OT - Boxing, Decline, Cotto, Floyd, MMA

[Frank Ivy]

Tonight's fight is a good example of why boxing is a virtually dead sport. You also see it in the Klitchko fights. For 12 rounds I listened to the announcers nut-hug Floyd, telling the audience how great a fighter he was. At the end of the fight, the announcers said something to the effect of - the audience doesn't know that Floyd has won, because they can't see how great he is.

Huh? The fans can't tell who won? Is there any other sport where the fans can't tell who won? Even in figure skating the casual fan can generally ID the talent on the ice.

I'm sure there are purists out there who can go into great detail about how Floyd dodged all the shots, landed better punches, and so on. Meh. What I saw was a guy avoiding contact for most of the 12 rounds. Not only was it boring to a casual fan, it made me wonder - is there no penalty for running? The score cards had him winning 8 or 9 rounds? Didn't seem like that to me.

One of the reasons that MMA is taking fans from boxing is because it's generally a losing strategy to run around dodging a guy and slapping at him to "out point" him to a win, and with few exceptions (shogun/machida) you don't get decisions that make the fans think the fight is rigged.

 

[Walker11]

I thought it was pretty clear that Floyd won and I was mainly watching with the volume on mute (as I watched Eli surprisingly funny yet totally awkward on SNL).

The crowd was likely going crazy because everyone wants Floyd to lose. I think it was pretty obvious that he was avoiding Cotto and landing the clean shots, but you are correct in that it was no fun to watch. I will never pay to watch Floyd unless he grows some balls and fights Manny. He was never the aggressor and there were probably 5 interesting 10 second stretches in a 36 minute fight - not a good ratio.

The problem isn't really boxing, it is that Floyd is the best fighter and he is really boring to watch.

I think MMA is becoming so popular because you actually see the best fighters facing each other. This does not happen in boxing due to absurd boxing politics. It is also usually more entertaining, unless they take it to the ground.

 

[uconnbill]

Floyd won fairly easily and hit Cotto a number of times without being touched or barely touched. I remember Ali doing what Floyd did tonight and the fans loved it. He is just not a popular fighter, but he is the best in my opinion.

 

[huskiesnyc]

If boxing was a dead sport "Money May" wouldn't be taking home over $50 million

 

[johnhuskies95]

Say what you want about Floyd, but he is just an incredible fighter. He rolls his shoulders so well that Cotto pinned him into the corner a couple times and could barely touch him.

He's just absurdly quick.

 

[Fishy]

That was a pretty good fight - unfortunately, Floyd's style is just not a good one for a casual fan. It's like Bernard Hopkins...you can appreciate how he does what he does, but it doesn't mean you have to enjoy watching him do it.

The fans were rooting for Cotto - I am sure they understood that their guy lost, but they didn't have to like it. (I tend to notice that Jim Lampley is usually the last person in the world to understand what is happening in a boxing ring.)

Boxing, as a spectator sport, is dying - it's corrupt and poorly run. Bad match ups, bad decisions and things like the WBC erode the sports credibility. And PPV has made a lot of people rich while making the sport much poorer. Forget MMA, though. It had its 15 minutes and will be a memory by the time boxing craters.

 

[sammydabiz]

Not sure where the OP is coming from, but that was the best fight I've seen from MoneyMay since de la hoya. He truly showed just how technically talented he is by easily outboxing one of the best to ever do it in Cotto. I was 100% satisfied with the fight, not to mention the Mosley and Alvarez undercard too, great night for boxing. Never been an MMA fan, if both players weren't allowed to go to ground, maybe, but for me the chess of boxxing, beats out the MMA checkers.

 

[coachRD]

Not sure where the OP is coming from, but that was the best fight I've seen from MoneyMay since de la hoya. He truly showed just how technically talented he is by easily outboxing one of the best to ever do it in Cotto. I was 100% satisfied with the fight, not to mention the Mosley and Alvarez undercard too, great night for boxing. Never been an MMA fan, if both players weren't allowed to go to ground, maybe, but for me the chess of boxxing, beats out the MMA checkers.

