It's Pitt and Syracuse!!!!

[nelsonmuntz]

People act like the entire Big East got up and walked out the door, leaving UConn all to its lonesome. The Big East lost Pitt and Syracuse. Let that sink in for a minute. When the league got raided in 2003, it lost it's two best program in Miami and VTech, and Miami had been carrying the league for years. Of the 5 left, 1, Temple, had already been kicked out and Rutgers was tragically terrible. Pitt, WVU and Syracuse were just OK. Of the additions, only Louisville had accomplished anything in football, with their crowning achievement a victory over an FSU team that would finish a game above .500 that year. Two of the 8 Big East teams have been playing D1A ball for less than 3 years.

Since then, the Big East has had a tremendous run, coming within one play of playing for the National Championship on 3 different occasions (Louisville 2006, WVU 2007, Cincinnati 2009). Even with the loss of Pitt and Syracuse, the league remains the best basketball league in the country, with key programs St. Johns and Depaul showing significant improvement in the last year.

In football, the league has TCU, which finished #2 last year, WVU and USF, both in the Top 20, and the potential to add borderline Top 25 program Houston. Pitt has been solid, going 24-18 in Big East play with a few solid non-conference wins. Syracuse has gone 8-34 over that stretch. As we saw from 2005 on with programs like Louisville, Cincinnati, UConn and USF, joining a BCS conference has a big impact on recruiting and coaching stability relative to mid-majors. Now imagine Houston in a BCS conference.

The TV contract will take a hit, but will still be a huge increase over what we have given that the Syracuse and Pitt TV markets aren't exactly driving the bus anyway. People need to relax. We got into this situation because Syracuse and Pitt panicked and screwed everyone else over. More panicking will not improve the situation. The Big East will be just fine as long as everyone hangs tight, and between TCU and WVU, I would not be surprised if the league wins a National Championship in the next 5 years.

 

[Brian2001]

Your not looking at the big picture. The big (9) 12 is in the process of stablizing once it does, it will go back to 12. Targets will be Ville and possible WV. That will be the next nail in the coffin.

 

[jpm25]

just like it's players more than plays, it's programs more than teams

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Your not looking at the big picture. The big (9) 12 is in the process of stablizing once it does, it will go back to 12. Targets will be Ville and possible WV. That will be the next nail in the coffin.

I don't know that the Big 12 will add them and I don't know that they will go. Neither do you. If your argument is in favor of more panicking, go right ahead, don't let me stop you.

 

[Hoophound]

So, are you sure TCU and WVU will be here? I just have a sneaking suspicion that the B12 might grab them and lock themselves into Superconference territory. In that scenario they probably bring Cincy and Louisville with them.

That will leave Rutgers and UCONN in the MAC.

 

[The Funster]

It is inevitable that the football and non football institutions have to split from each other. To try to keep them together is futile.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

just like it's players more than plays, it's programs more than teams

Pitt's "program" is the function of a great coach in Dixon and a great recruiter in Wannstedt. Graham has not exactly been lighting it up on the recruiting trail, and the loss to Iowa was right out of the Walt Harris Book of Chokes.

Syracuse is on the wrong side of history in every way measurable. It has an old basketball coach that has run that program since Genesis, that is at the end of his run. It is an expensive private school in the middle of a dying industrial region. The football program has not been competitive for years, and is just showing signs of life.

You are right. It is the programs.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

it's more that It's Navy and Air Force!!!!

 

[SubbaBub]

"People act like the entire Big East got up and walked out the door,"

I think that's exactly the point and JC agrees. Name the original FB playing members still hanging around other than Uconn. This might help.


1.
2.

If you want to discuss FB schools left from the league's early years you can't because there are none.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

 

[nelsonmuntz]

So, are you sure TCU and WVU will be here? I just have a sneaking suspicion that the B12 might grab them and lock themselves into Superconference territory. In that scenario they probably bring Cincy and Louisville with them.

That will leave Rutgers and UCONN in the MAC.

What should we do with that information? Join the MAC first? That will show them.

 

[Brian2001]

nelsonmuntz, I think you should start reading everything that is out there. The Big 12 will target the Ville because it was already doing it along with Pitt and BYU before everything happened last Friday. Yes, the Ville will go because that conference will be stablized and have big name programs and the money will be big, bigger than what will be given to the current BE. If the Ville goes, its a really go assumption that TCU will go back to MWC because of stability and high potential of MWC getting BCS bid especially with what the BE will have remaining for a BCS qualification.

If the Ville goes or WV goes, I will bet the ACC plays hardball and takes UConn immediately as number 15 to force ND hands to choose.

