see some decent action.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Boxing isn't where is was, but I love all the boxing is dead stories as Floyd and Manny continue to set pay-per-view record after pay-per-view record. And PBF clearly won that fight last night.

 

[UConn5]

Boxing's popularity is undoubtedly waning, but I think a Mayweather/Paquiao bout could go a long way to fixing it. I also think that the fact that the top two heavyweights in the world are brothers that won't fight each other. I don't blame them for not wanting to do it...I just think the circumstances aren't great for the sport.

 

[GemParty]

I love both boxing & MMA. I guess I like seeing guys get hit. The MMA model, basically filled the needs of everything boxing didn't. Fights monthly, fights Free on a few channels or in local bars, Great violance & action, clear results often by TKO, KO, and Tap outs VS bad decisions- where you felt ripped off, by judges fixing the outcomes, bought by XX promoter. Plus you can see more stars more often, and lastly, less concern over the "0" losses. In MMA nobody cares about your 30-0 record, we just want the Best vs Best.

What can Fix boxing again. #1 you NEED AN AMERICAN HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP with charisma or intrigue. Where the HELL is that NEW Young guy that can kick these, Dr Hammer, Klitchko twins?? Become a household name. Out of Philly, the Bronx, Chicago, Detroit? Short of that you need more of the things MMA has been doing to grow a new Fan base. Everybody knew Tyson, Holyfield, Roy Jones, Trinidad, De La Hoya, Behop. Now the average fan might know 2 or 3 guys. Christmas comes more often than a BIG Fight. Needs to change.

 

[Reno]

Its tough to be wrong in so many ways in one post but you pulled it off.

MMA athletes are much better athletes than boxers. Boxers are a one trick pony and they're phenomenal at it performing it. But in his entire training camp and prep for the fight, Mayweather spent less than one second training on take down defense, avoiding kicks, wrestling, working off of his back or how to maintain his pulse and composure with a forearm across his chest.

Boxers are historically some of the worst athletes outside of their realm (Roy Jones, Jr being the obvious exception). Go back an watch some of the old Battle of the Superstars where boxers needed swimmies to avoid drowning in pools and couldn't make contact in any stick/ball sport.

Boxing is like checkers and t-ball. They have to prepare to fight in a contest where they can only be hit with the fist above the waist. Not too complicated. But they don't have the physical structure, strength or coordination to fight an elite MMA fighter.

Bottom line, a champion boxer would beat an MMA fight in boxing rules, an MMA figher beats a boxer in the octogon using MMA rules and an MMA fighter kills a boxer in an alley.

This is laughable. A MMA fighter wouldn't even be able to touch a boxer, let alone take them down.

 

[Reno]

I love both boxing & MMA. I guess I like seeing guys get hit. The MMA model, basically filled the needs of everything boxing didn't. Fights monthly, fights Free on a few channels or in local bars, Great violance & action, clear results often by TKO, KO, and Tap outs VS bad decisions- where you felt ripped off, by judges fixing the outcomes, bought by XX promoter. Plus you can see more stars more often, and lastly, less concern over the "0" losses. In MMA nobody cares about your 30-0 record, we just want the Best vs Best.

What can Fix boxing again. #1 you NEED AN AMERICAN HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP with charisma or intrigue. Where the HELL is that NEW Young guy that can kick these, Dr Hammer, Klitchko twins?? Become a household name. Out of Philly, the Bronx, Chicago, Detroit? Short of that you need more of the things MMA has been doing to grow a new Fan base. Everybody knew Tyson, Holyfield, Roy Jones, Trinidad, De La Hoya, Behop. Now the average fan might know 2 or 3 guys. Christmas comes more often than a BIG Fight. Needs to change.

I think the health concerns in these sports scare off top athletes unless they're from the most dire of circumstances. You'd have to be an idiot to do either with what we know about brain injuries these days.

 

[GemParty]

This is laughable. A MMA fighter wouldn't even be able to touch a boxer, let alone take them down.

I guess you missed James Lights Out Toney, MMA match vs Randy Couture.

 

[Burnsbros23]

Everything you say about boxing is pretty much spot on. However, MMA's 15 minutes are up? The sport is probably the fastest growing sport in the world. The elite guys are all making more money than anyone in boxing minus Mayweather & Pacman. I've been a fan of both sports for a long time and MMA. UFC (Dana White) supposedly learned the mistakes of boxing and its demise of the formation of too many organizations and will never allow it to happen.

