Moriah is NOT one of the Four Finalist for Dawn Staley Award | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Moriah is NOT one of the Four Finalist for Dawn Staley Award

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In addition to Moriah being shortchanged, I believe Courtney Willaims of USF has been shortchanged as well. I'm not the first to point this out but if you exchanged Courtney Williams from USF and Jewel Loyd of ND between the two teams, the style of play would be the same and the results of the two teams would be the same. I'm not convinced that Loyd has any advantage over Williams other than playing for a team in a bigger spotlight.
 

Fightin Choke

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Loyd lovers have decided that the NC is meaningless. Next she'll win the NPOY award hereby making both these awards worthless and meaningless.
Honestly, I have no idea how you came up with that.
 

Fightin Choke

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Jewell would be the 8th best shooter on UConn.
And she has the 7th best percentage on Notre Dame. It's difficult to shoot a high percentage when someone is the focal point of the defense. She also takes lots of shots when the shot clock is running down to avoid a turnover. She also gets the toughest perimeter assignment on defense, often face-guarding the other team's best guard.
 

Fightin Choke

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No requirement on a UCONN site to like any player on ND. It is a fan site, specifically, a UCONN fan site. Loyd is a nice player in a star system that shines a lot of light on her just like it did on Skylar. UCONN doesn't use that approach often to the detriment of players who would be the "It" player anywhere else. Even the "It" on you prefers sharing the light with everyone.
No there certainly isn't a requirement for anyone to like Jewell, nor did I imply that you should. I didn't even suggest you respect her. All I did was correct a misconception on the Boneyard about Jewell taking an inordinate amount of shots. I do not believe that HoopsFan21 looked up Jewell's stats and deliberately chose to misrepresent them. Rather, I believe that he just figured that Jewell shot a whole lot more than anyone on UConn did because of the other posts he had read. So I was trying to correct that misconception and provide some perspective by including Maya's numbers.
 

Fightin Choke

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So does MoJett and she far exceeds Loyd in most categories.
Jefferson is an outstanding talent and she plays very hard and very well. She is a tremendous handful on either end of the floor. But the opposing team's defense probably gives less attention to Moriah than to Loyd simply because of all the other offensive weapons that UConn possesses. You really have to choose your poison when you try to defend UConn. Honestly, which player can you cheat off of?
 

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One last statistic, playing time, which further separates and elevates Moriah from all the rest:

Moriah... 27.7 mpg
K Mitchell... 37.3 mpg
T Mitchell... 29.4 mpg
J Loyd.... 31.4 mpg
Hrynko... 29.3 mpg

When you factor in that Moriah played significantly fewer minutes than all the others, her numbers stand out even more. I can imagine what they might have been had Mo played Kelsey Mitchell type minutes (or played for a coach who hypes and promotes her players non-stop). It would have made the Dawn Staley Award Numbskull Committee's omission of Moriah even more obscene and ill-informed, if that's possible.

Assuming the committee is not composed of morons who have never seen a WCBB game (and that seems to be a stretch), then the only reasonable conclusion I see for keeping Moriah off is political- the UConn-haters are alive and well...and soon to be gnashing their pathetic, jealous teeth again in a few weeks.

If I were Staley, I'd kinda be ashamed to have my name on an award so blatantly given to the wrong person.
How much of a hassle is it for one of the stat wizards on here to do a per 40 minutes comparison?
 

DobbsRover2

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How much of a hassle is it for one of the stat wizards on here to do a per 40 minutes comparison?
What difference would it make? Everyone (at least the fans of all the other teams) knows that the stats of UConn players don't matter because they play for the Huskies so scoring and everything is easier than for the players of other teams who all face the wrath of every evil imaginable when they step on the court.

If you set each player to 30 mpg, the stats wouldn't change hugely for Jefferson, Loyd, TMitchell, and Hrynko, but KMitchell's stats would fall back a ways. Jefferson would still be hugely in the lead in steals and least turnovers, about 2 assists ahead of Hrynko as the dish leader, and up to 13 ppg but still at the bottom in scoring.
 
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Oh wow... didn't see this..... Someone is from outer space..... the gal from Ohio State and the one from DePaul over Moriah?

It is a friggin joke!!!

We will just take our NCAA championship and be happy with that with subpar guard play..... wish we had hrynko instead

this hurts the credibility of WCBB
 
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How much of a hassle is it for one of the stat wizards on here to do a per 40 minutes comparison?
I just posted on Rebkell in response to someone who claimed that Moriah shouldn't be on the 15 member Wooden watch list. It's not exactly the same group of players, but it's a similar group. This is what I found:

"Really? It's hard for me to imagine why she wouldn't.

She is surrounded by a lot of talent (every starter on her team is likely to end the season with double digit scoring and with 100+ assists on the year) so she's obviously not as large a part of the offense as she would be otherwise. I don't know that it's fair to judge her for not getting as many assists as Brittany Boyd or as many points as Kelsey Plum. But she is dramatically more efficient than any other guard on the list.