I wish this all never happened with Pitt and Cuse, but it is a sinking ship. We will be in another BCS conferece when it is all said and done.

 

[Excalibur]

People act like the entire Big East got up and walked out the door, leaving UConn all to its lonesome. The Big East lost Pitt and Syracuse. Let that sink in for a minute. When the league got raided in 2003, it lost it's two best program in Miami and VTech, and Miami had been carrying the league for years. Of the 5 left, 1, Temple, had already been kicked out and Rutgers was tragically terrible. Pitt, WVU and Syracuse were just OK. Of the additions, only Louisville had accomplished anything in football, with their crowning achievement a victory over an FSU team that would finish a game above .500 that year. Two of the 8 Big East teams have been playing D1A ball for less than 3 years.

Since then, the Big East has had a tremendous run, coming within one play of playing for the National Championship on 3 different occasions (Louisville 2006, WVU 2007, Cincinnati 2009). Even with the loss of Pitt and Syracuse, the league remains the best basketball league in the country, with key programs St. Johns and Depaul showing significant improvement in the last year.

In football, the league has TCU, which finished #2 last year, WVU and USF, both in the Top 20, and the potential to add borderline Top 25 program Houston. Pitt has been solid, going 24-18 in Big East play with a few solid non-conference wins. Syracuse has gone 8-34 over that stretch. As we saw from 2005 on with programs like Louisville, Cincinnati, UConn and USF, joining a BCS conference has a big impact on recruiting and coaching stability relative to mid-majors. Now imagine Houston in a BCS conference.

The TV contract will take a hit, but will still be a huge increase over what we have given that the Syracuse and Pitt TV markets aren't exactly driving the bus anyway. People need to relax. We got into this situation because Syracuse and Pitt panicked and screwed everyone else over. More panicking will not improve the situation. The Big East will be just fine as long as everyone hangs tight, and between TCU and WVU, I would not be surprised if the league wins a National Championship in the next 5 years.

This is not a stop, it's a pause. And when things start up again, there's a significant chance it does not go well for us.

 

[IMind]

The Big 12 is deader than the Big East. OK and TX aren't staying just to help out Baylor and Iowa State. A&M and Missouri are already gone. So what is supposed to lure WVU and Ville? The more I think about it... it far more likely that Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas and Kansas State are just absorbed into whatever is left in the Big East.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

nelsonmuntz, I think you should start reading everything that is out there. The Big 12 will target the Ville because it was already doing it along with Pitt and BYU before everything happened last Friday. Yes, the Ville will go because that conference will be stablized and have big name programs and the money will be big, bigger than what will be given to the current BE. If the Ville goes, its a really go assumption that TCU will go back to MWC because of stability and high potential of MWC getting BCS bid especially with what the BE will have remaining for a BCS qualification.

If the Ville goes or WV goes, I will bet the ACC plays hardball and takes UConn immediately as number 15 to force ND hands to choose.

I wish this all never happened with Pitt and Cuse, but it is a sinking ship. We will be in another BCS conferece when it is all said and done.

Until this morning, I had done little else than read everything that is "out there". When you boil down all of it, you have the following: The SEC is not adding a Big East team. The Big 10 is not adding a Big East team. The Big 12 is a mess and no program will join that league unless it has no other options or, like BYU, it can slip in and out painlessly. The MWC is never getting a BCS bid. Unless the wheels completely fall off the Big East, TCU is sticking around. Finally, the ACC is not adding any more teams because I think most of the membership was hesitant to add the two they added.

The Big East is our league, and unlikely to change dramatically between now and the next TV deal. Once that TV deal comes in, the Big East will be stable.

 

[Rumrunner]

Yes, once we lost bc, miami, pitt, syracuse, va tech we're so much better off. So long as we've got our two northeastern teams left in our conference, we're stronger than ever!

/s/ John Marinatto

 

[BHusky]

There is no shot in hell of this conference remaining as is with just the departure of Pitt and Cuse. Perception is reality and the perception is that we are weaker without Pitt and Cuse. The Pac 12 staying as is just puts a pause on conference expansion similiar to 6 months ago when the B10 said they are staying put for a while. SEC and ACC still have major decisions to make and it will be no surpirse if they not take the lead on additional expansion as the Pac 12 backs off...for now.

 

[EricLA]

If the Ville goes or WV goes, I will bet the ACC plays hardball and takes UConn immediately as number 15 to force ND hands to choose.

