New Mexico State & Liberty Model - what can we learn?

[DMTCYNAW]

two programs i find supremely interesting - formerly on the edges of the FBS relevance world, formerly INDEPENDENT also, and now both making their strides (huge ones, at that) in the right direction for their programs.

Liberty in particular is worthy of a harvard business school case study (unreal amounts of money spent on football, but they also won games, which as we know $ doesn't automaticaly = wins, so clearly they're doing something ELSE right besides spending).

I suspect Liberty, regardless of their upcoming fiesta bowl outcome, will be in the P4/5 in the next 3-4 years. They're spending too much money and winning too many games (including against P4/5 teams) to be ignored. It's obvious, to me at least, that they're laser focused as an athletic dept/trustee board, to get an invite (Big 12, most likely IMO).

NMSU will probably remain G5 for the future, but probably the more comparable program to us, considering recent losing history. Jerry Kill is now gone, so we'll see how/if it sustains. But regardless, they're showing us that it is 100% possible to win in FBS as an "outsider" program that comes from where UConn is currently (indep/low talent).

What can we learn from these 2 programs?
I'm not asking for a UConn fiesta bowl, even though sheeeeeeeesh that would be heaven.

But it's not insane to ask for consistent 7-5 & 8-4 seasons, maybe even a 10-2 if we're lucky from time to time.

 

[How Sway?!]

two programs i find supremely interesting - formerly on the edges of the FBS relevance world, and both making their strides (huge ones, at that) in the right direction for their programs.
Liberty in particular is worthy of a harvard business school case study (unreal amounts of money spent on football, but they also won games, which as we know $ doesn't automaticaly = wins, so clearly something they're doing something ELSE right besides spending).

I suspect Liberty, regardless of their upcoming fiesta bowl outcome, will be in the P4/5 in a couple of years. They're spending too much money and winning too many games (including against P4/5 teams) to be ignored.
NMSU will probably remain G5 for the future, but probably the more comparable program to us, considering recent losing history. Jerry Kill is now gone, so we'll see how it sustains, if at all. But regardless, they prove that it is 100% possible to win in FBS as an "outsider" program.

What can we learn form these 2 programs?
I'm not asking for a UConn fiesta bowl, even though sheeeeeeeesh that would be heaven.

But it's not insane to ask for consistent 7-5 & 8-4 seasons, maybe even a 10-2 if we're lucky from time to time.

There's no way liberty ends up in a P4 conference. Heck, the only reason they are in a conference right now is because C-USA would be dead without them.

Liberty has a lot of money behind it, from questionable sources, which UConn does not have, so there's very little we can copy from them unless the AD and university suddenly decide that the deficit does not matter.

As for getting those numbers of wins, simple, play either the second easiest FBS schedule (Liberty) or the 6th (NMSU)

 

[DMTCYNAW]

There's no way liberty ends up in a P4 conference. Heck, the only reason they are in a conference right now is because C-USA would be dead without them.

Liberty has a lot of money behind it, from questionable sources, which UConn does not have, so there's very little we can copy from them unless the AD and university suddenly decide that the deficit does not matter.

As for getting those numbers of wins, simple, play either the second easiest FBS schedule (Liberty) or the 6th (NMSU)

Liberty has a weak SOS this year, yes.
if you open up the lens and look at the last 5 years, they have some impressive wins, including wins AT virginia tech, Arkansas, home vs. BYU, and also a recent impressive showing vs. Ole Miss even though they lost.

If they manage to keep up vs Oregon, say make the game at least interesting into the 4th quarter, it's a win in their book, IMO. Enough for a feather in their cap toward the P5 goal.

idk, i think they have a path at this rate, as long as they start re-scheduling some P5's and beat them. Again, I agree that this year's schedule doesn't raise eyebrows. But 13-0 is still impressive, as the CFP committee clearly agrees.

 

[How Sway?!]

Liberty has a weak SOS this year, yes.
if you open up the lens and look at the last 5 years, they have some impressive wins, including wins AT virginia tech, Arkansas, home vs. BYU, and also a recent impressive showing vs. Ole Miss even though they lost.

