Saturday Mar 5 conference games (merged threads)

[HuskyFan1125]

OMG!!!!

Kari Korver sinks a contested 3 to tie the game at 61 with 6 seconds!

 

[HuskyFan1125]

Headed to OT!

 

[HuskyFan1125]

Bruins with all the momentum in the OT.

 

[mudcat]

It's not dirty if you don't know they are in the air. Obviously you don't go into them if you know they are in the air. But if you're watching the ball on the rim you don't always know if they are in the air or not. Sometimes they are and you foul them. But that doesn't mean you are a dirty player.

Ignorance is no defense. Still should be a foul.

 

[mudcat]

the list of horribles for DD include a 39% `FG%, 24.4% 3pt-fg%, A/T below any top 25 team and a steal/turnover ratio that implies she gives away twice the possessions that she gains....so what if she has a nifty move here and there, she should be on the bench and make room for someone who can respect their teammates and add value to the team

BUT....she shot a much better percentage than the rest of the TN team.

 

[Vowelguy]

the list of horribles for DD include a 39% `FG%, 24.4% 3pt-fg%, A/T below any top 25 team and a steal/turnover ratio that implies she gives away twice the possessions that she gains....so what if she has a nifty move here and there, she should be on the bench and make room for someone who can respect their teammates and add value to the team

Today she was 8/2o. Rest of team: 10/44.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

UCLA wins in OT 73-67

 

[geneticrex]

The Tenn game was so painful to watch (except for the outcome), I was forced to summon an anesthesiologist.

 

[Plebe]

UCLA wins in OT 73-67

Huge win for UCLA. They'd lost two overtime games in the regular season: one to Cal, the other to Notre Dame. Good for them, for throwing the OT monkey off their backs.

Kristine Anigwe had 26 points and 15 rebounds. Those are Jillian Alleyne-like numbers. Most outstanding freshman in the country.

Jordin Canada had 26 points and 6 assists. She and Monique Billings totally carried UCLA on a night when Nirra Fields went 2-for-11.

 

[Orangutan]

When Muffet made her ridiculous statement about Allen being the best PG, I was telling everyone that Jordin Canada, Tyra Buss, and Niya Johnson have all had more outstanding years as point guards. Allen would be lucky to make top 5.

Lindsay Allen has more assists than Canada, fewer turnovers, and shoots a better percentage (48.4% to 41.2%). Same for Buss. More assists, fewer turnovers, better shooting percentage (48.4% to 42.4%).

Those two do score more than Allen but that isn't Allen's job, really, and she can step up and score when necessary. Honestly, Canada vs. Allen is a pretty good discussion. I don't see the case for Buss at all other than the sheer number of points she scores.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Huge win for UCLA. They'd lost two overtime games in the regular season: one to Cal, the other to Notre Dame. Good for them, for throwing the OT monkey off their backs.

Kristine Anigwe had 26 points and 15 rebounds. Those are Jillian Alleyne-like numbers. Most outstanding freshman in the country.

Jordin Canada had 26 points and 6 assists. She and Monique Billings totally carried UCLA on a night when Nirra Fields went 2-for-11.

They've got some nice pieces. Canada and a Canadian (the veteran Fields). Three-point sharpshooter, Korver. Two athletic bigs in Billings and Drummer (?). Not sure about depth.

 

[Orangutan]

It's interesting that everyone blames DD for TNs troubles. I saw one stretch where on 3-4 straight possessions one TN player dribbled the ball the whole time and then took a bad shot (yes there were 0 passes). None of those were DD. Meanwhile Russell was taken out of the game down the stretch, showing how effective she had been. Bottom line: TN has ample problems. To me, DD is the least of their concerns.

Well, she is shooting below the team average both overall and from 3 while taking (by far) the most shots. So I don't know if she is the *least* of their concerns. She uses an awful lot of possessions inefficiently, though it is true that she is not alone in doing so.

I think criticism of Diamond is largely a reaction to ESPN's over-exuberant hype for her, which seems to persist no matter how poorly she may be playing in any given game.

 

[Plebe]

Lindsay Allen has more assists than Canada, fewer turnovers, and shoots a better percentage (48.4% to 41.2%). Same for Buss. More assists, fewer turnovers, better shooting percentage (48.4% to 42.4%).

Those two do score more than Allen but that isn't Allen's job, really, and she can step up and score when necessary. Honestly, Canada vs. Allen is a pretty good discussion. I don't see the case for Buss at all other than the sheer number of points she scores.

