More ACC issues...now Virginia

[HoopsFan21]

Why is this an ACC thread? I thought UVA was in the B1G. Some guy on twitter said it was a done deal 24 months ago.

Yeah, them and UNC. Can you imagine the B1G adding RapeU and a school that may not even have an accreditation for much longer? At this rate, UConn's going to look pretty attractive with the way the schools are falling like dominoes to scandal.

 

[pj]

Yeah, them and UNC. Can you imagine the B1G adding RapeU and a school that may not even have an accreditation for much longer? At this rate, UConn's going to look pretty attractive with the way the schools are falling like dominoes to scandal.

I fail to see how UVa and UNC becoming less attractive makes UConn more attractive.

Remember, we need a partner.

 

[SubbaBub]

I fail to see how UVa and UNC becoming less attractive makes UConn more attractive.

Remember, we need a partner.

For all the talk of culture surrounding the APR garbage. Both the UNC and UVA scandals go directly to the values of the university. Compare it to PSU if you'd like, but these are much worse because they counterdict the very mission of the university. If the PSU 3 need to go to jail, and I think they probably should, then these schools are knowingly committing fraud.

 

[Seaa Blue]

For all the talk of culture surrounding the APR garbage. Both the UNC and UVA scandals go directly to the values of the university. Compare it to PSU if you'd like, but these are much worse because they counterdict the very mission of the university. If the PSU 3 need to go to jail, and I think they probably should, then these schools are knowingly committing fraud.

I've had similar thoughts bouncing around my head. I know how unpopular it is to suggest that we should lighten up on PSU, but what you say rings true to me. Being around my elderly relatives, I find it increasingly believable that Paterno just didn't get it.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I fail to see how UVa and UNC becoming less attractive makes UConn more attractive.

Remember, we need a partner.

UConn has a great athletic department, rising academic and research rankings, and lacks what all of these big schools seem to have today: headline grabbing scandals. When UConn has the media spotlight it's because they've won another championship. How the P5 can sit back and let very ripe low hanging fruit like that dangle from the tree is beyond me. I guess I just don't fully understand how all the realignment stuff works, but UConn and all of its positive attributes seems like it would be a no-brainer add. I'm sure a partner can be found to go along with UConn when the time comes, but I'll worry about that when I'm certain we're slated as one of the new additions. Right now UConn has to just get its foot in the door.

 

[pj]

The APR stuff is ancient history and anyway I'm sure most academics knew it was a sham, a propaganda tool, and UConn a scapegoat to make it look like the fig leaf was a tiger. Regardless, realignment is about money. If UConn is perceived as bringing money to their schools, college presidents will vote it in, regardless of APR.

 

[ThetaZoo]

The APR stuff is ancient history and anyway I'm sure most academics knew it was a sham, a propaganda tool, and UConn a scapegoat to make it look like the fig leaf was a tiger. Regardless, realignment is about money. If UConn is perceived as bringing money to their schools, college presidents will vote it in, regardless of APR.

I'm not sure if BC, Syracuse and a maybe a few others would vote UConn in even if it meant more $ for them. These institutions are fearful of UConn's potential dominance on the field.

 

[Sea Goat]

I'm not sure if BC, Syracuse and a maybe a few others would vote UConn in even if it meant more $ for them. These institutions are fearful of UConn's potential dominance on the field.

Furthermore, Syracuse is fearful of our dominance in the classroom. It is already a tough sell for Syracuse because it lags behind UConn academically and costs about $40k more per year. Being in the same conference again is the last thing they want to see.

 

[pj]

I'm not sure if BC, Syracuse and a maybe a few others would vote UConn in even if it meant more $ for them. These institutions are fearful of UConn's potential dominance on the field.

They'd have a hard time explaining to North Carolina, Virginia, Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, NC State, Wake, Duke, and Virginia Tech why they should accept less money in order to keep UConn from the ACC.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

Yeah, them and UNC. Can you imagine the B1G adding RapeU and a school that may not even have an accreditation for much longer? At this rate, UConn's going to look pretty attractive with the way the schools are falling like dominoes to scandal.

No they won't, just ask ESPN. The sports baron will advocate, defend, enable, and telecast, telecast, telecast these ACC schools while continuing to ignore UConn.

 

[Kolumbo]

I fail to see how UVa and UNC becoming less attractive makes UConn more attractive.

Remember, we need a partner.

They are becoming our stootfish, as Coakley would say.

 

[Yawkey Way]

They'd have a hard time explaining to North Carolina, Virginia, Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, NC State, Wake, Duke, and Virginia Tech why they should accept less money in order to keep UConn from the ACC.