If they manage to keep up vs Oregon, say make the game at least interesting into the 4th quarter, it's a win in their book, IMO. Enough for a feather in their cap toward the P5 goal.

idk, i think they have a path at this rate, as long as they start re-scheduling some P5's and beat them. Again, I agree that this year's schedule doesn't raise eyebrows. But 13-0 is still impressive, as the CFP committee clearly agrees.

I think history has shown that beating P4 schools had little bearing in getting invited to a P4 conference.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I'm curious as to how many realize that we beat Liberty, on the field, in football about 60 weeks ago.

 

[Kolumbo]

 

[DMTCYNAW]

I'm curious as to how many realize that we beat Liberty, on the field, in football about 60 weeks ago.

The win is noted. KC's touchdown still rings in my head. one of the few plays where i was impressed with ZT (along with the long ball to... KC - vs. Fresno state)

In retrospect, that game was the beginning of the end of Hugh Freeze's tenure. Not discrediting our victory, but I got the sense he was half checked-out, even by that game. Their season went down the drain after our game, to the point where they got demolished by NMSU, who was 1000% an inferior team. Their minds were clearly off after his disengagement and subsequent defection to Auburn.

 

[DMTCYNAW]

View attachment 94508

impressive, to say the least. Would have been interesting to see a renovation/expansion like this happen at memorial stadium. sigh...

 

[gtcam]

Have we learned that UConn needs a new OC and a DC?

 

[DMTCYNAW]

I think history has shown that beating P4 schools had little bearing in getting invited to a P4 conference.

ok, so what's the formula?

it sounds like nothing Liberty is doing, is putting them in a position to make the jump to the big table, according to your responses

• multiple P5 wins vs. ACC/SEC opponents
• massive stadium expansion & renovation, rivaling P5 southern schools, which are the CFB "gameday atmosphere" benchmark. See Kolumbo's picture above.
• massive facilities/amenities upgrade (and i mean MASSIVE, SEC/NFL level)
• the RIGHT coaching hires for the transition from FCS to FBS (freeze + chadwell - home run BOTH times)
• 13-0 season 2023 (SOS aside, this is still hard to do and deserves some respect)
• $$$$$
• Idk their NIL collective situation, but i'm almost positive they're already ahead of most G5's on this, given their other investments. There's clearly an open checkbook somewhere.

not judging, just asking - are you simply not a Liberty fan? because if you take the "liberty" brand off and put "Tulane/ECU/Memphis" on these accomplishments, wondering if that would make a difference.

If none of the bullets above are good enough, then what the heck is even the point of trying/yearning for p5 invite, if you're UConn? I mean come on. this is why i'm trying to determine if you just hate liberty, or objectively there's another standard i'm not seeing.

 

[DMTCYNAW]

Have we learned that UConn needs a new OC and a DC?

agreed. at minimum on the DC side. I'm not a Charlton fan but i really want to give HCJM the benefit of the doubt. One more year is my runway on this OC.

 

[Skies2018]

It’s really not that hard.
1. Be in a conference
2. Don’t hire morons. And when you do, fire them as soon as possible. Cough cough Charlton
3. Don’t schedule multiple unwinnable games a season
4. Invest money in coaching and NIL

Oh and maybe don’t have a stadium 25 miles off campus that students never go to. But I’ll concede that as of now that one is actually a bit hard to remedy.

 

[Waquoit]

If we need to copy Liberty, we should just shut the entire thing down.

 

[Windham4th]

Liberty has a weak SOS this year, yes.
if you open up the lens and look at the last 5 years, they have some impressive wins, including wins AT virginia tech, Arkansas, home vs. BYU, and also a recent impressive showing vs. Ole Miss even though they lost.

If they manage to keep up vs Oregon, say make the game at least interesting into the 4th quarter, it's a win in their book, IMO. Enough for a feather in their cap toward the P5 goal.

idk, i think they have a path at this rate, as long as they start re-scheduling some P5's and beat them. Again, I agree that this year's schedule doesn't raise eyebrows. But 13-0 is still impressive, as the CFP committee clearly agrees.