UFC now has 2-3 outlets for fans to watch for free in FX, Fox & Spike. The PPV numbers for Jones-Evans was 700,000. At this point, I'd rather watch any UFC event than just about any boxing event and it's not even close. UFC is doing a pretty good job marketing & building their sport. Boxing is in a tough spot as I believe that their fan base is much older. MMA is doing very good numbers in the 18-49 crowd.

Actually UFC elite guys dont make very much compared to boxers. The guy who fought on the undercard of the Mayweather vs Cotto fight makes more than the best UFC guys. his purse was 1.2 million. There are many boxer who make more than the top UFC guys who make about 400,000 per fight. Which was why you see soo many people getting on Dana White.

 

[Chin Diesel]

This is laughable. A MMA fighter wouldn't even be able to touch a boxer, let alone take them down.

You are entitled to your opinion and as long as both sports ars profitable we won't see a crossover performer in his prime swithover to give fans an answer to the question of which sport is more complex.
Keep in mind in suggesting boxers are better fighters and quicker you are suggesting that a sport which uses fewer parts of the body for striking and for defense, has a smaller area if the body to defend and can only be fought on its feet creates superior fighters than a sport that uses more parts for striking and defense, requires defending the whole body and can be fought on feet or on the ground.
Its your opinion and you are entitled to it and it can't be proven or disproven in either ring.

 

[Burnsbros23]

I guess you missed James Lights Out Toney, MMA match vs Randy Couture.

That was not a prime Toney to say the least. Thats like having some out of shape UFC guy come over to fight Bernard Hopkins.

 

[stick]

This is laughable. A MMA fighter wouldn't even be able to touch a boxer, let alone take them down.

Man, you really are ignorant. I've followed boxing for most of my life and it's pretty obvious you either don't have a critical eye or you've never seen an MMA fight. Just youtube and see one of Anderson Silva's destruction of Rich Franklin with a Muay Thai clinch and knees.

 

[GemParty]

That was not a prime Toney to say the least. Thats like having some ****ty out of shape UFC guy come over to fight Bernard Hopkins.

Keep in mind Randy was also on the Back 9 of his career. It's the closest way to answer an argument of who might win a fight. Two old guys, Both Great in their prime, in a fight. The boxer was lost in a Cage. I'm sure he would have been lost in an alley too.

 

[stick]

Actually UFC elite guys dont make very much compared to boxers. The guy who fought on the undercard of the Mayweather vs Cotto fight makes more than the best UFC guys. his purse was 1.2 million. There are many boxer who make more than the top UFC guys who make about 400,000 per fight. Which was why you see soo many people getting on Dana White.

Not true. The prize money they list is not accurate. The UFC chooses not to publicize "undisclosed bonuses". St. Pierre & Silva make $5-6 Million. Jones is probably making near that. Even a few years back, Liddell & Ortiz were making more than $1 mm. St. Pierre & Jon Jones also have pretty decent endorsement deals.

 

[GemParty]

This is a Fun discussion. Keep in mind Boxing is a more controlled enviroment. All you do is punch. It's not fair to take a boxer and stick him in a Cage, where he would be on the ground in a matter of moments, or getting kneed, stomped, elbowed, etc. The submissions alone would make him pee his pants. Take some of todays belt holders, Klitchko 2, Pacman, Floyd, Malinaggi. Put them walking in downtown Hartford and they encounter Jon Jones, GSP, Anderson Silva, Nate Diaz, BJ Penn, Frank Mir. I'd take the Cage fighter all day- to be the only one leaving healthy, if a fight broke out. Way to many weapons, including an above average punch for the Cage guy. Nobody's better defensively rolling his shoulders than Floyd. He's the Gold standard. He would have his arms ripped off.

 

[Burnsbros23]

Even if they dont disclose this I cant find one article saying they make over a million? And both boxers and MMA guys have endorsement deals.

I know couture was old too when he fought Toney But he had been competitive in some of his recent fights. Toney hadn't been competitive in boxing for sometime at the point he decided to cross over clearly a money grab by him. If GSP came to a boxing ring to fight Andre Ward he would get murdered and Ward went to UFC to find GSP he would get taken down in 5 seconds. Until a prime fighter switches over and takes the training of the other sport very seriously we won't know who will win.

