OT: New Casino near the Rent?

[whaler11]

It's important to remember that other player's mistakes are just as likely to help you as they are to hurt you.

Yes, I know that but it drives a lot of people nuts.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

? Do you mean that people cut the casino out during the recession and didn't go back?

I'm sure that is part of it.

Also part of it: most people learn over the course of time they are generally going to lose and stop touching the stove.

Plus they are two of the least enjoyable casinos to gamble in on the planet. Relatively high minimums - and everyone who plays table games is seemingly losing their last $100. Rarely does anyone seem to be having fun - the anger levels at the tables are sky high.

Years back, I went to a Tigers v. Yankees game at Comerica in Detroit and a friend from the area showed me that I could park at the Greektown Casino, have dinner, walk to the game, walk back, show my dinner ticket to validate my free parking pass and leave without betting a cent. But, do get it validate, I did have to walk through the Casino and it was so damn depressing. Doubt there was a person under the age of 70 in the place. That's the casino's biggest fear, their market is dying off and the young generation just is not into gambling.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Regarding the airport, Bradley is located strategically between Hartford and Springfield to accomodate both metropolitan areas. The 800 foot ridge is not an issue either.

It was problem once, which was enough for me as my folks, who had the nerve to go away on a vacation without me while I was at UConn, were on this flight.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_1572

 

[Husky25]

Years back, I went to a Tigers v. Yankees game at Comerica in Detroit and a friend from the area showed me that I could park at the Greektown Casino, have dinner, walk to the game, walk back, show my dinner ticket to validate my free parking pass and leave without betting a cent. But, do get it validate, I did have to walk through the Casino and it was so damn depressing. Doubt there was a person under the age of 70 in the place. That's the casino's biggest fear, their market is dying off and the young generation just is not into gambling.

Young folks are into gambling. It's just that:
1) There are other ways to it that don't involve the middleman.
2) Some also don't have the funds.
3) Craps, Blackjack and poker is easy enough to set up without green felt and the sucker bets.
4) just like almost anything can be made into a drinking game, they can bet on anything too...i.e. video games.

 

[Waquoit]

Young folks are into gambling.

Yeah, like Draft Kings.

 

[Husky25]

Yeah, like Draft Kings.

Not going to dispute that.

 

[whaler11]

Yeah, like Draft Kings.

This is the absolute reality. Major League Baseball is going all in on legalized gambling and it will be it's salvation.

Adam Silver is ahead of the curve on the topic as well.

Football is king because of gambling - the other professional sports took a while to catch on.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Casinos in the CT, and AC aren't doing well because they didn't (and still don't) respond to the demands of the market. People don't want boxes of slots and tables. Go to one of the many successful casinos in Las Vegas and you'll realize very quickly why Foxwoods and Mohegan are tanking. The two here overexpanded their gaming space, instead of adding in attractions and amenities that make them destinations that people will travel to from far and wide. The vast majority of properties in Las Vegas, especially the ones that are most profitable, earn the majority of their money from non-casino revenue - restaurants, shows, retail, exhibits, nightlife, other attractions. The ones here have tried to do that, but responded too late and with very underwhelming options.

A box of slots in East Hartford is not a meaningful long-term revenue producer on any scale. No one wants to go to East Hartford, just as no one wants to go to Ledyard or Uncasville. Not to mention, MGM is going in half an hour north, and Wynn is going in 90 minutes northeast. Both of those properties will collectively crush CT casinos. That's why Mohegan and their cronies in Revere who lost the bid for Boston's gambling license are pulling Stop lawsuits out of their ass to try and stop Wynn. They know they screwed up royally in the 2000s and are paying dearly for it now.

 

[whaler11]

Casinos in the CT, and AC aren't doing well because they didn't (and still don't) respond to the demands of the market. People don't want boxes of slots and tables. Go to one of the many successful casinos in Las Vegas and you'll realize very quickly why Foxwoods and Mohegan are tanking. The two here overexpanded their gaming space, instead of adding in attractions and amenities that make them destinations that people will travel to from far and wide. The vast majority of properties in Las Vegas, especially the ones that are most profitable, earn the majority of their money from non-casino revenue - restaurants, shows, retail, exhibits, nightlife, other attractions. The ones here have tried to do that, but responded too late and with very underwhelming options.