I wish this all never happened with Pitt and Cuse, but it is a sinking ship. We will be in another BCS conferece when it is all said and done.

that is what everyone is hoping for, most at least. i don't even really have a preference. just stick us in a stable BCS conference.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

There is no shot in hell of this conference remaining as is with just the departure of Pitt and Cuse. Perception is reality and the perception is that we are weaker without Pitt and Cuse. The Pac 12 staying as is just puts a pause on conference expansion similiar to 6 months ago when the B10 said they are staying put for a while. SEC and ACC still have major decisions to make and it will be no surpirse if they not take the lead on additional expansion as the Pac 12 backs off...for now.

Reality is reality. Nothing else. Win on the field and the court, and put fans in the seats, and the Big East will be fine.

 

[Brian2001]

I respectfully disagree. Everything is still moving. The musical chairs are still going on. The Big 12 will hold it together and Mizzou then will stay, so then they look to expand. Besides BYU who else will they be looking at? You tell me?

SEC still needs a number 14. If the Big 12 becomes stable as it seems, then no Mizzou. Then where is number 14 coming from Ville, WV, or one ACC team? If one ACC team, then boom UConn is next in line as replacement, but if its Ville or WV what then?

Understand one point: There are movements that will be taking place between Big 12 and SEC to stablize and restructure their conferences, which will directly affect BE.

 

[jpm25]

Pitt's "program" is the function of a great coach in Dixon and a great recruiter in Wannstedt. Graham has not exactly been lighting it up on the recruiting trail, and the loss to Iowa was right out of the Walt Harris Book of Chokes.

Syracuse is on the wrong side of history in every way measurable. It has an old basketball coach that has run that program since Genesis, that is at the end of his run. It is an expensive private school in the middle of a dying industrial region. The football program has not been competitive for years, and is just showing signs of life.

You are right. It is the programs.

Swofford obviously disagrees with you.

You are really going to criticize Graham's recruiting? and losing to Iowa? Really? And Jamie Dixon built Pitt basketball? I seem to remember Ben Howland doing ok, and Pitt winning multiple BE championships before his tenure.

And knocking Syracuse because of the age of their coach? You don't think that the HC job at Syracuse is one of the top 10-20 coaching jobs in the country? Jim B won a NC not too long ago.

It's everyone's knee jerk reaction to try to sugar coat this, but those are two historically significant programs across many sports and two fine academic institutions.

 

[Hoophound]

Reality is reality. Nothing else. Win on the field and the court, and put fans in the seats, and the Big East will be fine.

Where I agree with you is in staying positive on the Big East. If we can put together something strong pretty quick, the league's chances of survival are better. If we are going to be in the Big East then we need to make it the best possible situation. I still believe, that UCONN and Rutgers need to be on the Big 12 to take them too if they expand so the B12 gets an east and west division and some east coast exposure. It can't hurt and if the B12 sees value there, it could force the hand of the ACC or B10.

 

[ctchamps]

I like the positive view even though from a bb perspective I hate losing Cuse and Pitt who along with Ville and UConn have been the recent power houses of the BE.

Until the next shoe drops I'll support Waylon. I don't think I'll be supporting you long though nelson.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Swofford obviously disagrees with you.

You are really going to criticize Graham's recruiting? and losing to Iowa? Really? And Jamie Dixon built Pitt basketball? I seem to remember Ben Howland doing ok, and Pitt winning multiple BE championships before his tenure.

And knocking Syracuse because of the age of their coach? You don't think that the HC job at Syracuse is one of the top 10-20 coaching jobs in the country? Jim B won a NC not too long ago.

It's everyone's knee jerk reaction to try to sugar coat this, but those are two historically significant programs across many sports and two fine academic institutions.

Swofford went to Pitt and Syracuse because they were weak and panicking. If I am wrong, how come he gave them a few days to accept the offer?

Everyone's knee jerk reaction is to do exactly what you are doing, which is to cry about teams that won't be in our conference that don't really matter to the success of UConn's athletic program.

 

[CTMike]

The Big East is our league, and unlikely to change dramatically between now and the next TV deal. Once that TV deal comes in, the Big East will be stable.

The Big East will not be stable until every better offer is off the table.

 

[NH Husky]

Pitt and Syracuse definitely panicked in jumping. Can't say I blame them with the perceived lack of proactivity on the part of the Big East (Air Force? Really?!?!?).
Unfortunately with this the BE lost any leverage they had. Whatever gets cobbled together as a conference the will be prime pickings for any other conference adds including the somewhat revialized Big 12.

I started a different thread on us aggressively pursueing Big 10 memebership and that stands. SEC, PAC12 and Big Ten are all secure. Big 12/Big East and ACC will be subject to poaching for the next 5 years until all dust settles with 4 assumed 16 team super-conferences. With Pitt and Cuse still on board I think the chances of the Big East and Big 12 merging into one conference would have been more appealing than the ACC.

I want Big Ten and I think UConn has earned it.