Where are you getting your stats? From what I'm seeing, Canada is averaging 6.0 assists per game, compared to Allen's 5.7. Allen does have a slightly better assist-to-turnover ratio, but Canada doubles her up on steals. When you throw in the wide discrepancy in scoring, to me it's not really close.

Buss has fewer assists and a lower ATR, but she has a lot more steals, rebounds, and points. This discussion is close and depends on how you weigh the relative value of different stats.

If you're going to argue that assists (and ATR) are more important than scoring, then Niya Johnson far outshines Allen.

 

[Plebe]

They've got some nice pieces. Canada and a Canadian (the veteran Fields). Three-point sharpshooter, Korver. Two athletic bigs in Billings and Drummer (?). Not sure about depth.

Their depth is hurting a bit right now because Kacy Swain, a regular starter, was just injured last week. I read somewhere that she is expected back for the NCAA tournament.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Their depth is hurting a bit right now because Kacy Swain, a regular starter, was just injured last week. I read somewhere that she is expected back for the NCAA tournament.

Thanks. Good to know.

 

[Orangutan]

Where are you getting your stats? From what I'm seeing, Canada is averaging 6.0 assists per game, compared to Allen's 5.7. Allen does have a slightly better assist-to-turnover ratio, but Canada doubles her up on steals. When you throw in the wide discrepancy in scoring, to me it's not really close.

Buss has fewer assists and a lower ATR, but she has a lot more steals, rebounds, and points. This discussion is close and depends on how you weigh the relative value of different stats.

If you're going to argue that assists (and ATR) are more important than scoring, then Niya Johnson far outshines Allen.

I was looking at totals, not per-game averages. From each team's website:

Allen - 921 minutes, 176 assists, 74 turnovers (2.38 A/TO)
Canada - 984 minutes, 174 assists, 88 turnovers (1.98 A/TO)
Buss - 1163 minutes, 134 assists, 112 turnovers (1.19 A/TO)

I do tend think that (for point guards specifically) efficiency and passing should count for more than scoring. So yes, Johnson is ahead of Allen statistically by my criteria.

Side note: I suspect Baylor's official scorer is exceedingly generous. 674 assists in 32 games for Baylor compared with 552 in 31 games for ND doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't change this discussion, though, because you can lop off 80 assists and Johnson's A/TO numbers are still excellent.

 

[Plebe]

I was looking at totals, not per-game averages. From each team's website:

Allen - 921 minutes, 176 assists, 74 turnovers (2.38 A/TO)
Canada - 984 minutes, 174 assists, 88 turnovers (1.98 A/TO)
Buss - 1163 minutes, 134 assists, 112 turnovers (1.19 A/TO)

I do tend think that (for point guards specifically) efficiency and passing should count for more than scoring. So yes, Johnson is ahead of Allen statistically by my criteria.

Side note: I suspect Baylor's official scorer is exceedingly generous. 674 assists in 32 games for Baylor compared with 552 in 31 games for ND doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't change this discussion, though, because you can lop off 80 assists and Johnson's A/TO numbers are still excellent.

Well, I think that assists per game is the apples-to-apples comparison, as opposed to total assists. And I notice that you don't want to talk about steals, but it's a must if we want to consider turnovers. Canada's ample advantage in steals more than makes up for her slighter disadvantage in turnovers.

Your preference for passing vs. scoring is, in my view, a rather arbitrary one. Both are important, in my opinion.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

The bracket committee is spared potential chaos as Oregon State survives Washington by 2.

 

[Plebe]

The bracket committee is spared potential chaos as Oregon State survives Washington by 2.

So based on the last top-10 reveal, we probably still have Texas #5, Oregon State #6, and Maryland #7 overall. My question is: Assuming the rest of the conference tourneys go to form (a big if, I know)—i.e., Texas loses for the 3rd time to Baylor, Oregon State beats UCLA, and Maryland beats MSU—will there be any movement among these 2 seeds?

Also, with Arizona State losing to Cal and Ohio State losing badly to MSU, did UCLA just sneak in and grab the last 2 seed?

 

[Vowelguy]

Well, she is shooting below the team average both overall and from 3 while taking (by far) the most shots. So I don't know if she is the *least* of their concerns. She uses an awful lot of possessions inefficiently, though it is true that she is not alone in doing so.

I think criticism of Diamond is largely a reaction to ESPN's over-exuberant hype for her, which seems to persist no matter how poorly she may be playing in any given game.

She is shooting 40%. Team is shooting 40%.
From 3, both she and team are shooting 25%.

