More hockey realignment?

[Stinger92860]

Because the other B1G hockey schools don't want UConn in right now. There's no incentive to add them as an associate hockey-only member. If you're the B1G and you're looking to add an eastern hockey-only member, why would you look at UConn first right now.

Also mentioned in the Star Tribune article above is that three other B1G schools are quietly investigating adding hockey. From other sources, one is Northwestern, one is presumably Iowa (plans for a 7K arena a mile from campus supposedly for mixed- use in addition to college hockey are drawn up), and speculation has the third as Nebraska.

Which B10 schools don't want us. Please include links with quotes.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Which B10 schools don't want us. Please include links with quotes.

Which ones do? This is a common sense argument I'm making. If you're the B1G hockey schools, primarily made up of historical programs with 23 combined national championships, and you're looking to add an eastern hockey-only school (assuming there is no plan for a full invite later, as I noted above) why in the world would you pass up the likes of BU, BC, UNH, heck even Maine for an upstart program in UConn that, while it has a lot of potential to be good, has not proven to be consistently successful against the top competition? The B1G already watered itself down with a brand new PSU program and in this scenario would be adding a similar one in ASU. Now suddenly there would be 3/8 of the conference made up of what amounts to new programs - because basically UConn started from scratch when it hired Cav. Ask any B1G coach who they'd want to add as a hockey-only member from the east, zero will say UConn. I'll bet you my diploma that all of them will give one or both of two schools.

Now, if we're talking about taking UConn in all sports, or as some type of established plan to start with hockey and add the rest in a couple of years, it's a completely different scenario as this now includes the strengths of UConn's overall athletic profile. In this scenario, the hockey coaches have far less pull over who gets the invite and UConn's chances would go up significantly.

 

[Stinger92860]

Which ones do? This is a common sense argument I'm making. If you're the B1G hockey schools, primarily made up of historical programs with 23 combined national championships, and you're looking to add an eastern hockey-only school (assuming there is no plan for a full invite later, as I noted above) why in the world would you pass up the likes of BU, BC, UNH, heck even Maine for an upstart program in UConn that, while it has a lot of potential to be good, has not proven to be consistently successful against the top competition? The B1G already watered itself down with a brand new PSU program and in this scenario would be adding a similar one in ASU. Now suddenly there would be 3/8 of the conference made up of what amounts to new programs - because basically UConn started from scratch when it hired Cav. Ask any B1G coach who they'd want to add as a hockey-only member from the east, zero will say UConn. I'll bet you my diploma that all of them will give one or both of two schools.

Now, if we're talking about taking UConn in all sports, or as some type of established plan to start with hockey and add the rest in a couple of years, it's a completely different scenario as this now includes the strengths of UConn's overall athletic profile. In this scenario, the hockey coaches have far less pull over who gets the invite and UConn's chances would go up significantly.

So this is your opinion and that's fine. You make valid points but you have no facts to back up your point of view. When was the last time you or I spoke to a B10 hockey coach? At the end of the day, it would not be their decision anyway.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

So this is your opinion and that's fine. You make valid points but you have no facts to back up your point of view. When was the last time you or I spoke to a B10 hockey coach? At the end of the day, it would not be their decision anyway.

Exactly, this is why I called it a common sense argument, one that I've come up with from following the sport closely for a long time. Of course no one has talked to a B1G coach or program about this, because the topic has never come up. I can tell you, straight from the mouth of a Hockey East coach, who the schools were when the NCHC formed and they approached eastern schools about joining. It was not UConn. This is the most congruent example that exists to the one we're discussing, UConn admitted as hockey-only #8 w/ no all-sports invite.

If this were a hockey-only invite and it affected no other sports, the hockey coaches of the six schools would have major input on the decision, and Lucia and Berenson both have major pull at their institutions, as do Eaves and Anastos to a lesser extent. Anastos is a former conference commissioner himself, so his input would be heavily valued. They would not cast the formal vote, but in a one-sport decision, they would have a lot of pull. If the AAC were to decide on adding a basketball-only school, don't you think Kevin Ollie would be the one to essentially tell Susan who to vote yes/no for?