They also lost to the Storrs Agricultural School last year too. They are shady as hell. Known to me as Poolboy Univ.

 

[ScottVib]

Liberty is not on a path towards making the P4.. they have so little respect that it took every other G5 conference champion losing multiple games before they finally were the highest ranked. They have poured a lot of money into the program, paying a premium for Hugh Freeze after recruiting and academic scandals forced his resignation from Ole Miss (for what it's worth, Liberty hired the Baylor AD who was in place during their own athletics scandal to run their department). From there they opened up their wallets to pry Jamey Chadwell away from Coastal Carolina and played among the weakest schedules in college football.

They were so desperate to move up to FBS that after no G5 would have them they had to sue the NCAA which ultimately saw them allowed to move up as an independent. Even after all that and the upsets you noted (and even getting ranked) they were only considered for C-USA after it was a case of take Liberty or cease to exist. P4 college Presidents want nothing to do with them, their conference mates had to hold their nose to let them in and they have so little respect that again they were only 1 spot ahead of the 2 loss AAC champion, despite being undefeated.

 

[DMTCYNAW]

Liberty is not on a path towards making the P4.. they have so little respect that it took every other G5 conference champion losing multiple games before they finally were the highest ranked. They have poured a lot of money into the program, paying a premium for Hugh Freeze after recruiting and academic scandals forced his resignation from Ole Miss (for what it's worth, Liberty hired the Baylor AD who was in place during their own athletics scandal to run their department). From there they opened up their wallets to pry Jamey Chadwell away from Coastal Carolina and played among the weakest schedules in college football.

They were so desperate to move up to FBS that after no G5 would have them they had to sue the NCAA which ultimately saw them allowed to move up as an independent. Even after all that and the upsets you noted (and even getting ranked) they were only considered for C-USA after it was a case of take Liberty or cease to exist. P4 college Presidents want nothing to do with them, their conference mates had to hold their nose to let them in and they have so little respect that again they were only 1 spot ahead of the 2 loss AAC champion, despite being undefeated.

i hear your points. IMO the "lack of respect" this year is due to the C-USA affiliation, more than the school itself. clearly they're on a mission and will stop at nothing to get to big time CFB. Ultimately, they got the CFP committee to put them in NY6, when the committee could have insulted them again by putting 2-loss SMU in the game against Oregon. So clearly, there's SOME level of respect (even if low) for what they're doing/they've done in Lynchburg. Any result in the Fiesta bowl EXCEPT a blowout loss, will be a Public-Relations-win for Liberty and their football/athletics mission.

Personal feeling on Liberty aside, what is the bar then, if not what this team has done? As I said above, if all that is still not enough, then truly there is no path at ALL to P5 and we huskies need to seriously think of a new future (not saying drop down FCS, but i dont' think anyone has the appetite in CT to spend the money Liberty is, and still not get an invite).

 

[Patman]

I don't know about new mexico state but aside from the sexual dalliances of key leadership I always got the feeling that the "boat is pulling in the same direction".

So many different things have to go into a good program but usually it starts with administration doing solid work to get the little things right. Yeah we can easily say "good coach" but it's like anything else. You can set up good coaches and good people to fail if you don't have others doing what is needed.

We know mora isn't bad at his job. Maybe he made a bad choice for OC thinking he needed a new England guy. But is the rest of the boat rowing?