And if you look player by player, there are only 2 with better shooting percentages -- the 2 post players, Russell and Graves.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't think it is actually happening repeatedly. I believe you are seeing things because you want to see them.

Same thing happened with ND fans where they wanted to see every screen Dolson set as an illegal hip check because it fit their agenda. And it was just as gross when they labeled her dirty or a cheater because of their heavily biased "observations".

It is happening repeatedly at least once per game since her Freshmen year. This year alone she has undercut Morgan Tuck and Stewie, Kelsey Mitchell , Diamond Deshields, Rebecca Greenwell, & Briana Butler. Dolson set many screens, some of them were illegal. Madison always undercuts undercutting is always illegal-per the rules.

 

[UcMiami]

Side note: I suspect Baylor's official scorer is exceedingly generous. 674 assists in 32 games for Baylor compared with 552 in 31 games for ND doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't change this discussion, though, because you can lop off 80 assists and Johnson's A/TO numbers are still excellent.

I used to think this, but I don't any more - it is the style of offense Baylor runs vs. say Uconn or ND - all three teams have pretty similar assist numbers each year - around 20+/- per game - but in Baylor's offense only one player actually gets the assists. If the pass from Johnson doesn't lead to a shot, the ball comes back out to Johnson to make another pass. Johnson accounts for 41.5% of Baylor's assists v Allen at 31.9% and Moriah at 24.2%. This fact actually makes Baylor an easier team to defend - if you can keep the ball out of Johnson's hands and pressure her heavily when she has it, their offense can be slowed down, as their one loss this year proved when she was out injured.

Does she perhaps get a few 'home court' assist each year - probably, but everyone does, and her numbers really are legitimate.

 

[UcMiami]

She is shooting 40%. Team is shooting 40%.
From 3, both she and team are shooting 25%.

And if you look player by player, there are only 2 with better shooting percentages -- the 2 post players, Russell and Graves.

Vowel guy - while I agree that DD gets a lot of criticism some of which is not deserved, and people tend to assume her 'attitude' is a team issue with no actual access to the team and what is really happening in the locker room, her stats are not good and not good comparatively to the rest of the team. She has put together a string of three decent games while the rest of the guards and wings have struggled more than usual which has raised her shooting percentage above them but it still is not pretty. You have two players shooting above 50% and they combined have taken 14 shots more than DD has by herself with her below 40% shooting - not the best ratio. And she has taken 34 more threes than the next most prolific three point shooter (37% more) and shoots them at the 5th best percentage on the team. The two best three point shooters on the team have taken fewer shots combined than DD. And her A/TO is 0.62 while the rest of the team is at 0.87 meaning she has 21% of the team turnovers and only 16% of the assist - her A/TO is worse than any player with more than 9 turnovers other than Russell.

 

[HuskyNan]

Vowel guy - while I agree that DD gets a lot of criticism some of which is not deserved, and people tend to assume her 'attitude' is a team issue with no actual access to the team and what is really happening in the locker room, her stats are not good and not good comparatively to the rest of the team. She has put together a string of three decent games while the rest of the guards and wings have struggled more than usual which has raised her shooting percentage above them but it still is not pretty. You have two players shooting above 50% and they combined have taken 14 shots more than DD has by herself with her below 40% shooting - not the best ratio. And she has taken 34 more threes than the next most prolific three point shooter (37% more) and shoots them at the 5th best percentage on the team. The two best three point shooters on the team have taken fewer shots combined than DD. And her A/TO is 0.62 while the rest of the team is at 0.87 meaning she has 21% of the team turnovers and only 16% of the assist - her A/TO is worse than any player with more than 9 turnovers other than Russell.

That Warlick permitted Diamond to do these things over the length of the season would indicate that that's what passes for her offensive plan. If Diamond were ignoring her coaches and just doing her own thing, she would (presumably) be sitting on the bench. I think Warlick's offense is "Get the ball inside or to Diamond. Whichever".

 

[rugbymate]

That Warlick permitted Diamond to do these things over the length of the season would indicate that that's what passes for her offensive plan. If Diamond were ignoring her coaches and just doing her own thing, she would (presumably) be sitting on the bench. I think Warlick's offense is "Get the ball inside or to Diamond. Whichever".

I think you raised the right question when trying to assess DD....are her numbers the result of too much being asked of her or are they due to her taking on too much herself and operating outside the coaching plan? I guess one could conclude that its either subpar coaching for a bad plan or subpar coaching for not sitting DD. However, despite the coaching issue, with the possible exception of the last couple of games, DD's numbers point to serious personal performance issues.