Yes, these are my points of view and I haven't spoken to a B1G coach or administrator. But then again, people who believe the earth is round also haven't been into space to see it with their own two eyes. It's based on a preponderance of evidence. In this case, all evidence supports my arguments.

It'd be great to see UConn competing in the B1G, in all sports of course, and certainly the hockey program is a on track right now where should that opportunity come up, hockey would not at all be an obstacle to admittance, but instead a plus. Cav is a guy who can lead a program in a top conference, and if the B1G were considering UConn as a full member, they would have to view the hockey program as being a competitor on day one, one that would not regularly sink the RPI (the most important component of NCAA tournament admission) of the other schools, and would provide solid TV opportunities for the BTN. That said, in a hockey-only scenario, there are other eastern programs who, on day one, would be favorites to regularly not just compete, but win the conference, boost the RPI of other programs, and make for solid TV matchups.

 

[huskypantz]

Which ones do? This is a common sense argument I'm making. If you're the B1G hockey schools, primarily made up of historical programs with 23 combined national championships, and you're looking to add an eastern hockey-only school (assuming there is no plan for a full invite later, as I noted above) why in the world would you pass up the likes of BU, BC, UNH, heck even Maine for an upstart program in UConn that, while it has a lot of potential to be good, has not proven to be consistently successful against the top competition? The B1G already watered itself down with a brand new PSU program and in this scenario would be adding a similar one in ASU. Now suddenly there would be 3/8 of the conference made up of what amounts to new programs - because basically UConn started from scratch when it hired Cav. Ask any B1G coach who they'd want to add as a hockey-only member from the east, zero will say UConn. I'll bet you my diploma that all of them will give one or both of two schools.

Now, if we're talking about taking UConn in all sports, or as some type of established plan to start with hockey and add the rest in a couple of years, it's a completely different scenario as this now includes the strengths of UConn's overall athletic profile. In this scenario, the hockey coaches have far less pull over who gets the invite and UConn's chances would go up significantly.

But ASU fits any criteria???? The B1G brought in Rutgers, for cripes sake. They look past records and historical performance.

 

[Nostical]

• Greg Flugaur @flugempire • Mar 12
...I’ve already discussed in the last year how UCONN has improved themselves with Big Ten metrics based upon increasing dedication to big research but I’ve never given much credit to the UCONN hockey program to increasing its chances to receive a future full Big Ten invite. I may have been dead... ..wrong. The very fact that it's been confirmed ASU & Big Ten is talking makes it all very viable UCONN can become school #8 in B1G hockey ...an even number of teams in a college hockey conf. Follow this logic...it now doesn't have to be AAU. ASU won't be...in the Big Ten hockey forever...that is not their goal...they want to build PAC hockey.. I think #8 is all about...bringing in a new East Coast market. That brings us to Boston College or Boston U or UCONN. Remember....FOX would be the great pusher so BC is out. Boston U? Would never leave BC. So if you follow my twisted logic an Arizona St to the Big Ten for Hockey could very well lead to UCONN in hockey. In conclusion: Arizona St in Big Ten hockey in 2 years will bring in a need for a #8. Delany is making friends in the East. Just saying. Calling Mrs. Herbst....Calling Mrs. Herbst Please answer the telephone. This scenario was brought to you by an in-place source.

 

[B1Gtymer]

I am ok with ASU in the B1G for hockey on a short term basis. It makes sense given the big ten's friendly history with the Pac. Long term, my hope for B1G hockey is this, after the addition of ASU, bring in UConn and another non hockey playing school for all sports, this brings the B1G up to 8 schools, a more feasible number long term and allows time for other Pac schools to add hockey. At the same time I want two current B1G schools to add hockey, my choices: Rutgers and Illinois. I see hockey doing well at both schools. Illinois has great club team support much like Penn State had before they jumped. Rutgers wants to be Penn State and will try to emulate them, plus I see their basketball facility situation as a plus because it gives them an opportunity to plan for hockey when building a new arena. Finally, once ASU had a permanent home to move back to, bring in an affiliate hockey member since the conference would be at 16 for all sports, the highest I see them going. This affiliate member would bring in a HUGE national hockey following much like Nebraska in football and they have huge rivals with two B1G hockey schools. North Dakota, who by this time would have its new nickname in place and rebuilding it's brand.