 

[stick]

Here's a link. Check Overeem's pay after 2 fights in the UFC on the side article. UFC Salary article

 

[GemParty]

I will say this. Kimbo Slice, who's discipline was (brawler), nowhere near the skill of high end boxers, did mash a few MMA guys before he washed out of the UFC. There's lots to learn and defend. Yet sometimes, one or two good punches can end Any fight. The Great MMA guys will have 6-7 different coaches from standup to ground, clinches, submissions etc. working with them. I believe Freddie Roach, one of the Greatest teachers, has helped a half dozen MMA guys prepare.

On a side note, Freddie also worked with Hartford's own Champion, Marlon "Magic Man" Starling for a period of time.

 

[Burnsbros23]

Yah ur right the 29 fighters who get part of the ppv all gotta be making good money.

Overeem brings up another issue for UFC steroids dudes testerone levels were 10:1 when he got caught and Sonnens were 16:1 when he fought Silva.

 

[huskypantz]

Actually UFC elite guys dont make very much compared to boxers. The guy who fought on the undercard of the Mayweather vs Cotto fight makes more than the best UFC guys. his purse was 1.2 million. There are many boxer who make more than the top UFC guys who make about 400,000 per fight. Which was why you see soo many people getting on Dana White.

UFC only discloses their show/win/bonus payouts. Word on the street was that Jones made $3 per PPV buy. If the number was 700k, that got him $2.1 million in addition to $400k in disclosed payroll. Not on boxing's level, but not bad if you consider he can fight 2-4 times per year. I don't have hard facts, but there are supposedly about 20 or so UFC fighters with PPV-related bonus. http://mmapayout.com/2012/05/ufc-left-off-of-espn-salary-list-for-lack-of-information/
http://mmapayout.com/2012/05/ufc-left-off-of-espn-salary-list-for-lack-of-information/

 

[johnhuskies95]

I just can't get in to MMA. I much prefer boxing where it takes more patience and mental strength to win a fight. MMA fights just don't last very long.

 

[TheChamps990411]

lol! it amazes me how some of you know absolutely zero about the fight game. let me put this simply. a boxer has about as much chance of beating a mma in the cage as kobe bryant does of hitting a homerun off cc sabathia. he may get lucky and hit one out but 99/100 he`ll likely not hit it out of the park and will strike out most of the time. now that being said the same could also be said the other way around. a mma against a boxer in the ring will get obliterated 99/100 times.
take for instance anderson silva perhaps the greatest mixed martial artist in the history of the sport who stands 6`2 185 when he steps in the cage. put him in the ring against 6`2 175 bernard hopkins and silva would likely not get out of the first round and bhop is not a knockout artist by any stretch. ive actually seen silva in a boxing ring working on his boxing and to say the least his skill level was amateur at best. striking in mma is far different than punching in boxing. now if you took bernard hopkins and put him in the cage against silva it would likely last about a minute or two if bernard could even stay away that long.
now whether its in the ring or a cage if an mma tries to stand and exchange with a boxer its going to end badly in all likely hood for the mma because the level of striking in mma is just not at the level of a world class fighter.
i find the mma vs boxer arguement idiotic because its already been proven what would happen in two cases with the exact result youd expect. ray mercer fought tim sylvia and tim was stupid enough to try to stand with ray and got ko`d quickly and we all know what happened to james toney against randy couture. in the post fight interview randy was asked if he would now fight james in a boxing match and he declined saying the result would be him getting ko`d rather quickly by toney.as far as boxers not being great athletes that is so ignorant and unimformed its not worth spending much more time even addressing it.
as far as a street fight goes mma over a boxer and vise versa is irrelevent. street fights have no rules. there is biting,eye gouging,kick to the nolos etc. and no ropes or cage to work off of. i seen a mma try to armbar a guy in the street and the guy managed to scoop the guy up before his arm gave and slammed the guy on his head. out cold. head cracked open. blood everywhere. the one guy id take in a street fight over anyone would be bas rutten. not because hes an mma but because hes been in numerous street brawls throughout his life before and after he learned mma.

 

[TheChamps990411]

I just can't get in to MMA. I much prefer boxing where it takes more patience and mental strength to win a fight. MMA fights just don't last very long.

you sound like you dont know the sport. learn the sport first then watch it youll see very differently. i thought just like you. all i saw was two guys either just rolling around on the ground or walking around in circles just throwing haymakers. its kind of like when someone doesnt understand football and all they see is a guy run a couple feet and get piled on by a bunch of other players but they dont understand everything that just happened and why it happened.