It as much perception as anything. I think uconn has far better resources than either program but uconn has often not run a tight ship. Get the little things right the rest pays off

 

[How Sway?!]

ok, so what's the formula?

it sounds like nothing Liberty is doing, is putting them in a position to make the jump to the big table, according to your responses

• multiple P5 wins vs. ACC/SEC opponents
• massive stadium expansion & renovation, rivaling P5 southern schools, which are the CFB "gameday atmosphere" benchmark. See Kolumbo's picture above.
• massive facilities/amenities upgrade (and i mean MASSIVE, SEC/NFL level)
• the RIGHT coaching hires for the transition from FCS to FBS (freeze + chadwell - home run BOTH times)
• 13-0 season 2023 (SOS aside, this is still hard to do and deserves some respect)
• $$$$$
• Idk their NIL collective situation, but i'm almost positive they're already ahead of most G5's on this, given their other investments. There's clearly an open checkbook somewhere.

not judging, just asking - are you simply not a Liberty fan? because if you take the "liberty" brand off and put "Tulane/ECU/Memphis" on these accomplishments, wondering if that would make a difference.

If none of the bullets above are good enough, then what the heck is even the point of trying/yearning for p5 invite, if you're UConn? I mean come on. this is why i'm trying to determine if you just hate liberty, or objectively there's another standard i'm not seeing.

I don't think you realize how toxic Liberty's brand is. Again, before C-USA was out on life support by the Sun Belt, Liberty had offered to PAY to join the conference and even then they said no.

Additionally they bring nothing of value to a P4 league, they don't have a big new market and have a toxic brand.

And to answer your question, if you switched liberty with any of the schools mentioned my answer wouldn't change because when there was the chance to join the B12, they got passed by.

 

[Kolumbo]

Whatever

Liberty is not on a path towards making the P4.. they have so little respect that it took every other G5 conference champion losing multiple games before they finally were the highest ranked. They have poured a lot of money into the program, paying a premium for Hugh Freeze after recruiting and academic scandals forced his resignation from Ole Miss (for what it's worth, Liberty hired the Baylor AD who was in place during their own athletics scandal to run their department). From there they opened up their wallets to pry Jamey Chadwell away from Coastal Carolina and played among the weakest schedules in college football.

They were so desperate to move up to FBS that after no G5 would have them they had to sue the NCAA which ultimately saw them allowed to move up as an independent. Even after all that and the upsets you noted (and even getting ranked) they were only considered for C-USA after it was a case of take Liberty or cease to exist. P4 college Presidents want nothing to do with them, their conference mates had to hold their nose to let them in and they have so little respect that again they were only 1 spot ahead of the 2 loss AAC champion, despite being undefeated.

Whatever the explanations or excuses, pluses or minuses, Liberty is on the rise. 5 years Indy and 1 year in CUSA. Football is ranked 23 and cracked the top 25 three of the past 4 years. 3-1 in bowl games. That's impressive. Basketball is actually doing well too. And Liberty Field Hockey just lost to ODU in the conference championship. The Big East Conference Championship. Lots of schools out there with awful reputations but no one cares.

 

[ScottVib]

Personal feeling on Liberty aside, what is the bar then, if not what this team has done? As I said above, if all that is still not enough, then truly there is no path at ALL to P5 and we huskies need to seriously think of a new future (not saying drop down FCS, but i dont' think anyone has the appetite in CT to spend the money Liberty is, and still not get an invite).

Liberty adds no new market to the P4, nor does it solidify an existing one. They are not a brand that networks are going to insist be added over the objections of the collegiate Presidents in whatever conference they are in. UConn has a brand in basketball, although that isn't worth a ton at the current point; but also has that basketball fan base that has demonstrated that it will travel, that can be inferred to indicate that we'd buy subscriptions for the streaming service associated with a given league.

UConn's limited path includes the separation of basketball and football rights deals and Yormark being correct that basketball is currently undervalued and is the path to a marginal increase in revenue for a school... for that to matter though the football team must be respectable.

 

[UConnJim]

Pretty simple. Both schools decided to invest in hiring proven successful coaches. Liberty hired a successful former SEC coach, Hugh Freeze, who was unhireable by most schools, and replaced him with a successful coach from Coastal Carolina. NM State hired a very good coach, Jerry Kill, although his health issues are what prevented him from other head coaching jobs and caused him to retire after this season.

Bottom line, if you want a successful football program, you have to hire and pay your coaches. You don't say this is what I'll pay for coaches and I want great results. You say I want great results, so how much do I have to pay the coaches?

 

[How Sway?!]