 

[frankthetank]

A few things:

(1) If you're a betting person, Nebraska is next in line to add hockey. Their new basketball arena has icemaking capabilities and they are finishing a new separate state-of-the-art ice rink that can be used as a practice facility. So, they have the D1-level facilities IN PLACE with one of the most well-funded athletic departments in the country.

(2) If Nebraska is Big Ten school #7 in the near future, that makes Arizona State into an extremely intriguing hockey school #8. Jim Delany has stated before that there are actually more Big Ten alums that live in the Phoenix market than Pac-12 alums, and if you watch Cactus League games or any time a Midwestern team plays the Diamondbacks, Suns or Coyotes, you can believe it. Phoenix is to Chicago snowbirds as Miami is to NYC snowbirds. This is an easy way for the Big Ten to service one of the largest (if not the single largest) home to Big Ten alums outside of the Big Ten region itself.

 

[Kolumbo]

Maybe the B1G's double secret plan is to add Colorado or Denver and then AZ State, satisfying the coveted Contiguous requirement. The B1G would suddenly cover all 4 time zones, at least during daylight savings time.

 

[upstater]

Arizona State would be insane to do this.

Notre Dame is belching in Hockey East right now--can't imagine how ASU would feel.

 

[CTGoonie]

"This is an easy way for the Big Ten to service one of the largest (if not the single largest) home to Big Ten alums outside of the Big Ten region itself."

Service with what? Hockey games? Those alums would go see basketball and football games at ASU, not hockey. Arizona won't add the Big Ten network to basic cable because ASU plays 1 sport.

 

[dayooper]

"This is an easy way for the Big Ten to service one of the largest (if not the single largest) home to Big Ten alums outside of the Big Ten region itself."

Service with what? Hockey games? Those alums would go see basketball and football games at ASU, not hockey. Arizona won't add the Big Ten network to basic cable because ASU plays 1 sport.

Not sure if you understand the fervor in which most Big10 alumni back their schools. Michigan, MSU, Wisconsin, and Minnesota all love their hockey teams and would absolutely fill any arena they would play in with alumni. Bringing ASU in would service those alumni in Arizona by allowing them to see a live sport every year (and a reason to get back together).

It would help the BTN as they would have programming well into Friday night. A game starting at 5:00 PM Eastern, 8:30 Eastern, and 11:00 Eastern (9:00 Mountain time) would make them attractive to advertisers. The more live programming you have, the more money you make. 8.5 hours on a Friday and/or Saturday night would be great.

 

[frankthetank]

Arizona State would be insane to do this.

Notre Dame is belching in Hockey East right now--can't imagine how ASU would feel.

Every hockey conference is a bad geographic fit on paper for ASU. The NCHC has 2 Colorado schools, but otherwise goes up into Michigan and Ohio just like the Big Ten (with a lot less high profile schools). The WCHA, despite having "Western" in its name, is even worse simply because of the presence of the Alaska schools. So, there is no geographic fit for ASU. As a result, what's better to build their hockey program: bringing in big name Big Ten schools with huge and passionate alumni bases in the Phoenix market or playing lower profile schools that aren't any more geographically-friendly?

If the Big Ten wants ASU (and I think they do seeing that they actually got the B1G associate commissioner in charge of hockey to speak on the record about ASU's attractiveness), then ASU is almost certainly going to choose the Big Ten.

