Moriah is NOT one of the Four Finalist for Dawn Staley Award

[DobbsRover2]

I really don't think Loyd needs any defense for shooting 47% Did I miss something and 47% is suddenly a bad shooting percentage for a guard!? I know Jefferson is shooting 58% but that's an insane number for a guard (and one that underscores how bad of an omission from this list she is).

Just looking at last year's AAs: Jewell shot 52%, Mitchell shot 49%, Hartley shot 47%, McBride shot 47%, and Sims shot 45%. 47% is right in line with what one would expect from an All-American shooting guard.

Right, and this year Loyd's shooting 5 percent worse. Is that good? Look in the averages for this year's top shooting guards, and many are above the 47% mark. Is it horrible? No of course not or she wouldn't be one of the favorites for NPOY, but she's a shooting guard, and the percentage should be better if she's one of the best.

So you are saying that Hartley was given the same consideration for these awards last year as Loyd is? If so, why not put your stats in context. Hartley shot a huge amount of 3s, and as I'm sure you realize, that brings your percentage down a lot. Loyd doesn't have that excuse. As noted, she's shooting 46.6% overall and 49.6% from inside the arc. Bria shot 47.0% overall last year and 55.5% from inside. There were a lot of complaints both of Bria's last two years that her shooting was a problem, but now there's posters saying that someone who shoots worse may be one of the top favorites for the NPOY.

Makes sense I guess, or not.

 

[Orangutan]

Right, and this year Loyd's shooting 5 percent worse. Is that good? Look in the averages for this year's top shooting guards, and many are above the 47% mark.

So you are saying that Hartley was given the same consideration for these awards last year as Loyd is?

I think the shooting percentage drop is a direct result of attracting more attention without McBride. I love Mabrey but she's no McBride.

I actually did look at the percentages for every major conference guard with a usage percentage over 30 (Jewell's is 31) and Jewell had a higher percentage than all of them. The list was something like Lia Galdeira, Kelsey Mitchell, Kelsey Plum, Courtney Williams, Brittany Hrynko, Nikki Dixon, Kaela Davis.

There are number of prominent guards that have her by a few percentage points - but none of them are scoring 20 ppg either. Maybe Jewell should shoot less - that's another discussion - as an ND fan, I wanted the ball in her hands whenever possible.

As for your last question, I'm obviously not saying that. And for what it's worth I think Stewart is obviously the best player in the country. I just don't see why people are coming at Jewell for shooting 47% while leading the ACC in scoring and leading a team full of underclassmen (albeit highly-rated ones) to the #2 ranking in the country.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I think the shooting percentage drop is a direct result of attracting more attention without McBride. I love Mabrey but she's no McBride.

I actually did look at the percentages for every major conference guard with a usage percentage over 30 (Jewell's is 31) and Jewell had a higher percentage than all of them. The list was something like Lia Galdeira, Kelsey Mitchell, Kelsey Plum, Courtney Williams, Brittany Hrynko, Nikki Dixon, Kaela Davis.

There are number of prominent guards that have her by a few percentage points - but none of them are scoring 20 ppg either. Maybe Jewell should shoot less - that's another discussion - as an ND fan, I wanted the ball in her hands whenever possible.

As for your last question, I'm obviously not saying that. And for what it's worth I think Stewart is obviously the best player in the country. I just don't see why people are coming at Jewell for shooting 47% while leading the ACC in scoring and leading a team full of underclassmen (albeit highly-rated ones) to the #2 ranking in the country.

I could be wrong but I don't remember anyone bring up Loyd's shooting percentage until an ND fan did so. I think the major bone of contention is with those who think the NPOY race is between two players. The year may have started out that way but things have changed. There are now legitimate questions as to whether Loyd is having a better year than Jefferson.

 

[Orangutan]

I could be wrong but I don't remember anyone bring up Loyd's shooting percentage until an ND fan did so. I think the major bone of contention is with those who think the NPOY race is between two players. The year may have started out that way but things have changed. There are now legitimate questions as to whether Loyd is having a better year than Jefferson.