Exactly. If the ACC ( or any other P5 Conference for that matter ) wants Uconn in their league, BC and/ or Syracuse couldn't stop that. To think otherwise, is to automatically ( and logically ) ascribe to BC and Syracuse enormous political powers among their fellow school peers. But its the stuff of fantasy to believe that either of these 2 schools, either alone or together, wield this enormous power within the ACC. If these leagues schools want Uconn football in their league, they will invite Uconn into their league, pure and simple... and neither BC nor Syracuse could prevent it, despite what their expressed public position on the potential invite might be.

 

[pj]

Exactly. If the ACC ( or any other P5 Conference for that matter ) wants Uconn in their league, BC and/ or Syracuse couldn't stop that. To think otherwise, is to automatically ( and logically ) ascribe to BC and Syracuse enormous political powers among their fellow school peers. But its the stuff of fantasy to believe that either of these 2 schools, either alone or together, wield this enormous power within the ACC. If these leagues schools want Uconn football in their league, they will invite Uconn into their league, pure and simple... and neither BC nor Syracuse could prevent it, despite what their expressed public position on the potential invite might be.

Even small powers can tip the balance when decisions are close. Louisville was an attractive athletic program, especially to a conference with no network. Were it not for BC opposition, UConn's superior academics, location on the east coast, and large state market and following would have made it the preferred choice.

 

[ThetaZoo]

Exactly. If the ACC ( or any other P5 Conference for that matter ) wants Uconn in their league, BC and/ or Syracuse couldn't stop that. To think otherwise, is to automatically ( and logically ) ascribe to BC and Syracuse enormous political powers among their fellow school peers. But its the stuff of fantasy to believe that either of these 2 schools, either alone or together, wield this enormous power within the ACC. If these leagues schools want Uconn football in their league, they will invite Uconn into their league, pure and simple... and neither BC nor Syracuse could prevent it, despite what their expressed public position on the potential invite might be.

BC and Syracuse wielded enough power at the time of their invitation to join the ACC to keep UConn out. They may not have such power now but it doesn't matter. They got what they wanted and probably an assurance that UConn would not be offered before the statute of limitations on these things runs out.

 

[billybud]

Even small powers can tip the balance when decisions are close. Louisville was an attractive athletic program, especially to a conference with no network. Were it not for BC opposition, UConn's superior academics, location on the east coast, and large state market and following would have made it the preferred choice.

I think that Louisville was a football decision...and that BC had little or nothing to do with passing over UConn. It had more to do with an attempt to beef up the football schedule.

It was a confluence of bad timing for UConn recent football and good timing for recent Louisville football.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Exactly. If the ACC ( or any other P5 Conference for that matter ) wants Uconn in their league, BC and/ or Syracuse couldn't stop that. To think otherwise, is to automatically ( and logically ) ascribe to BC and Syracuse enormous political powers among their fellow school peers. But its the stuff of fantasy to believe that either of these 2 schools, either alone or together, wield this enormous power within the ACC. If these leagues schools want Uconn football in their league, they will invite Uconn into their league, pure and simple... and neither BC nor Syracuse could prevent it, despite what their expressed public position on the potential invite might be.

BC had significant influence over the ACC in the past and it continues to do so in the structure when it comes to the subject of adding new members. Why? Because in the ACC, it takes a super-majority to add a new member. Such a structure allows a very vocal minority to influence the body as a whole. Just ask Washington DC about the Tea Party.

At the that time that ACC was looking to replace Maryland with Louisville or UConn (Cincinnati may have also been an option), there were 11 voting members of the ACC and 4 votes No would block an potential new member. Miami, FSU, and Clemson vocally opposed the addition of any additional northern, basketball centric schools after Syracuse and Pitt were added. That is 3 solid no votes. BC, instead of seeing the big, long-term picture value of adding a local rival (sorry, BC to UConn is 80 miles, BC to Syracuse is 310 miles, which is only 50 miles less than it is from Syracuse to Pitt), can only see the potential short-term 'fear' of losing it's 'territory' blocked UConn from joining as they stated using the foolish Blementhal suit (hey BC, everyone has sued everyone during conference realignment). Thus, with 4 solid No votes, UConn could not be added because while UConn may have had a solid majority (6 votes from NC and VA schools), the minority blocked the move.