There are seven guards on the list, Jefferson, Logic, the Mitchells, Boyd, Plum, and Loyd.

Jefferson is 5th in points per 40 at 17.4 (behind Mitchell, Mitchell, Plum, and Loyd), 3rd in assists per 40 at 7 (behind Logic and Boyd), and 1st in steals per 40 at 3.85. Those aren't exactly the numbers of someone who doesn't belong in the group, and we haven't gotten to efficiency stats yet.

Jefferson is 1st in shooting percentage (and, at 58% is 8 points higher than the next best on the list), 1st in 3PT percentage (50% on 88 attempts, 7 points higher than the next best), and 1st in A/TO (3.05, about 50% better than the next best).

Jefferson is also one of the best defenders at her position in the country. There's not a lot in a box score to back that up, but she's far and away the go-to perimeter defender for her team which is first in the nation in points allowed and field goal percentage defense.

So, what exactly is the argument for keeping her off?"
 
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Mitchell and Loyd are super studs give them their due and credit.... granted.... but after that what about our Moriah??!!!

Posting again to salute this amazing athlete
 
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And she has the 7th best percentage on Notre Dame. It's difficult to shoot a high percentage when someone is the focal point of the defense. She also takes lots of shots when the shot clock is running down to avoid a turnover. She also gets the toughest perimeter assignment on defense, often face-guarding the other team's best guard.
Why tell me this? You were the one touting her shooting. Loyd shoots 47% from the field; Jefferson shoots 58%. Loyd is an excellent player; Jefferson is better.
 
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Why tell me this? You were the one touting her shooting. Loyd shoots 47% from the field; Jefferson shoots 58%. Loyd is an excellent player; Jefferson is better.
I disagree. There are two truly dominant players in WCBB right now, and Loyd is one of them. 47% is a very good shooting percentage for a player that is taking about 20 shots per 40 minutes (for comparison, Jefferson is taking about 12). And let's be clear, Loyd shouldering the scoring load is not the same as her selfishly jacking up shots. She's doing what her team needs.

I think that I have a higher opinion of Jefferson than most; I think she's unequivocally one of the top ten players in the country and the top point guard in the the country; I argued heavily that she should be an AA last year, and I think she's the best point guard not named Sue Bird to play for UConn. But she's not a NPOY candidate yet, and Loyd (despite having, IMHO, a less compelling claim than Stewart) is.
 

Wbbfan1

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I started this thread and my issue is not that Loyd is a Finalist, my issue is that Moriah is Not a Finalist when she definitely should be.
 
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I disagree. There are two truly dominant players in WCBB right now, and Loyd is one of them. 47% is a very good shooting percentage for a player that is taking about 20 shots per 40 minutes (for comparison, Jefferson is taking about 12). And let's be clear, Loyd shouldering the scoring load is not the same as her selfishly jacking up shots. She's doing what her team needs.

I think that I have a higher opinion of Jefferson than most; I think she's unequivocally one of the top ten players in the country and the top point guard in the the country; I argued heavily that she should be an AA last year, and I think she's the best point guard not named Sue Bird to play for UConn. But she's not a NPOY candidate yet, and Loyd (despite having, IMHO, a less compelling claim than Stewart) is.
So you're saying the more one performs an activity the worse they should be at it?. My common sense tells me just the opposite should be true.

I've said nothing about Loyd jacking up shots, selfishly or otherwise. That she remains acclaimed as one of two dominant players I attribute to the same sort of thinking that had South Carolina leading in the polls long after it became obvious UConn would likely beat them in February. Stewart was last year's player of the year. Loyd was freshman of the year over Stewart. The meme that the player of the year would come down to those two was set early on. The turd in that punch bowl is Jefferson's play over the last 4-6 weeks. I can't think of anyone else who's produced as many jaw-dropping, WOW! moments as she. Loyd is no longer clearly the best guard and just because she was proclaimed so in Nov/Dec isn't reason enough to continue what is now a charade.
 

DobbsRover2

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I disagree. There are two truly dominant players in WCBB right now, and Loyd is one of them. 47% is a very good shooting percentage for a player that is taking about 20 shots per 40 minutes (for comparison, Jefferson is taking about 12). And let's be clear, Loyd shouldering the scoring load is not the same as her selfishly jacking up shots. She's doing what her team needs.

I think that I have a higher opinion of Jefferson than most; I think she's unequivocally one of the top ten players in the country and the top point guard in the the country; I argued heavily that she should be an AA last year, and I think she's the best point guard not named Sue Bird to play for UConn. But she's not a NPOY candidate yet, and Loyd (despite having, IMHO, a less compelling claim than Stewart) is.
I just don't get all the excuses that are made for non-UConn players. For Choke, sure, he needs to obscure all of the inconvenient stuff for Loyd to push her cause as any good stat-savvy Irish fan should do, but I just don't get why UConn fans buy into the cheap 5-and-dime-store logic.