Yes, Choke brought it up, which started the "is or or isn't 47% a good percentage?" conversation. I won't belabor the point any longer. I definitely think Jefferson is the best PG in the country and I agree it isn't fair that the media takes it as unquestioned fact that Loyd is the best guard in the country (I mean, you could even make a good argument for Tiffany Mitchell over Loyd).

That said, just in the abstract, the best player on the #2 team is exactly who you would expect to be the major NPOY candidate against the best player on the #1 team.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I think the shooting percentage drop is a direct result of attracting more attention without McBride. I love Mabrey but she's no McBride.

I actually did look at the percentages for every major conference guard with a usage percentage over 30 (Jewell's is 31) and Jewell had a higher percentage than all of them. The list was something like Lia Galdeira, Kelsey Mitchell, Kelsey Plum, Courtney Williams, Brittany Hrynko, Nikki Dixon, Kaela Davis.

There are number of prominent guards that have her by a few percentage points - but none of them are scoring 20 ppg either. Maybe Jewell should shoot less - that's another discussion - as an ND fan, I wanted the ball in her hands whenever possible.

As for your last question, I'm obviously not saying that. And for what it's worth I think Stewart is obviously the best player in the country. I just don't see why people are coming at Jewell for shooting 47% while leading the ACC in scoring and leading a team full of underclassmen (albeit highly-rated ones) to the #2 ranking in the country.

Of the players who qualify for the FG% average rankings, Loyd is over on the third page of the NCAA rankings as the 101st best, with 18 players listed as guards ahead of her. I'm taking it by your "major conference" remark that you do not consider any guard outside of a P5 conference (maybe with an exception for UConn, I hope) to be worth any attention, so I guess even if they're on good teams like Govan of Western KY, Dietrick of Princeton, or decently strong teams Albany's Tate, St. John's Handford, or another AAC team like Tulsa's Clark that they are unworthy. But it still leaves a fair amount of guards that shoot much better than the NOPY candidate.

And why is 47% percent so great for Loyd when 100 qualifying players shoot better? Can't just be that most are taller than Loyd because Baylor's Nina Davis is only 1 inch taller and she still manages to shoot the ball more than 12% better. But of course, the 82 forwards and centers just make lay-ups when Loyd has to do aall that long-range shooting -- except she doesn't. 19% of Loyd's shots are from behind the arc, which is on par with UConn's Morgan Tuck with 18% long-range shots. There are guards like Allisha Gray who might get some allowance for her 44.8% shooting because she takes a huge number of 3s and is shooting 55.5% from inside the arc. But as noted, Loyd is shooting under 50% from closer in around where all those forwards and centers shoot, so no, her shooting is not very good.

As to the argument that she gets special attention on defense, sorry that's lame. All the top players get special attention with no complaints about their star status, but not all of them are on the #2 team in the nation that has a pack of other very good players, even if they're not at the level of Kayla McBride and are just a very talented Lindsey Allen as her PG and the supposed star of the future Brianna Turner and a bullish Taya Reimer to help her out. Please, don't make us weep for the perils of Jewell, and also don't push that line about 46.6% FG% and 49.6% 2-pt shooting as being very good. It's not.

 

[Orangutan]

Of the players who qualify for the FG% average rankings, Loyd is over on the third page of the NCAA rankings as the 101st best, with 18 players listed as guards ahead of her. I'm taking it by your "major conference" remark that you do not consider any guard outside of a P5 conference (maybe with an exception for UConn, I hope) to be worth any attention, so I guess even if they're on good teams like Govan of Western KY, Dietrick of Princeton, or decently strong teams Albany's Tate, St. John's Handford, or another AAC team like Tulsa's Clark that they are unworthy. But it still leaves a fair amount of guards that shoot much better than the NOPY candidate.

And why is 47% percent so great for Loyd when 100 qualifying players shoot better? Can't just be that most are taller than Loyd because Baylor's Nina Davis is only 1 inch taller and she still manages to shoot the ball more than 12% better. But of course, the 82 forwards and centers just make lay-ups when Loyd has to do aall that long-range shooting -- except she doesn't. 19% of Loyd's shots are from behind the arc, which is on par with UConn's Morgan Tuck with 18% long-range shots. There are guards like Allisha Gray who might get some allowance for her 44.8% shooting because she takes a huge number of 3s and is shooting 55.5% from inside the arc. But as noted, Loyd is shooting under 50% from closer in around where all those forwards and centers shoot, so no, her shooting is not very good.