A box of slots in East Hartford is not a meaningful long-term revenue producer on any scale. No one wants to go to East Hartford, just as no one wants to go to Ledyard or Uncasville. Not to mention, MGM is going in half an hour north, and Wynn is going in 90 minutes northeast. Both of those properties will collectively crush CT casinos. That's why Mohegan and their cronies in Revere who lost the bid for Boston's gambling license are pulling bull lawsuits out of their ass to try and stop Wynn. They know they screwed up royally in the 2000s and are paying dearly for it now.

Yes Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun didn't build enough restaurants and arenas.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Yes Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun didn't build enough restaurants and arenas.

That anyone wanted to go to. The arena is basically the only thing keeping Mohegan afloat. No shows, no real attractions, no form of exhibit, nightlife only started popping up recently - and there again they're hindered by the fact that they're in the bottom corner of the state, away from population centers, and a long(ish) drive for everyone. They both did little to offer people of the northeast an experience they couldn't get elsewhere outside of gaming.

 

[whaler11]

That anyone wanted to go to. The arena is basically the only thing keeping Mohegan afloat. No shows, no real attractions, no form of exhibit, nightlife only started popping up recently - and there again they're hindered by the fact that they're in the bottom corner of the state, away from population centers, and a long(ish) drive for everyone. They both did little to offer people of the northeast an experience they couldn't get elsewhere outside of gaming.

Yeah I've been kicking dirt on their grave this entire thread - but you can't say they didn't try.

It's certainly not a lack of restaurants.

Mohegan is an easier example. They built a casino that has more than 95% of the properties in Vegas but they don't have a captive audience.

 

[Stinger92860]

Well this is the case wherever you go. The odds are what they are. I don't think the minimums are all that bad. You can generally find a $10 table for most games. On a Friday or Saturday night you shouldn't have a problem finding a $15 table. I've never been to Vegas but my understanding is that even there on a weekend it's tough to find anything below $10.

As an aside, Mohegan actually has some of the most favorable Blackjack rules you'll find with a house edge of under 0.5% if you actually know basic strategy.

In Vegas if you go downtown, which is fun, you can easily find 5 dollar tables. I have actually seen clocks in casino's there.

 

[Waquoit]

It's certainly not a lack of restaurants.

Or shows. Or attractions. Like you said, it's all about that captive audience. I was looking to spend my birthday there. But not at $600 I'm not. That tells me there is still some demand.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Casinos in the CT, and AC aren't doing well because they didn't (and still don't) respond to the demands of the market. People don't want boxes of slots and tables. Go to one of the many successful casinos in Las Vegas and you'll realize very quickly why Foxwoods and Mohegan are tanking. The two here overexpanded their gaming space, instead of adding in attractions and amenities that make them destinations that people will travel to from far and wide. The vast majority of properties in Las Vegas, especially the ones that are most profitable, earn the majority of their money from non-casino revenue - restaurants, shows, retail, exhibits, nightlife, other attractions. The ones here have tried to do that, but responded too late and with very underwhelming options.

No to mention that for 4 months of the years minimum (December through March), Connecticut's weather is not conductive to attracting people from far and wide. And, if they do come, they are likely to get stuck in a snowbank somewhere along their 60 mile drive from Bradley or Providence. I think its less than 10 miles from McCarran to the Bellagio.

 

[whaler11]

Or shows. Or attractions. Like you said, it's all about that captive audience. I was looking to spend my birthday there. But not at $600 I'm not. That tells me there is still some demand.

Weekends they still fill the hotels. I got a suite at the Sun for my birthday for 3 nights at $99 a night.

It's a ghosttown on weeknights - it's depressing.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Or shows. Or attractions. Like you said, it's all about that captive audience. I was looking to spend my birthday there. But not at $600 I'm not. That tells me there is still some demand.

They tried. They purchased a lot of property in the area(and now reselling). For example a 200 acre Six Flags was going to North Stonington in the late 90's but...

 

[Husky25]

No to mention that for 4 months of the years minimum (December through March), Connecticut's weather is not conductive to attracting people from far and wide. And, if they do come, they are likely to get stuck in a snowbank somewhere along their 60 mile drive from Bradley or Providence. I think its less than 10 miles from McCarran to the Bellagio.

McCarran is much closer, but they can do that out there. It's wide open. Vegas is an oasis and along with Henderson, it is literally the only thing in the middle of desert.

I used to have a romanticized view of Vegas, then I went there (last summer).