Sure, we know that UConn players do well together and buy into a system that makes them pass the ball to each other and take good shots, but why should they be penalized in the player evaluation exercises for working hard to excel in this system? Couple of questions:

Why is 47% considered a "very good shooting percentage"??? Just because she takes "a lot of shots?" First, Loyd doesn't take a lot of shots. As Choke pointed out, 15 a game is not a lot when compared to many other players, many of whom are guards. Second, it is not a very good shooting percentage, simply okay, and for a player who is supposed to be one of the top 3 in the nation, okay is not okay. Even a guard like TMitchell shoots way, better. And if you are a good shooter, shooting the ball more shouldn't be a bad thing anyway. Yes, you can be like Choke and cobble together a lot of somewhat lame excuses and "relative factors" as to why 47% is a "very good shooting percentage," but it in the end a wise fan will look behind the smoke and mirrors used to push an awards campaign.

Would we have called it "great" or "very good" if one of UConn's superstars like Maya Moore, Shea Ralph, Svetlana Abrosimova or Nykesha Sales shot 47%? No, of course not. They all shot at least 50% and usually much higher even with 3s being a healthy proportion of their shots. One of if not the greatest basketball players ever -- named Diana Taurasi -- did shoot 47% for her career, but there's a giant difference from Loyd. More than half of DT's shots were from behind the arc (at a 39.2% average), and her shots from inside the arc went down at a 55% rate. Loyd is shooting less than 1/5 of her shots from the arc, so she's at 46.6% overall and 49.6% from inside the arc. That just doesn't speak to me of greatness. Okayness, maybe even goodness, but not greatness.

But isn't poor Jewell the focal point of her team, the one who has to constantly throw up shots as the clock expires, and the target of the other team's vise-like defensive grip? This is the most cracked up part of the crock. Suddenly Notre Dame has gone from being the #2 team in the nation with a well-balanced squad filled with AA-types like Turner-Allen-Reimer-Westbeld who just won the regular season and tournament titles in WCBB's toughest conference, to a one-player team that constantly stunbles around so badly on offense that poor valiant Jewell has to always be throwing up desperation heaves as time winds down.

Give me a frickin' break. Doesn't very top player on a team get a lot of attention? Stewie is getting tackled by middle linebackers and cornerbacks out there, and it's accepted that she will have to pass the ball to a teammate some times, or much of the time. I haven't heard such hogwash since the Duke fans came over here to claim Alana Beard should win the NPOY awards because of her perfection of the "dive into a defender and chuck" strategy allowed her to establish permanent residency on the FT line. And yes there is a guard on the Irish that scores more than a quarter of her points from the line, but of course you have to say she's taking what the refs give her.

I can't wait for the next pack of excuses to be delivered. Maybe"she was partying too hard on St. Patty's day" or "one of her teammates went into a funk and it made the team go all kablooey."
 
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DobbsRover2

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I started this thread and my issue is not that Loyd is a Finalist, my issue is that Moriah is Not a Finalist when she definitely should be.
Join the club. We've all started threads that went 50 strange directions before the mods decided that it had gone long enough and maybe a mercy killing was in order. Fact is, there really isn't much more to say on your original statement than what you said in your original statement. The absence of MoJeff from the final four list is egregious and proves that a lot of the people who get involved with WCBB are often at a very low intelligence level. That is a painful fact, but anyone who has followed WCBB through the years has come to accept this reality. Complaining about it gets you nothing except a feeling of extra satisfaction when you are celebrating another NC in April.
 
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Dobbs last point is something I've been thinking about. In defense of Loyd, the way the Irish fans tell it, the team is Loyd and the 4 dwarfs that are lucky to even know which way to run, let alone make a basket. Don't Geno and Muffet recruit a lot of the same kids?
 

DobbsRover2

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Dobbs last point is something I've been thinking about. In defense of Loyd, the way the Irish fans tell it, the team is Loyd and the 4 dwarfs that are lucky to even know which way to run, let alone make a basket. Don't Geno and Muffet recruit a lot of the same kids?
To the Irish fans discussing their team's post season chances, they have a team of renowned giants who are now operating smoothly since Reimer's full return and Turner's integration into the lineup in a big way. The only time that any of the Irish becomes a dwarf is when the Iris-h-i-tes need to think of a reason that Loyd is shooting 47%, and it all has to do with all those last second heaves and the fact that she is drawing four defenders and ten dementors whenever she touches the ball.
 

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To the Irish fans discussing their team's post season chances, they have a team of renowned giants who are now operating smoothly since Reimer's full return and Turner's integration into the lineup in a big way. The only time that any of the Irish becomes a dwarf is when the Iris-h-i-tes need to think of a reason that Loyd is shooting 47%, and it all has to do with all those last second heaves and the fact that she is drawing four defenders and ten dementors whenever she touches the ball.

I know Jefferson is shooting 58% but that's an insane number for a guard (and one that underscores how bad of an omission from this list she is).

Just looking at last year's AAs: Jewell shot 52%, Mitchell shot 49%, Hartley shot 47%, McBride shot 47%, and Sims shot 45%. 47% is right in line with what one would expect from an All-American shooting guard.
 
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