Going forward, the issue is not that much different other than it now takes 5 No votes to block a new member as there are 15 ACC members now. Miami's appears to be less against UConn than before due to a change of administration; but, BC (also with a new administration) has been joined by Syracuse in the 'protect my turf' category (which is laughable as UConn and BC are both closer to NYC than Syracuse). Plus, Louisville now owes FSU and Clemson for getting them into the ACC and will follow their votes. That equals 5 Solid No votes and even if the other 8 vote for UConn, it's still a losing bid.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Even small powers can tip the balance when decisions are close. Louisville was an attractive athletic program, especially to a conference with no network. Were it not for BC opposition, UConn's superior academics, location on the east coast, and large state market and following would have made it the preferred choice.

There is little from the ACC Commish Office that I've read as to the ACC school's discussion of the inclusion of Uconn to the ACC. I have no idea if Uconn was close to an invite or far from an invite... or something in the middle ( We know of BC's position on this, of course ). There has been speculation from sportwriters, TV commentators, etc and so forth. But as far as we know, nobody really knows what the school presidents are thinking on expansion, and invites, etc as none of them are going to tell us that directly until the decision is made. When the BIG expanded and invited Rutgers, Maryland, it caught all the so called experts totally by surprise with the rapidity of it, and the schools invited as well, and the reasons given for the unexpected choices. So you could be right that Uconn was close to an invite for your reasons given, and just as right it could be that Uconn was never close to an invite too( for whatever reasons ). The only thing we DO know, is how little we all know as to how close Uconn was.. or is... to an invite by a P5 Conference. God only knows, the media gets it wrong with what they publish every day of the week, so their insights, reporting, etc on this generally are not very reliable, imo.

 

[Yawkey Way]

BC and Syr. They got what they wanted and probably an assurance that UConn would not be offered before the statute of limitations on these things runs out.

I have no idea what this " statue of limitations " is that you are referring too. So I'm at a loss to attempt a reply on something I am unfamiliar with.

What is the " statue of limitations " on this ? Or are you commenting just euphemistically, symbolically, or some such with this ?

 

[Yawkey Way]

BC had significant influence over the ACC in the past and it continues to do so in the structure when it comes to the subject of adding new members.

Well, can we agree that this assessment.. if true.... runs totally against the overwhelming sentiment expressed by many Uconn fans before BC acc4epted the ACC invite that if BC went to the ACC, that they would be totally under the boot of the Tobacco Road schools in the ACC, and as a " northern, Yankee school " the repeated mantra, they would have no influence in anything at all once they got there ? If you are a long timer, you will remember this prevailing sentiment. Can we at least come around to the agreement that such predictions and assessments were wrong ... if as you claim now, BC could prevail upon the other schools to keep Uconn out once it got to the ACC.

As for the process... it is my understanding, that the ACC has a committee in place to discuss possible expansion. The process entails a recommended vote out of committee to full membership for discussion. It is the School Presidents that vote. Thats my understanding. I have no knowledge that Uconn has ever come up for a vote by the School presidents. if you want to cite the source for the vote for or against an Uconn invite, by these School Presidents, then I'd be more than happy to look at it.... and then comment on it, if you'd like.

 

[CL82]

BC and Syracuse wielded enough power at the time of their invitation to join the ACC to keep UConn out. They may not have such power now but it doesn't matter. They got what they wanted and probably an assurance that UConn would not be offered before the statute of limitations on these things runs out.

We've talked about this ad nauseum. Syracuse did not keep UConn out of the ACC. When polled they weren't in favor of it but they did not have a say. BC, while clearly not "wielding enormous power" within the league was uniquely situated to block UConn twice. Once as a member of the committee (1 of 3 I believe) vetting new members and once by joining the FSU/Clemson group. I believe Yawkey knows these narratives, he's been around long enough, but he consistently misstates the narrative. Believe no one, not even BC believes they wield enormous power. They are a well positioned cling on and nothing more. That said I absolutely envy their conference situation, if not their inability to win championship in any sport that doesn't involve wearing skates.

 

[Yawkey Way]

We've talked about this ad nauseum. Syracuse did not keep UConn out of the ACC. When polled they weren't in favor of it but they did not have a say. BC, while clearly not "wielding enormous power" within the league was uniquely situated to block UConn twice. Once as a member of the committee (1 of 3 I believe) vetting new members and once by joining the FSU/Clemson group. I believe Yawkey knows these narratives, he's been around long enough, but he consistently misstates the narrative. Believe no one, not even BC believes they wield enormous power. They are a well positioned cling on and nothing more. That said I absolutely envy their conference situation, if not their inability to win championship in any sport that doesn't involve wearing skates.

BC has won a National Championship in Major College Football, albeit of course it was a long time ago ( and we need not get into who has won National Championships in Football, and who hasn't as its essentially an irrelevant sidebar to the thread topic anyway ).