Pretty simple. Both schools decided to invest in hiring proven successful coaches. Liberty hired a successful former SEC coach, Hugh Freeze, who was unhireable by most schools, and replaced him with a successful coach from Coastal Carolina. NM State hired a very good coach, Jerry Kill, although his health issues are what prevented him from other head coaching jobs and caused him to retire after this season.

Bottom line, if you want a successful football program, you have to hire and pay your coaches. You don't say this is what I'll pay for coaches and I want great results. You say I want great results, so how much do I have to pay the coaches?

Pretty sure we outspend New Mexico State by a significant amount. It's all relative to your competition. If we played a C-USA schedule we would be closer to their results but considering we are trying to compete against P4 schools and scheduling like it, the results are what they are.

 

[How Sway?!]

Whatever

Whatever the explanations or excuses, pluses or minuses, Liberty is on the rise. 5 years Indy and 1 year in CUSA. Football is ranked 23 and cracked the top 25 three of the past 4 years. 3-1 in bowl games. That's impressive. Basketball is actually doing well too. And Liberty Field Hockey just lost to ODU in the conference championship. The Big East Conference Championship. Lots of schools out there with awful reputations but no one cares.

No one is arguing that they are not on the rise, that's a fact. It's the assumption that they are P4 bound that is getting push back

 

[UConnKev]

A lot of NMSU talk on here...as an alum I approve.

Jerry Kill when he was hired, made a list of improvements that needed to be done to be considered a legit FBS program. That included a new locker room, field turf for practice field, new cooling system for the locker room/coaches offices, new scoreboard, and wanted a couple of parking lots paved. Now, almost all of these things UConn already has and are probably still better than NMSU put out there The boosters stepped up in a big way to make most of this happen, the parking lot hasn't been paved yet but still is in the works.

Kill brought with him a bunch of guys who were assistants or grad assistants from TCU. Also brought in a former player, David Cobb to help out. In terms of salary, I have no doubt Mora and all of his assistants are paid way more than NMSU coaches (obviously cost of living is significant cheaper in Las Cruces.)

What I have seen in the two years we had Kill was that he had an unbelievable eye for talent, he also knew what type of player was needed for his program. He brought in some P5 guys like Andre Seldon (Michigan), Eli Stowers Texas A+M (QB to WR), Monte Watkins (TCU), He also found some FCS guys who fit the mold of what he was looking for.

He really hit the junior colleges hard, focusing on the power houses like Independence and Iowa Western. The programs in the midwest/south that churn out a good amount of FBS level players. (I feel like these guys may not get into UConn for academic reasons, NMSU is much easier to get into and they also utilize Dona Ana community college which is apart of the campus to help get guys qualified.)

I cannot speak to NIL, I know NMSU has the A Mountain Collective and that is comprised of about 15-20 local businesses and donors. They were able to get enough money to secure Trent Hudson (who I think was going to come to UConn.)

It is hard to recruit to Las Cruces, it is a beautiful college town and the weather are big selling points but the closet major city is El Paso and well, that's not going to get a lot of people to commit.

This year's NMSU team was the best I've ever seen. It is evident that Kill had a great eye for talent and for coaches. The offensive cordnitaor and defensive back coach are both off to Vanderbuit. The guys who have enterered the portal are getting some big offers, our second string QB went to Vandy, Andre Seldon is getting offers to Wisconsin and Texas A+M, Keyshaun Elliot is off to ASU. We are after Myles Rowser (would be huge but doubt he is going to come here), Josiah Charles (no opininon on himsas he didn't see the field much) and Reggie Akles (athlete but was probably 3rd or 4th best CB on the team) but UConn needs athlete's like him.

Not too sure what is going to happen now, there are 30 players in the portal from NMSU, they hired Tony Sanchez (NMSU alum and former UNLV head coach). Let's hope he learned a lot under Kill otherwise we will be lucky to win 4 or 5 games a year.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

We should join CUSA as football only. Love to play UD. UMass to end every year. Stick with an in-state FCS and/or perhaps URI.