One of the G.O.A.T talks about a Rising Superstar...

[hoophuskee]

1. We are talking about one of four losses in the Maya era. One out of four; In an era that included a 90 game winning streak. Whether Maya's game allows for others to get involved or not(again, you are going to have to supplement that argument considering that Tina Charles and Renee Montgomery were AAs during Maya's time at Storrs), it was a formula/coaching decision that worked all but four times in four years.
2. UConn did not lose that national semifinal to Notre Dame due to lack of offense or because Maya got no help. UConn played well enough offensively to win that game. They scored 32 points in the first half and went into the locker room with a six point lead. UConn scored 31 points in the second half and lost by 9 with Notre Dame exploding for 46 second half points; Reminiscent of the 2001 national semifinal against the same program. A team is not going to win too many tournament games when an opposing team gets that hot; And, when an individual opposing player plays a game that puts them among all time great opponent performances.
3. Are you suggesting that scoring was not Ms Taurasi's Number 1 strength? She could flat out score.

1-- Now we are going by wins and losses? You and wall east have been "liking" one another for quite some time on this thread but read one of his 1st posts. He said posters get -10 points for those that count titles because that is a "team" thing. Yet you want to count wins and losses? Isn't that a team thing too?

2-- UCONN played Notre Dame 4 times that year. Three of the 4 times they scored more than UCONN's 63 points. One game which UCONN won Notre Dame scored 76 points. Why couldn't UCONN score more in this game or equal to what they did before? Who messed up? If we could score 79 before why not again?

3-- You're right her scoring was her number 1 strength. Her passing was better than Maya's though. Do you agree? If you don't. I'll ask you the same question I asked wally.
Can you tell me if you feel there is a difference between passing great let's say vs a Notre Dame or vs a University of Hartford?

 

[Fiftyish]

More than every now and then -- her senior year she shot 41.1% for 3-pters (I know, I know, STATS.)

Yeah, but she only attempted 141 3pointers compared to DT's 218 and Strother's 161. Sorta every now and then.

 

[VAUConnFan]

1-- Now we are going by wins and losses? You and wall east have been "liking" one another for quite some time on this thread but read one of his 1st posts. He said posters get -10 points for those that count titles because that is a "team" thing. Yet you want to count wins and losses? Isn't that a team thing too?

2-- UCONN played Notre Dame 4 times that year. Three of the 4 times they scored more than UCONN's 63 points. One game which UCONN won Notre Dame scored 76 points. Why couldn't UCONN score more in this game or equal to what they did before? Who messed up? If we could score 79 before why not again?

3-- You're right her scoring was her number 1 strength. Her passing was better than Maya's though. Do you agree? If you don't. I'll ask you the same question I asked wally.
Can you tell me if you feel there is a difference between passing great let's say vs a Notre Dame or vs a University of Hartford?

1. I was responding to your assertion about getting other players involved.
2. A number of years back(Post Play, started August 29, 2011), the issue of playing a team four times in a season came up for which my crack research determined that at no time in the women's game has a team swept an opponent they have played four times in a season. The very fact that it was the fourth game between Notre Dame and UConn made it a difficult feat for the Huskies.
Who messed up? As far as I am concerned, no one messed up. It was just Notre Dame's Day with Skylar Diggins leading the way with 28 points. Only Tonya Sampson has had a better outing against UConn in the Auriemma era.
If UConn could score 79 before why not again? That is the very nature of sports. Remember, too, that UConn had an opponent on the floor determined to keep them from repeating the success of the previous three outings. Why does a pitcher who has struck out a guy four previous times in a game, give up a homerun on the 5th at bat? Why does a player who has been perfect from the line all season, miss a critical free throw in the final minute of a crucial tournament game(UCLA-Louisville 1975)? How does Villanova beat Georgetown in 1985? How did Team USA beat the Red Army team in 1980? How does a golfer shoot a round of 66 come back the next day on the same course, similar conditions, and shoot 80? Sports and competition.
3. If you twist my arm, yes, Diana Taurasi was an excellent passer; Better than Maya. Also a better ball handler than Maya.
Of course there is a difference between playing a very good team and playing a mediocre team. What is your point, though? Are you suggesting that one played against consistently better competition? Is so, who? Are you also suggesting that Taurasi's passing ability is what, in your mind, separates her from Maya?