Here's the essential "narrative", as I see it, anyway : College Football decisions are essentially made on one thing and one thing alone : Money. If schools can be shown that making a decision re. sports, especially football, will make them money, they will vote to enrich themselves, period. It doesn't matter what another school wants or doesn't want as a member school. Show them the money possibilities, and they'll vote yes every time for themselves. The reverse is also true. Show a school that another league school is a money drain and they will not only not invite them, they will kick to the curb any school that is already a league member.. Remember the BE ? They had an academic bottom feeder as West Virginia in its league. But they made money. Money for the BE. Temple, on the other hand was a school that was not making money. So these " academic " school Presidents that tell us ad nauseum how important it is to be " Academic " decided to kick Temple to the curb... bounced them clear out of the BE. The fact that Temple is a fine school academically is irrelevant. What mattered was the money to these school presidents. Period. So... if its determined that Uconn will make money for the ACC, or any other P5 league for that matter, it doesn't matter what the preferred wishes are of any other school. These schools will beat a path to your door if they believe that an alignment with you will make them money. Now, I do not pretend to know what goes on behind closed doors in these meetings when it comes to who to invite and not to invite, but it seems to me that these schools are currently not yet convinced that adding Uconn football to their league will make these other schools money with that invite. Why they have currently concluded this is unclear to me, and open to any number of reasons. But fundamentally, these schools are about making money for their schools sports teams. Show them the money.. or future money opportunities.. convince them of that, and the dollars will trump revenge, spite, hesitation, loyalty, fidelity, collegiality, " defer to the wishes of another school ", and yada yada, etc every time. Thats the essential " narrative " on how league expansions are determined anyway in my view. Its the money. Its always about the money .. and only the money...when the school presidents get together to make future decisions about their leagues they are in, moving forward.

 

[Fishy]

You wonder what the ACC actually thinks of Boston College now.

Couldn't help but notice that they drew Marist in the ACC/Big Ten Challenge...

 

[Kolumbo]

BC has won a National Championship in Major College Football, albeit of course it was a long time ago ( and we need not get into who has won National Championships in Football, and who hasn't as its essentially an irrelevant sidebar to the thread topic anyway ).

Here's the essential "narrative", as I see it, anyway : College Football decisions are essentially made on one thing and one thing alone : Money. If schools can be shown that making a decision re. sports, especially football, will make them money, they will vote to enrich themselves, period. It doesn't matter what another school wants or doesn't want as a member school. Show them the money possibilities, and they'll vote yes every time for themselves. The reverse is also true. Show a school that another league school is a money drain and they will not only not invite them, they will kick to the curb any school that is already a league member.. Remember the BE ? They had an academic bottom feeder as West Virginia in its league. But they made money. Money for the BE. Temple, on the other hand was a school that was not making money. So these " academic " school Presidents that tell us ad nauseum how important it is to be " Academic " decided to kick Temple to the curb... bounced them clear out of the BE. The fact that Temple is a fine school academically is irrelevant. What mattered was the money to these school presidents. Period. So... if its determined that Uconn will make money for the ACC, or any other P5 league for that matter, it doesn't matter what the preferred wishes are of any other school. These schools will beat a path to your door if they believe that an alignment with you will make them money. Now, I do not pretend to know what goes on behind closed doors in these meetings when it comes to who to invite and not to invite, but it seems to me that these schools are currently not yet convinced that adding Uconn football to their league will make these other schools money with that invite. Why they have currently concluded this is unclear to me, and open to any number of reasons. But fundamentally, these schools are about making money for their schools sports teams. Show them the money.. or future money opportunities.. convince them of that, and the dollars will trump revenge, spite, hesitation, loyalty, fidelity, collegiality, " defer to the wishes of another school ", and yada yada, etc every time. Thats the essential " narrative " on how league expansions are determined anyway in my view. Its the money. Its always about the money .. and only the money...when the school presidents get together to make future decisions about their leagues they are in, moving forward.

I'm not gonna lie to you. I just can't invest enough time to read 20 lines of something which may or may not be of interest to me.

 

[Kolumbo]

You wonder what the ACC actually thinks of Boston College now.

Couldn't help but notice that they drew Marist in the ACC/Big Ten Challenge...

Don't sell short the Red Foxes of Marist - New York's college team.

 

[ThetaZoo]

I have no idea what this " statue of limitations " is that you are referring too. So I'm at a loss to attempt a reply on something I am unfamiliar with.

What is the " statue of limitations " on this ? Or are you commenting just euphemistically, symbolically, or some such with this ?

I was speaking euphemistically. I could have said, the number of years that the ACC promised BC that UConn would be blackballed.