 

[CTGoonie]

Every hockey conference is a bad geographic fit on paper for ASU. The NCHC has 2 Colorado schools, but otherwise goes up into Michigan and Ohio just like the Big Ten (with a lot less high profile schools). The WCHA, despite having "Western" in its name, is even worse simply because of the presence of the Alaska schools. So, there is no geographic fit for ASU. As a result, what's better to build their hockey program: bringing in big name Big Ten schools with huge and passionate alumni bases in the Phoenix market or playing lower profile schools that aren't any more geographically-friendly?

If the Big Ten wants ASU (and I think they do seeing that they actually got the B1G associate commissioner in charge of hockey to speak on the record about ASU's attractiveness), then ASU is almost certainly going to choose the Big Ten.

Then who is the 8th team ready by 2017? No way an existing school like Nebraska can get up and running that fast. A 7-team league doesn't work.

 

[frankthetank]

Not sure if you understand the fervor in which most Big10 alumni back their schools. Michigan, MSU, Wisconsin, and Minnesota all love their hockey teams and would absolutely fill any arena they would play in with alumni. Bringing ASU in would service those alumni in Arizona by allowing them to see a live sport every year (and a reason to get back together).

It would help the BTN as they would have programming well into Friday night. A game starting at 5:00 PM Eastern, 8:30 Eastern, and 11:00 Eastern (9:00 Mountain time) would make them attractive to advertisers. The more live programming you have, the more money you make. 8.5 hours on a Friday and/or Saturday night would be great.

Exactly. This isn't just about the BTN. I don't think ASU hockey means much for the BTN getting basic carriage in the Phoenix market. However, it's all about establishing the Big Ten's overall presence there just as it does with its top bowl tie-ins (see its concentration of bowls in California and Florida).

Plus, the Big Ten usually thinks a bit broader beyond the immediate needs. I doubt any deal with ASU would just be solely about playing hockey. Maybe ASU starts playing 1 or 2 non-conference football games against B1G schools annually, 2 or 3 non-conference basketball games, a bunch of baseball games (which is where the Big Ten would actually gain quite a bit from a relationship with ASU), etc. It's not a huge change to the scheduling practices of either ASU or the B1G, yet it solidifies the connection in broader terms that goes beyond hockey.

 

[frankthetank]

Then who is the 8th team ready by 2017? No way an existing school like Nebraska can get up and running that fast. A 7-team league doesn't work.

Unlikely by 2017, but I'd disagree that a 7-team league doesn't work at least in the interim. It's not optimal, but if the B1G has to deal with it for a year or two, then they'll live with it.

Believe me - Nebraska will eventually get there. I wish it were my Illini instead, but we simply don't have the facilities at all right now.

 

[dayooper]

Then who is the 8th team ready by 2017? No way an existing school like Nebraska can get up and running that fast. A 7-team league doesn't work.

Eh, there are so many rivals that the big four (Michigan, MSU, Wisconsin, and Minnesota) lost going to the Big10 conference that a bye week would just be an opportunity to play some of them in January and February. They could even play some of those state schools they used to.

The only way I could see an eighth team bein brought in with ASU (I believe ASU to The Big10 Hockey is as big of a lock as we can get in CR) is a power school in an area that the Big10 wants to penetrate. A BU, BC, Cornell, ect. Since I think those won't happen now, it's seven.

Doesn't mean that I think UConn is a poor choice or not in consideration, it's not just needed at this time.

 

[upstater]

Exactly. This isn't just about the BTN. I don't think ASU hockey means much for the BTN getting basic carriage in the Phoenix market. However, it's all about establishing the Big Ten's overall presence there just as it does with its top bowl tie-ins (see its concentration of bowls in California and Florida).

Plus, the Big Ten usually thinks a bit broader beyond the immediate needs. I doubt any deal with ASU would just be solely about playing hockey. Maybe ASU starts playing 1 or 2 non-conference football games against B1G schools annually, 2 or 3 non-conference basketball games, a bunch of baseball games (which is where the Big Ten would actually gain quite a bit from a relationship with ASU), etc. It's not a huge change to the scheduling practices of either ASU or the B1G, yet it solidifies the connection in broader terms that goes beyond hockey.