 

[MilfordHusky]

Equally impressive is her scoring in double digits in 149 of 154 career games.

That's the NCAA record. 149 double-digit games. What the hell went wrong in the other 5?

 

[Wally East]

[ ... ]

Sigh.

1. You're getting the number wrong, and, ohmygosh, you're lowballing it . But: People said Stef was a gifted passer and she averaged fewer assists per game than Maya. Sveta, too, who averaged about the same as Maya (maybe a tenth or two more, I'm forgetting at the moment).

2. No, that article was pretty close to garbage but I would have to get paid to care less than I already do about Rodman vs. whomever.

3. I have literally no idea what you're trying to say with point 3.

You're focused on stats. Great. Show me the stats that show that D is a better player than Maya. I mean, that's what we're discussing.

 

[UcMiami]

All I have to say is that we definitely need a bigger mountain than that puny little Rushmore for our Uconn Huskies - I need to carve at least five heads in stone, and would really be happier if we could expand that to an Olympic team sized twelve! Who comes first or fifth or 12th doesn't really matter, and while I love getting into stats and 'eye tests' and intangibles and teammates and competition, it really comes down to balancing everything out and I really dislike pulling down one player to build up a case for another.

Maya (or Sveta or Nykesha) and Diana and Tina (or Stef or Rebecca) and Sue (or Moriah) and Breanna all played fundamentally different positions with fundamentally different bodies and skills so how many points and assists and rebounds and steals and fouls are going to be fundamentally different and how they picked up those stats are going to be fundamentally different. And they did them on different teams with different competition. To come up with a definitive answer is impossible. To state a favorite is great, to cite some stats and accomplishments to back up that favorite is also great, but to pretend that someone else's favorite within a universe of great players playing different positions is 'wrong' is silly.

Personally if DT, Maya, Breanna, and either Sue or Moriah were all graduating this year and I had first pick in the draft for my team I would first have to study my roster carefully before deciding who to pick - because any one of them would be a godsend, and I would select the one where my current team was weakest. (Or I would see who would trade the most to move from pick 2, 3 , or 4 to switch picks with me, because I would still be getting a great game changer with any one of the other picks! )

 

[hoophuskee]

1. I was responding to your assertion about getting other players involved.
2. A number of years back(Post Play, started August 29, 2011), the issue of playing a team four times in a season came up for which my crack research determined that at no time in the women's game has a team swept an opponent they have played four times in a season. The very fact that it was the fourth game between Notre Dame and UConn made it a difficult feat for the Huskies.
Who messed up? As far as I am concerned, no one messed up. It was just Notre Dame's Day with Skylar Diggins leading the way with 28 points. Only Tonya Sampson has had a better outing against UConn in the Auriemma era.
If UConn could score 79 before why not again? That is the very nature of sports. Remember, too, that UConn had an opponent on the floor determined to keep them from repeating the success of the previous three outings. Why does a pitcher who has struck out a guy four previous times in a game, give up a homerun on the 5th at bat? Why does a player who has been perfect from the line all season, miss a critical free throw in the final minute of a crucial tournament game(UCLA-Louisville 1975)? How does Villanova beat Georgetown in 1985? How did Team USA beat the Red Army team in 1980? How does a golfer shoot a round of 66 come back the next day on the same course, similar conditions, and shoot 80? Sports and competition.
3. If you twist my arm, yes, Diana Taurasi was an excellent passer; Better than Maya. Also a better ball handler than Maya.
Of course there is a difference between playing a very good team and playing a mediocre team. What is your point, though? Are you suggesting that one played against consistently better competition? Is so, who? Are you also suggesting that Taurasi's passing ability is what, in your mind, separates her from Maya?

1-- I specifically spoke of one game in which Maya had just 2 assists. You brought up an entire career of wins and losses. I don't see what that has to do with assists? We know Maya's teams have won games defensively (in which passing wasn't a factor)? For example, in her sr year vs ND one game she had 1 assist vs 6 turnovers. SO to include her overall record in her era and using it against my point of assists in that single game I was referencing imo is irrelevant. Unless if you want to bring up eras and "wins and losses" then this means I can elaborate and speak how DT got everyone involved more by winning 3 titles in 4 years. In one breathe you can't say " number of titles" for DT don't mean anything then in the next breathe use total team record as a trump card. Maya had two assists but 4 turnovers in her last game. Who else did she get involved in the game? If she was a gifted passer as wally said and no one one messed up then why did we only score 63 points when all the other games that year vs ND we scored over 72?