I enjoy both boxing and MMA. As for MMA being "checkers" to boxing's "chess," you should check out fighters who are really good at Brazilian JJ. The moves and counter-moves in BJJ are off the charts in terms of complexity. I agree that quite a few MMA fights don't feature fighters who work the BJJ aspect of the fight and they often become JV versions of boxing, but the range of skills and techniques in BJJ can't be found in any other combat sport out there. Watching 2 MMA fighters who go to their BJJ skills is awesome.
Me-I don't have a "favorite" in the boxing vs MMA debate....I'm just glad I can enjoy BOTH of these great sports.

 

[Frank Ivy]

Not sure where the OP is coming from, but that was the best fight I've seen from MoneyMay since de la hoya. He truly showed just how technically talented he is . . .

This probably sums up, in large part, why boxing is at where it's at. As a once regular fan of heavyweight boxing, and now a very casual observer of boxing, if last night's fight was the best in a while, then holy cow things are worse than I thought.

 

[UCHuskies08]

If boxing was a dead sport "Money May" wouldn't be taking home over $50 million

This is the wrong way to look at it. Yeah, one guy gets a huge payday, what, once or twice a year? Compare that plus the smaller boxing payouts to the the total NFL or NBA salaries paid out, which number in the billions per year.

There are one or two days a year where boxing is relevant to people who aren't hardcore boxing fans (all 10 of those people).

 

[aceboon]

What a bizarro ass post. Floyd wasn't the aggressor? What in the world were you watching last night? As for the tired and lame "grow some balls" or chicken references that people keep trotting out, if you guys don't know the history b/w Floyd and Arum and why because of Arum this fight will never probably happen then you need to do some research. I had to lmao @ Yukoris Gamboa last night in Floyds entourage, hopefully he broke free of Arum in the same manner that Floyd did and now he can make some money without Arum leeching most of it off of him.

I thought it was pretty clear that Floyd won and I was mainly watching with the volume on mute (as I watched Eli surprisingly funny yet totally awkward on SNL).

The crowd was likely going crazy because everyone wants Floyd to lose. I think it was pretty obvious that he was avoiding Cotto and landing the clean shots, but you are correct in that it was no fun to watch. I will never pay to watch Floyd unless he grows some balls and fights Manny. He was never the aggressor and there were probably 5 interesting 10 second stretches in a 36 minute fight - not a good ratio.

The problem isn't really boxing, it is that Floyd is the best fighter and he is really boring to watch.

I think MMA is becoming so popular because you actually see the best fighters facing each other. This does not happen in boxing due to absurd boxing politics. It is also usually more entertaining, unless they take it to the ground.

 

[Frank Ivy]

Say what you want about Floyd, but he is just an incredible fighter.

I don't agree. He's an incredible boxer. No doubt. In the ring, with the gloves, and the rules, and the judges, and no penalty for avoiding contact, he's an incredible boxer. Perhaps the best ever.

But let's not confuse that with being an incredible "fighter."

This is one of the reasons that MMA appeals more to the younger audience than does boxing. MMA is fighting, with a minimum of rules to prevent severe injury. It's an organized bar fight, essentially, where the guy who is the better fighter generally wins.

When boxing arbitrarily went from bare-knuckles to puffy gloves, it changed from a limited form of fighting to the sport we know of as "boxing." Love it or hate it, it is what it is, but it hardly resembles fighting, and if I'm ever backed into a corner and I need a friend to help fight out of it, I'm picking Cotto well before Mayweather, because bobbing and weaving and hopping and skipping around a ring for 12 rounds gets you killed in a real fight.

