OT: Victor Wembanyama

[husky429]

Wilt, Russell, and Oscar also played when there were far fewer teams, so there were few scrubs on benches let alone getting minutes. The talent level was super high.

No it wasn't, because so few people even played basketball. The talent level was garbage. The athleticism and skill nowadays is 1000% better. They were playing against the equivalent of HS JV teams practically.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

The thing is Jordan wasn't chasing anyone. He was legitimately the most famous person in the world, it got to be a bit too much him culminating with the murder of his dad. He retired twice when he was by far the best player in the league leaving several more NBA titles on the board. I think there's a pretty good chance those two three peats would've been a 10 peat without the retirements.

I think you're pretty young so probably didn't get to watch him...people often refer to him having the greatest competitiveness ever but it's wild how he was doing stuff athletically that nobody else has done since. Nobody has ever come close to catching the amount of bodies he caught, he routinely dunked on entire front lines. You hardly ever see it anymore. The reaction videos are a bit much on YouTube but I still like seeing young people react to Jordan's highlight tape.

Like I said I don’t have a dog in the fight. It can go either or and you can’t really go wrong.

Jordan did lose to the Magic his first year back though. Jordan also had amazing support for his championship runs Lebron didn’t have in some of the Finals he was in. Jordan’s team legit went to game 7 of the Eastern Semis without him. That’s how good of a squad he was on.

It doesn’t take away from the fact that he was for sure the best player in the league and some of the stuff he did was insane (leading the NBA in points and being DPOY). But we never saw him carry straight up bad teams like we’ve seen from Lebron either.

 

[navery12]

What’s stupid is that you’re hurling an insult without refuting the article’s points. No thanks I won’t.

I'm getting around to that. I have to dig up VHS tape of the plumbers playing in the NBA from the 1960s first before I can make an informed opinion

 

[CardiacAndre7]

What’s stupid is that you’re hurling an insult without refuting the article’s points. No thanks I won’t.

Prime versions of Steph, Harden, Giannis, Jokic and Embiid, to name a few, would need to be included in this for it to have any merit.

 

[aceboon]

Another Mock just came out. Castle 4th. Quite a few internationals. I have to wonder if NBA basketball has shifted towards the international version of the game, like the NHL did 20 years ago. Not all the way, but enough to give some of those players an advantage.

2024 NBA Mock Draft: Full Predictions as College Basketball Tips Off

NBA scouts have already started making their rounds to practices, exhibitions and pro games overseas. Even before college basketball tips off, first…

bleacherreport.com

NBA is nothing like the international game

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Another Mock just came out. Castle 4th. Quite a few internationals. I have to wonder if NBA basketball has shifted towards the international version of the game, like the NHL did 20 years ago. Not all the way, but enough to give some of those players an advantage.

2024 NBA Mock Draft: Full Predictions as College Basketball Tips Off

NBA scouts have already started making their rounds to practices, exhibitions and pro games overseas. Even before college basketball tips off, first…

bleacherreport.com

It’s so stupid that Castle is a top 10 talent, top 10 mock draft pick, but left off of stuff like this by the national media.

 

[superjohn]

Like I said I don’t have a dog in the fight. It can go either or and you can’t really go wrong.

Jordan did lose to the Magic his first year back though. Jordan also had amazing support for his championship runs Lebron didn’t have in some of the Finals he was in. Jordan’s team legit went to game 7 of the Eastern Semis without him. That’s how good of a squad he was on.

It doesn’t take away from the fact that he was for sure the best player in the league and some of the stuff he did was insane (leading the NBA in points and being DPOY). But we never saw him carry straight up bad teams like we’ve seen from Lebron either.

Jordan played 17 games after having not played basketball for 2 years and playing a different sport professionally. Bulls would've destroyed the Magic had he played the last 2 seasons or even just that one season. Lebron has played with way more Hall of Famers than Jordan did.

 

[Scoe]

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You can always settle these debates by simulating.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Jordan played 17 games after having not played basketball for 2 years and playing a different sport professionally. Bulls would've destroyed the Magic had he played the last 2 seasons or even just that one season. Lebron has played with way more Hall of Famers than Jordan did.

Played against way more, too.

 

[superjohn]

Played against way more, too.

We don't have any numbers on that.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

We don't have any numbers on that.

Yeah, I suppose we don’t know that Steph and KD will make it.

 

[superjohn]

Yeah, I suppose we don’t know that Steph and KD will make it.

We absolutely do know they'll make it, as will AD, Westbrook and the other Hall of Famers Lebron played with who are currently still playing.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Played against way more, too.

Nah. I think everyone forgets that Jordan's early teams were blocked by those amazing Celtics teams and then those really good Detroit squads. He put up 47 in a playoff loss in 1986.