2-- No one messed up? So we were favored to win. We lost. And the game wasn't considered a great well played game like on the men's side Ky vs Duke of years ago, was it? SO someone or several had to mess up. Or unless you are saying no one is to be held accountable? Maybe my wording is too harsh but what can you point to offensively when we played ND that we didn't do well this time around? Because if we scored only 63 points in 4 games vs ND - we lose three out of four. If we scored what we did in the prior three games, we win the game. Each of the three games prior we scored over the 72 points ND scored. So offense had to be the problem, right?

3-- We can point to - the last two games vs ND - the rest of the team had an EFG% of 40.28% in the win and 39.66% in the loss. Yet the two prior wins the rest of the team had an EFG% of 62.79% and 47.56%. Why were we dropping and why couldn't UCONN score as much as they had in the prior 3? Maya got her points. So what happened?

4-- IMO all you have to do is look at the games that UCONN was threatened - games which were 10 points or less or were lost. Maya had 18 assists to go along with 21 turnovers. Look at the Stanford game, Maya had 4 assists no turnovers but had 3 assists in the 1sthalf. UCONN was only losing by 4 at half. The EFG% in that loss, take away Maya's numbers, their EFG% was 38.04%. When we blew out ND that year Maya had 7 assists and 3 turnovers. The EFG% from the other players was 62.79%.

************Maya is the greatest scorer in wcbb that I have ever seen. If that is the argument okay along with her defense and relentless dogged determination and day 1 she was great to her last day. IMO her and DT are right there - either/or. I just don't think an overview look of DT's stats as a comparison tells the whole story. I think she has "Bill Russell-like qualities" that can't be measured or deeper advanced stats that we don't see. The reason for my question about individual games is that games that are won comfortably vs bad teams are different than games in which you are threatened. The overall stats of Maya's passing reflect overall she had good number of assists and few turnovers. But for example when we view her senior year - games which UCONN was threatened- and including the blowout of ND - she had 25 assists and 24 turnovers. Excluign it - her numbers are 18 asst vs 21 T.O.. Those stats are more important imo- tells me a bit more of Maya's passing than her getting high number of assists vs weak teams. IMO when comparing all-time greats there should be a distinction. I did not check DT's. SO maybe someone can come back at me and show DT's weren't any good later in her career. But I know some games she was hurt - and in her last two years I didn't think she had Maya's firepower of teammates. I always thought Tiffany Hayes had lots of game> I am still stunned the moronic GM's passed on her until the 2nd round. Just like last year many of us KNEW Stokes could play. Didn't know she'd be such an impact but "the Doris Burke exaggerations" were a bit over-the-top imo.

 

[hoophuskee]

Sigh.

1. You're getting the number wrong, and, ohmygosh, you're lowballing it . But: People said Stef was a gifted passer and she averaged fewer assists per game than Maya. Sveta, too, who averaged about the same as Maya (maybe a tenth or two more, I'm forgetting at the moment).

2. No, that article was pretty close to garbage but I would have to get paid to care less than I already do about Rodman vs. whomever.

3. I have literally no idea what you're trying to say with point 3.

You're focused on stats. Great. Show me the stats that show that D is a better player than Maya. I mean, that's what we're discussing.

1-- My mistake I lowballed 3 assists vs 3.5 assists.1a-- Ohmygosh is right. So now we know DT is a gifted passer so Dolson was a gifted passer as a center - but somehow that makes her comparable to a guar Please. . . - you're taking thigns that literal? Why not say Wilt and Russell were as great as passers as STeve Nash and Stockton? They bother were "gifted" at their positions, right? Now Dolson in comparison to DT as passers because they are both "gifted? Sigh.

2-- I provide you stats- and imo all you are doing is cherry-picking what you want to believe to fit your argument. If that is the way you are going to handle it- then our conversation is done.