 

[Burnsbros23]

The assumption that MMA is taking over for boxing is just wrong. Bones Jons fights sell about 500,000 ppv buys Last night fight for Floyd might have done over 1.5 million. Floyd isnt the most entertaining fighter in the world so if you only watch his one fight a year then yah you might think its boring. I just watch Bones Jones vs Evans and thought that fight was incredible boring. If you wanna see more entertaining fights watch Amir Khan vs Peterson or Victor Ortiz vs Andre Berto.

 

[Danzz]

I don't agree. He's an incredible boxer. No doubt. In the ring, with the gloves, and the rules, and the judges, and no penalty for avoiding contact, he's an incredible boxer. Perhaps the best ever.

But let's not confuse that with being an incredible "fighter."

This is one of the reasons that MMA appeals more to the younger audience than does boxing. MMA is fighting, with a minimum of rules to prevent severe injury. It's an organized bar fight, essentially, where the guy who is the better fighter generally wins.

When boxing arbitrarily went from bare-knuckles to puffy gloves, it changed from a limited form of fighting to the sport we know of as "boxing." Love it or hate it, it is what it is, but it hardly resembles fighting, and if I'm ever backed into a corner and I need a friend to help fight out of it, I'm picking Cotto well before Mayweather, because bobbing and weaving and hopping and skipping around a ring for 12 rounds gets you killed in a real fight.

MMA does have a younger audience beause there is more action and less technique. The MMA fighters aren't nearly the athletes boxers are but that has been and will continue to change as MMA becomes more lucrative. It is sort of like baseball in the old days. The best athletes went into baseball because they made more money than any other sport.
MMA is easier for fans to understand and will continue to grow while boxing declines.

 

[johnhuskies95]

I don't agree. He's an incredible boxer. No doubt. In the ring, with the gloves, and the rules, and the judges, and no penalty for avoiding contact, he's an incredible boxer. Perhaps the best ever.

But let's not confuse that with being an incredible "fighter."

This is one of the reasons that MMA appeals more to the younger audience than does boxing. MMA is fighting, with a minimum of rules to prevent severe injury. It's an organized bar fight, essentially, where the guy who is the better fighter generally wins.

When boxing arbitrarily went from bare-knuckles to puffy gloves, it changed from a limited form of fighting to the sport we know of as "boxing." Love it or hate it, it is what it is, but it hardly resembles fighting, and if I'm ever backed into a corner and I need a friend to help fight out of it, I'm picking Cotto well before Mayweather, because bobbing and weaving and hopping and skipping around a ring for 12 rounds gets you killed in a real fight.

Don't be ridiculous. If you're backed into a corner, either Floyd or Cotto would get you out of it, unless you're going against one of the Klitschko brothers.

Also Floyd is so quick that hardly anybody could beat him in a "streetfight". He might get roughed up a bit, but eventually he'd win.

 

[Burnsbros23]

Cmon.... You think your average joe tough guy could beat mayweather in a street fight? he would see every punch coming a mile away.

 

[sammydabiz]

This probably sums up, in large part, why boxing is at where it's at. As a once regular fan of heavyweight boxing, and now a very casual observer of boxing, if last night's fight was the best in a while, then holy cow things are worse than I thought.

This is common response of someone who isn't a boxing fan, but rather a casual fan of the sport who only watches for knockouts. Personally I'd rather watch a good 12 round boxing match, than a 2nd rd knockout. Give me Hagler-Hearns than any Tyson fight. Boxing is as much mental as it is physical, and when somebody (mayweather) exhibits true skill, such as he did yesterday boxing almost turns into an art and IMO must watch television. Yes, boxing has lost its luster, primarily due to the absence of the heavyweights, but I don't think boxing will totally lose their audience.....especially to MMA

 

[partial]

This might be a good representation of what happens when I visit my parents and me and my dad both eye the remote.

 

[DrewDog85]

That was a pretty good fight - unfortunately, Floyd's style is just not a good one for a casual fan. It's like Bernard Hopkins...you can appreciate how he does what he does, but it doesn't mean you have to enjoy watching him do it.