As to the argument that she gets special attention on defense, sorry that's lame. All the top players get special attention with no complaints about their star status, but not all of them are on the #2 team in the nation that has a pack of other very good players, even if they're not at the level of Kayla McBride and are just a very talented Lindsey Allen as her PG and the supposed star of the future Brianna Turner and a bullish Taya Reimer to help her out. Please, don't make us weep for the perils of Jewell, and also don't push that line about 46.6% FG% and 49.6% 2-pt shooting as being very good. It's not.

I obviously disagree with you, but I said I won't belabor the point any more and I won't.

Oh and I expect your voluminous praises for Brianna Turner's nation-leading 66.7% field goal percentage any second now. (joking! of course)

 

[DobbsRover2]

I obviously disagree with you, but I said I won't belabor the point any more and I won't.

Oh and I expect your voluminous praises for Brianna Turner's nation-leading 66.7% field goal percentage any second now. (joking! of course)

Yup, Brianna's just got to teach her older teammate how to shoot, but that's what freshman are for, to give the older players a lesson in how to play the game.

 

[lne001]

Earlier in another thread I made a statement that Moriah was the best PG ever while at UConn, including Sue Bird! Blasphemy, I know. This opinion was based purely on general observations of both and intuition. I have gone back now and looked at their stats, specifically for their junior years. The result is that Moriah leads in every measurable category, some by significant margins. Add her superior defensive disruption capabilities and for me she is the clear choice. (Caveat - Sue's senior year was her best numbers-wise.)

Having said that, however, I believe Sue is the best women's point guard ever thus far, including professional and international play. Just not at UConn.

What am I missing?

 

[hoophuskee]

Earlier in another thread I made a statement that Moriah was the best PG ever while at UConn, including Sue Bird! Blasphemy, I know. This opinion was based purely on general observations of both and intuition. I have gone back now and looked at their stats, specifically for their junior years. The result is that Moriah leads in every measurable category, some by significant margins. Add her superior defensive disruption capabilities and for me she is the clear choice. (Caveat - Sue's senior year was her best numbers-wise.)

Having said that, however, I believe Sue is the best women's point guard ever thus far, including professional and international play. Just not at UConn.

What am I missing?

Nah-- not yet. When I'm looking at junior vs junior - the 2+ years for MoJeff and the 1+ years for Bird- I go with Bird as of this moment. I'm not looking at evolution of this moment jr year vs this moment jr year - I'm looking at each year separately and the totality of season vs season (excluding Bird's heroic vs ND in her jr year). In MoJeff's sophomore year I'm stil reminded how Stanford and Notre Dame left her wide open - and Stanford had done it again this year and I think ND did this year too- and vs ND MoJeff didn't play well at all. You even had a commentator in NCAA's making despicable comments for MoJeff to not shoot the ball in last year's NCAA's. There is a "reason" though why they left her open and those comments were made.

Conversely you would never see Tennessee or any other opponent deliberately leave Bird open. And Bird was "big-time" in big games. Moriah was unreal vs USC and good in quite a few others but also god-awful in the loss to Stanford. Bird may have had bad games too- but like that vs "threatening teams" of similar stature like ND, Stanford and even Duke? In Bird's jr year? Overall - nah - I can't recall.

I think when MJ is at her best - she looks unreal - and thus better. But show me you can be outstanding in NCAA's like the way Bird was in final four as a soph vs Penn State. Bird's sophomore year heroics vs Tenn in reg season is similar to MoJeff's heroics vs USC. I don't recall real bad games form Bird vs eleitle teams leading up to this point of jr vs jr. But let's see MoJeff being incredible in some E8 or FF or Finals. I definitely agree her ceiling she can surpass Bird. But it starts now.

This UCONN team going forward should not lose this year. In an E8 or FF or finals game - a game in which we are threatened in some manner, in order for her to surpass Bird she needs to play heroically at least as of now through the Tourney (not every game). THAT's what it takes to surpass an all-time great. WE have the best team unlike Bird's jr year when we lost our two a/a's.