3-- I don't believe you when you say you don't know what I'm saying with number 3. I was comparing Gabby vs Tuck this year before tonight's game. Who had the better stats on a per minute basis? And overall Gabby's fg% numbers were superior along with all of her other stats (rebounding, block,s steals) other than assists vs turnovers. These are stats that you use when comparing DT vs Maya. How hard is it to figure that out?

4-- I see you didn't answer Russell's fg% question? Or the defensive stats for Russell. Why is he so high on your list? Ignoring fg% for Russell yet you have no problem cherry-picking other stats. It's okay we all have stats that we prefer. IMO you cherry-pick yours for this thread to try to fit your pov.

5-- I'm not focused on stats - I was countering your initial posts of placing so much emphasis on them. I just showed you the stat numbers of Rodman vs Wilt vs Russell. Your choosing to ignore the stats is no more relevant than anyone that has replied to you and said they think DT is better. All I can say is- you used total rebound numbers per game to define Russell as an all-time great. I think that is so silly. SO I'm sorry the guy or girl speaking of Rodman imo has a lot more credibility than your use of stats in this particular instance. As I said before you got me back off months ago with Lobo vs Tina. But In this instance imo you are cherry-picking. Total rebound numbers per game and a pathetic shooting percentage along with no defensive data doesn't put a guy among the top 5 centers ever. I can't trust how you look at things if this is how you are with Russell.

 

[hoophuskee]

I just want to make it clear. Maya is a beast. It seems like I am bashing her. I hate it. I am not. She is the most amazing scorer I have ever seen. Best ever. She can pass. She is relentless. She can defend. I love Maya. Man -- this stinks I look back at my posts and I am attacking arguably the greatest wcb I have ever seen. I enjoy the banter back-and-forth= I regret it might have gotten a little hostile. This thread is over for me. Maya and DT are right there. what can I say? And Stewie just want tt see how she finishes. I love Maya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CONNMAN98]

1-- My mistake I lowballed 3 assists vs 3.5 assists.1a-- Ohmygosh is right. So now we know DT is a gifted passer so Dolson was a gifted passer as a center - but somehow that makes her comparable to a guar Please. . . - you're taking thigns that literal? Why not say Wilt and Russell were as great as passers as STeve Nash and Stockton? They bother were "gifted" at their positions, right? Now Dolson in comparison to DT as passers because they are both "gifted? Sigh.

2-- I provide you stats- and imo all you are doing is cherry-picking what you want to believe to fit your argument. If that is the way you are going to handle it- then our conversation is done.

3-- I don't believe you when you say you don't know what I'm saying with number 3. I was comparing Gabby vs Tuck this year before tonight's game. Who had the better stats on a per minute basis? And overall Gabby's fg% numbers were superior along with all of her other stats (rebounding, block,s steals) other than assists vs turnovers. These are stats that you use when comparing DT vs Maya. How hard is it to figure that out?

4-- I see you didn't answer Russell's fg% question? Or the defensive stats for Russell. Why is he so high on your list? Ignoring fg% for Russell yet you have no problem cherry-picking other stats. It's okay we all have stats that we prefer. IMO you cherry-pick yours for this thread to try to fit your pov.

5-- I'm not focused on stats - I was countering your initial posts of placing so much emphasis on them. I just showed you the stat numbers of Rodman vs Wilt vs Russell. Your choosing to ignore the stats is no more relevant than anyone that has replied to you and said they think DT is better. All I can say is- you used total rebound numbers per game to define Russell as an all-time great. I think that is so silly. SO I'm sorry the guy or girl speaking of Rodman imo has a lot more credibility than your use of stats in this particular instance. As I said before you got me back off months ago with Lobo vs Tina. But In this instance imo you are cherry-picking. Total rebound numbers per game and a pathetic shooting percentage along with no defensive data doesn't put a guy among the top 5 centers ever. I can't trust how you look at things if this is how you are with Russell.

You don't think Russell is among the top 5 centers ever? I'm sorry but I would take the word of almost every NBA player who has ever seen him play or played against him over your or my opinion.

 

[hoophuskee]

You don't think Russell is among the top 5 centers ever? I'm sorry but I would take the word of almost every NBA player who has ever seen him play or played against him over your or my opinion.