It only seems like there is more to do there because there are 14 hotels all with convention centers, arenas, and theatres within the same 7 block location and they need to attract people. Yes there are $5 tables, but there are far more degenerates and Vegas gets you in other ways too. The town is built on the $20 handshake because the entire Vegas economy is based on hospitality and entertainment. The Strip is way over priced but the majority of the customers don't care because they are either on vacation or at a convention and on an expense account. Vegas knows this. They also know that their tip depends largely on their mood, so most of the non-dealer staff are over-the-top pleasant and accommodate your every wish. It's pleasant enough on day 1, but you absolutely start to see through it by day 5 and you just want to punch them all in throat, Fishy-style.

Plus, it's awfully tough to go outside because it's 96 degrees in the shade by the time you wake up. You're pretty much forced to stay in the same building.

 

[Ts5034]

Im not trying to start a conspiracy. I just have a feeling that what these casinos say is a little different from the reality. First of all, Mohegan and Foxwoods claim they are "hurting" with revenues down. Im only going to speak on Mohegan because thats where I go. I just dont understand how they can charge $400 and up for a room on a Friday or Saturday and claim they are hurting for business. Even in the warm weather months especially the summer, the rooms are rarely under $200 for Sunday-Thursday. Maybe the new 400 room hotel they are building will help lower the rates a little. Also, like other people have said in this thread, the table minimums are mostly $15 and $25. There used to be a pit of all $5 tables right when you walk in the Sky valet entrance. I was there Saturday and it was cut in half. The other half was $10. To me, that doesnt seem like a place that is hurting for business.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Im not trying to start a conspiracy. I just have a feeling that what these casinos say is a little different from the reality. First of all, Mohegan and Foxwoods claim they are "hurting" with revenues down. Im only going to speak on Mohegan because thats where I go. I just dont understand how they can charge $400 and up for a room on a Friday or Saturday and claim they are hurting for business. Even in the warm weather months especially the summer, the rooms are rarely under $200 for Sunday-Thursday. Maybe the new 400 room hotel they are building will help lower the rates a little. Also, like other people have said in this thread, the table minimums are mostly $15 and $25. There used to be a pit of all $5 tables right when you walk in the Sky valet entrance. I was there Saturday and it was cut in half. The other half was $10. To me, that doesn't seem like a place that is hurting for business.

Its also likely preemptive politics because a two new casinos in Mass (Springfield and Everett/Boston) will hurt their business. Plus, I am sure they see the mess that Atlantic City is today, whose problems stem in part from the new Casinos in Eastern PA, and they do not want to find themselves in the same situation.

 

[whaler11]

When your revenue goes from 3.5 billion to 2 billion in ten years with more comp coming... it's no conspiracy.

 

[John]

Im not trying to start a conspiracy. I just have a feeling that what these casinos say is a little different from the reality. First of all, Mohegan and Foxwoods claim they are "hurting" with revenues down. Im only going to speak on Mohegan because thats where I go. I just dont understand how they can charge $400 and up for a room on a Friday or Saturday and claim they are hurting for business.

Yeah, but you're Tony Soprano. Don't you get a room comped?

 

[Duncan Idaho]

When your revenue goes from 3.5 billion to 2 billion in ten years with more comp coming... it's no conspiracy.

Yep, and their level of staffing reflects it too.

 

[Ts5034]

Are they making as much money as they were years ago? No they are not, and I dont disagree. But they are still making more then enough money to operate at a high level and stuff their pockets with millions. I honestly think a lot of it is just greed. Im really interested to see what happens when the casinos in Mass open up. The MGM in Springfield is scheduled to open fall 2016. From what I have read, it will be a lot smaller than Mohegan and Foxwoods. The hotel will have 400 rooms and by that time it will only be a quarter of the amount that Mohegan will have. We will see how much that affects them

 

[whaler11]

Moody's isnt lying

http://www.masslive.com/business-ne...mohegan_sun_faces_financial_peril_in_los.html

 

[Husky25]

When your revenue goes from 3.5 billion to 2 billion in ten years with more comp coming... it's no conspiracy.

I assume you are talking a bout both resorts combined, because Mohegan's revenues have never been anywhere near $3 Billion. Be that as it may, you are correct in saying it is no conspiracy.

Because you can make the income statement say almost anything you want, the Statement of Cash Flows is a more informative tool. Mohegan still has a very healthy cash flow from operations (over $73 Million), but it is down from 2013 ($102 Million), way down from 2012 ($170 Million), and way, way, way down from 2007 ($250 Million). Of course, there are reasons for this (some tangible, some a little less, as is the case in any set of Financials). But at a glance, yes, Mohegan is comparatively hurting from just 2 years ago.