The fans were rooting for Cotto - I am sure they understood that their guy lost, but they didn't have to like it. (I tend to notice that Jim Lampley is usually the last person in the world to understand what is happening in a boxing ring.)

Boxing, as a spectator sport, is dying - it's corrupt and poorly run. Bad match ups, bad decisions and things like the WBC erode the sports credibility. And PPV has made a lot of people rich while making the sport much poorer. Forget MMA, though. It had its 15 minutes and will be a memory by the time boxing craters.

Fishy Great Post!

 

[DrewDog85]

MMA does have a younger audience beause there is more action and less technique. The MMA fighters aren't nearly the athletes boxers are but that has been and will continue to change as MMA becomes more lucrative. It is sort of like baseball in the old days. The best athletes went into baseball because they made more money than any other sport.
MMA is easier for fans to understand and will continue to grow while boxing declines.

I have to disagree Danzzz I've been around both and MMA guys are just as athletic as Boxing guys.

If Maywether was a MMA fighter all the wrestling and Submission techniques could very well cause him to lose that eye popping hand speed..

 

[Frank Ivy]

Sammy - I completely respect that you love watching boxing for the skill. Like I said, it's a personal taste. You're right about me though - I thought, and still think, that Iron Mike in his prime was the greatest fighter ever. Ali's running around crap would have been a death sentence if the two of them fought in their prime. That's the difference between your love of art and my love of fighting. Tyson is the closest boxing has come to having a true fighter in the ring. He would have been a hellatious MMA fighter, and you'd be a fool not to take Tyson first as your buddy in a street fight.

I'm kind of a "Sammy" when it comes to MMA because I like the ground game, and I don't mind watching 3 minutes of guys struggling for a superior position, with no real strikes landed. Of course, that doesn't sell well, so the rules in MMA have now been moved toward making guys always "do" something. In other words, you can't just tie a guy up and then sit on him.

Regarding MMA taking fans from boxing - of course it has happened and will continue to happen. Boxing has been around for 100 years - it peaked 30 or 40 years ago. When Tyson was done, it started going down hill. Guy was amazing to watch.

The UFC didn't put MMA on the map until the 90s, and the 1st sanctioned fight was only 12 years ago.

MMA is a newborn sport - not even a toddler yet. Email is older than MMA.

I'm not sure where MMA goes - frankly, I don't care - I find it hugely entertaining, but I'm not an ardent follower of any sport other than UConn BBall.

But I can offer a good guess where boxing is going, and that's to a shrinking market.

ESPN did a hit piece on MMA and try to say that the fighters weren't well paid. MMA guy says to ESPN guy, the fights you just aired on ESPN on Sunday? You paid some of the fighters 250 bucks. ESPN interviewer - no comment.

 

[Frank Ivy]

Cmon.... You think your average joe tough guy could beat mayweather in a street fight? he would see every punch coming a mile away.

What punch? The fight would break out, he'd immediately sprint away from anybody throwing a punch, and then, when somebody got close to him, he'd lean his head waaaaaaay back, which is apparently HOF technique in boxing circles, and then his attacker would tackle him and kick the out of him. And given that he's a relatively small dude who has never, at least in a ring, taken a real punch and who never has, at least in a ring, ever fought without small pillows on his hands, I'd say you'd be assuming a lot to think he'd be any good outside out of boxing ring.

 

[Frank Ivy]

All right - that's enough trolling. I know one thing - Mayweather would kill me with one punch and I'd probably have a hard time touching him (as in, like, tag), forget about actually hitting him.

 

[21Huskies]

MMA is fighting, with a minimum of rules to prevent severe injury. It's an organized bar fight, essentially, where the guy who is the better fighter generally wins.

if you think this, you clearly have no idea what you're watching in MMA.

 

[Reno]

From what I can tell, MMA's fan base is mostly trash and wanna-be tough guys who pretend to work the heavy bag at the gym.