First off I had to peak. Glad it was nothing to do with DT vs Maya. But . . . No No NO NO NO!!! You got me ALL wrong!

I think Bill Russell is 2nd greatest player ever. You are new I see. Some will mention to you as I am - read all the posts. I respect wally a a lot it may not seem that way. In this subject I think we both got disgusted with one another. That happens. Nothing too bad. I mentioned on this thread to all that Wally got me to re-think Tina vs Lobo. So on those threads I said nothing.

And I apologize wally if I am mistaken here - but connman read from the start. Wally seems to be suggesting stats matter an awful awful awful lot. After those who say DT is ahead he asks "why?" Absolutely legit question. But anyhow he mentions stats a lot. I just try to make a point that stats don't tell everything. He may never have said they do-- but I just want to bring up that they don't. So for those that say DT- imo they are primarily saying "Stats don't mean everything." Look at a post between wally and uvauconn fan. They are both agreeing - "how can anyone say DT was better?"

I brought up Russell because his stats are nowhere near Wilt's. Yet couldn't both wally and uvauconnfan ask the same question of Russell vs Wilt if there was a thread asking who was better for those that chose Russell? As I mentioned on this thread - recently Phil Jackson asked who would he take with the overall 1st pick- he said Russell. So it's not like picking a player because of certain intangibles is out in left-field. So if you are picking Russell over Wilt then obviously you aren't picking him because of stats. SO further I mentioned - if you like stats so much -- why would you have Russell near the top? You are going to place him all-time top ten for example because of his "rebound numbers per game?" I don't think that satts drives Russell. Anyways, for those that pick DT, why bother to mention stats to them as a comparison? IMO to pick DT is a "feel" is just like it is to pick "Russell." And if stats show so much - then before last night's game -- Gabby had overall better stats than Tuck. But no way she is better. So stats aren't everything.

Just curious who do you think is greater, Russell or Wilt? I choose Russell. You can see Wally chooses Wilt. There is nothing wrong with either imo. But if you are choosing Wilt, one thing you are definitely looking at are stats, right? Nothing wrong with going with Maya or DT either imo.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Diana's take on the G.O.A.T.:

"There better be a statue of her around here," Taurasi said. "Right next to Jonathan [outside Gampel Pavilion]. How can you not say she's the best ever to play college basketball? It would be hard to argue with the things she has done. If you put it against anyone's resume, it would be really hard to argue."

Guess who she is referring to?

http://www.courant.com/sports/hc-jacobs-column-usa-basketball-0222-20160221-column.html

 

[Wally East]

Well, no, not really. I'm saying people could explain why they think DT is better because here are a bunch of statistical reasons why one could believe Maya is better. For example, earlier in this thread, I said:

"And negative 10 points to anyone who says that Diana has three rings to Maya's two. You have to do better than that because we're talking about individual players over the course of their careers"

"If you can't explain why player X is better than player Y, even in a qualitative manner, your dismissal of arguments you don't care for is little more than nattering." ( ... I could've been nicer about that)

In response to meyers7 saying he'd pick DT over Maya:

Okay. Fair enough.

Why?

and then again to meyers7 regarding a hypothetical draft of all UConn players:

what makes you think D is the best player available?

There was also this, in regards to the idea that stats can be made to whatever you'd like to them to say: "If one can find stats that will say anything, then find them. Find the stats that say D was better than Maya."

But, anyway. People just say that DT is better than Maya just because that's what they want to believe, which, hey have at it. I'm always curious as to why but if people can't articulate it, I chalk up their belief to blind faith.

There are blind alleys to the discussion like she won three titles to Maya's two and she won with a less experienced team (a claim that is borderline, at best). Those don't *really* have to do with either of them directly.

But, seriously: Whatever. DT was certainly truly great. She undoubtedly had a greater flair for the dramatic and making dramatic shots than anyone who played at UConn, maybe of any player I've ever seen. She didn't lose at the Final Four (except for that one time when she did) (she saved her losses for teams like Villanova (twice) and Boston College). She did get to beat Tennessee a bunch and punch a stanchion and Maya didn't because Pat was obviously scared of playing UConn with Maya (which should be a point for Maya but never seems to be )

Think what you want. Supply reasons or not. Include stats or not. It literally does not matter in the slightest