Losing a lot of hockey games and traveling across the country isn't going to help build their program either.

This is a very rough road, a huge money loser too, and don't forget, Arizona is the nation's biggest loser when it comes to Higher Education cuts. A whopping 40%+ cut the last few years. What are the optics here after Arizona students saw a gargantuan rise in costs?

 

[frankthetank]

Losing a lot of hockey games and traveling across the country isn't going to help build their program either.

This is a very rough road, a huge money loser too, and don't forget, Arizona is the nation's biggest loser when it comes to Higher Education cuts. A whopping 40%+ cut the last few years. What are the optics here after Arizona students saw a gargantuan rise in costs?

Maybe, but this isn't a hypothetical, though. ASU is going to have a hockey team, which means they'll need to join a conference and we can assume that it won't be an eastern-based league like the Hockey East. The WCHA is a league that literally stretches from Alaska to Alabama. The NCHC stretches from Colorado to Ohio, so it might be a little more geographically friendly for ASU when looking at a map as the crow flies, but in practicality, it's going to be just as much or more travel as the Big Ten (particularly when dealing with getting to and from the smaller towns in the NCHC). Plus, the NCHC is an excellent hockey league on-the-ice, so it's not as if though this is a step down in competition from the Big Ten at all, but they almost certainly won't draw the same attendance or garner the same TV coverage. In all seriousness, if you're the ASU AD and you get offers from those 3 leagues, are you turning down the Big Ten here? That seems to be the best available option for ASU. Whether the Big Ten extends that offer in the first place is likely more of the issue.

 

[Ldandy]

Maybe, but this isn't a hypothetical, though. ASU is going to have a hockey team, which means they'll need to join a conference and we can assume that it won't be an eastern-based league like the Hockey East. The WCHA is a league that literally stretches from Alaska to Alabama. The NCHC stretches from Colorado to Ohio, so it might be a little more geographically friendly for ASU when looking at a map as the crow flies, but in practicality, it's going to be just as much or more travel as the Big Ten (particularly when dealing with getting to and from the smaller towns in the NCHC). Plus, the NCHC is an excellent hockey league on-the-ice, so it's not as if though this is a step down in competition from the Big Ten at all, but they almost certainly won't draw the same attendance or garner the same TV coverage. In all seriousness, if you're the ASU AD and you get offers from those 3 leagues, are you turning down the Big Ten here? That seems to be the best available option for ASU. Whether the Big Ten extends that offer in the first place is likely more of the issue.

Not to mention that the B1G has a viable broadcast medium to grow their brand and the sport in general within the state of Arizona and throughout the southwest. I'm not sure what kind of deals if any The NCHC or WCHA has outside of their individual teams' markets. Add to the fact the travel expense would be mitigated far more easily by the revenue generated by an expanded B1G. IIRC schools playing hockey received an additional 2 mil(?), perhaps that goes up to 2.5 or 3 each for additional games being broadcast on the network.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

The B1G doesn't need an 8th if they add ASU. 7 teams - round robin 4 games against each opponent, 24 conference games, right where every league aims. Eight teams would mean either going to 4x7 for 28, or play an unbalanced 3x7 for 21 - neither of which is a good option, especially with the lengthy travel.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Question, which team will draw better, the ASU hockey team or the Phoenix Coyotes?

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Question, which team will draw better, the ASU hockey team or the Phoenix Coyotes?

honestly, a very legitimate question. they must be banking on the ASU brand name drawing the crowds, because the sport has not been a success in Phoenix.

 

[kingdobbs]

Although to be fair, ASU drawing 5-6K is a bigger success than the Coyotes drawing twice that much.

 

[Kolumbo]

Maybe this is because we are essentially cooped up inside for threes months during the winter, but if I lived in AZ, I'd spend as much leisure time outside as possible, not going to hockey games. Especially when the summers are unbearably hot.
I am sure the B1G fans in Phoenix would love to see their schools play, but beating up on a brand new ASU program? Doesn't seem all that exciting.