It's all subjective. For me, MJ is still the guy, but I'd put LeBron on an all top 5 squad.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

We absolutely do know they'll make it, as will AD, Westbrook and the other Hall of Famers Lebron played with who are currently still playing.

Agreed, that’s not what I was responding to though. You said we don’t have numbers on Hall of Famers he’s played, we absolutely do as of right now.

 

[superjohn]

Agreed, that’s not what I was responding to though. You said we don’t have numbers on Hall of Famers he’s played, we absolutely do as of right now.

Give them to me then.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Nah. I think everyone forgets that Jordan's early teams were blocked by those amazing Celtics teams and then those really good Detroit squads. He put up 47 in a playoff loss in 1986.

It's all subjective. For me, MJ is still the guy, but I'd put LeBron on an all top 5 squad.

That’s fine. Again, I don’t have any real argument against someone having Jordan over LeBron, but anyone else over him doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Give them to me then.

Just look at every team he’s played against in the finals. They are all cut and dry as they could be. Not gonna type every player out.

 

[HuskyHawk]

That’s fine. Again, I don’t have any real argument against someone having Jordan over LeBron, but anyone else over him doesn’t make sense to me.

I think there's some argument for Wilt. But you get into an era vs era thing to an even greater degree. Wilt is 5th in points and 1st in rebounds. Blocks stat wasn't kept back then, but he'd be pretty high on that list.

 

[Scoe]

Lebron joining forces doesn’t help his cause in a GOAT debate, winning his first with Miami looked cheesy. Winning your first as the guy is about overcoming the struggle, not to mention getting out clutched by JJ Barea and Jason Terry in the 2011 Finals and letting Deshawn Stevenson trash you. MJ puts those guys on a poster. MJ 3 peated without joining forces twice while Lebron couldn’t 3 peat while joining forces.

Lebron championship with Cleveland felt real. You saw the video emotion in his face like it was his first, the ones with the Heat and even the Mickey Mouse one felt fake and cheesy.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I think there's some argument for Wilt. But you get into an era vs era thing to an even greater degree. Wilt is 5th in points and 1st in rebounds. Blocks stat wasn't kept back then, but he'd be pretty high on that list.

I would have Kareem over Wilt, just because of competition over their careers. But 3-7ish is somewhat interchangeable imo.

 

[JohnFSilver]

The MJ vs Lebron GOAT debate is going to look pretty silly in the next decade. IF Wemby hits his ceiling he'll be above both of them

I wouldn’t be so sure. Those guys have a level of ball handling and domination that I am not sure Wemby has. Great player, certainly a HOF talent, but is he better than Luka, Jokic etc.

 

[superjohn]

Just look at every team he’s played against in the finals. They are all cut and dry as they could be. Not gonna type every player out.

I said Lebron has played with way more Hall of Famers than Jordan has. You responded with he played against way more too. I don't think we have numbers on that.

You're now talking about in NBA finals. I would agree with that. Jordan was stuck in the East playing against some of the best teams in the history of basketball, the East pretty much sucked compared to the West while Lebron was in the East.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Jordan played 17 games after having not played basketball for 2 years and playing a different sport professionally. Bulls would've destroyed the Magic had he played the last 2 seasons or even just that one season. Lebron has played with way more Hall of Famers than Jordan did.

I don’t understand the HOFs argument either. I’m sure Lebron would’ve preferred to have stable management and guys who held up like Scottie and then have a guy like Horace Grant replaced by Rodman over having to force different orgs to give him what he needs to win a championship.

According to this, there’s only 3 Finals Lebron played in where his team was the favorite to win.

NBA Finals Historical Series Odds List | Odds Shark

NBA Finals series prices have varied significantly through the years. For the 2023 NBA Finals, here's a look back at the odds from the last 13 seasons.

www.oddsshark.com

 

[superjohn]

I don’t understand the HOFs argument either. I’m sure Lebron would’ve preferred to have stable management and guys who held up like Scottie and then have a guy like Horace Grant replaced by Rodman over having to force different orgs to give him what he needs to win a championship.

According to this, there’s only 3 Finals Lebron played in where his team was the favorite to win.

NBA Finals Historical Series Odds List | Odds Shark

NBA Finals series prices have varied significantly through the years. For the 2023 NBA Finals, here's a look back at the odds from the last 13 seasons.

www.oddsshark.com

Look at the post above.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I said Lebron has played with way more Hall of Famers than Jordan has. You responded with he played against way more too. I don't think we have numbers on that.

You're now talking about in NBA finals. I would agree with that. Jordan was stuck in the East playing against some of the best teams in the history of basketball, the East pretty much sucked compared to the West while Lebron was in the East.

It seems there’s always an excuse or point you get to in order to drive home your Jordan>LeBron position. I simply said he played more HOFers. The East certainly wasn’t great but he beat some very good teams of the time, Celtics, Pistons, etc. Then played against Warriors teams that are arguably the greatest teams ever.