More ACC issues...now Virginia

[Yawkey Way]

You wonder what the ACC actually thinks of Boston College now.

.

Few ACC Schools have been to as many combined League Championship Games in basketball and football as BC, so my guess, unless its the jealousy in some quarters of the ACC, the School Presidents are making money. Except for the Spaz couple of football seasons, BC goes to Bowl Games most every year, so they are bringing in the money under revenue sharing guidelines... and we've been reading on here that BC can apparently single handedly use political muscle to " keep Uconn out of the ACC " ( not my belief, but apparently the belief of quite a few Uconn fans it appears )... add it all up, and it appears BC is a player in the ACC. But then again, who cares what other schools think of one another. Its a competitive situation, where schools are brought together to make money for each other, despite their differences. We could of course contemplate what all the AAC schools think of Uconn football these days too. But I suspect you don't care what they are thinking there either, I'd imagine.

 

[Fishy]

Oh, I'm sure they are all sorts of jealous of the heavyweight athletic program you all have put together.

It's clicking on all cylinders these days.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I was speaking euphemistically. I could have said, the number of years that the ACC promised BC that UConn would be blackballed.

I have no knowledge that the ACC has any agreement or promise with BC to keep Uconn out of the ACC. I suspect that due to the quickly changing college football landscape, the ACC would never ever put themselves in any position with any alleged promise to " blackball " a school with any timelines as an alleged agreement with any other ACC school. Its ludicrous to believe that the ACC has promised BC anything at all regarding what schools the league might or might not invite in the future thru membership voting. The claim that somehow the ACC member schools got together and came to a collective agreement among themselves, and then offered to BC a promise, with a date certain, to keep Uconn out of the ACC is such unbelievable fantasy . Its just too funny- weird to think that anyone would actually believe such nonsense. Scientists tell us that anger sometimes clouds one rational, reason based, thinking. I suspect that perhaps this might explain some of the things I'm reading here from some ( not all ) posters.

 

[buddy]

I have no knowledge that the ACC has any agreement or promise with BC to keep Uconn out of the ACC. I suspect that due to the quickly changing college football landscape, the ACC would never ever put themselves in any position with any alleged promise to " blackball " a school with any timelines as an alleged agreement with any other ACC school. Its ludicrous to believe that the ACC has promised BC anything at all regarding what schools the league might or might not invite in the future thru membership voting. The claim that somehow the ACC member schools got together and came to a collective agreement among themselves, and then offered to BC a promise, with a date certain, to keep Uconn out of the ACC is such unbelievable fantasy . Its just too funny- weird to think that anyone would actually believe such nonsense. Scientists tell us that anger sometimes clouds one rational, reason based, thinking. I suspect that perhaps this might explain some of the things I'm reading here from some ( not all ) posters.

I don't understand why you cannot accept the fact that through publicized statements from your former AD that they were opposed to UConn's admission to the ACC and it is clear that the ACC accepted that request. All the presidents, all the committees that may have said this or that are irrelevant. The fact is BC opposed UConn. Always did and probably always will. Why you keep defending BC on this board is unbelievable. You are the one living in fantasy world.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Oh, I'm sure they are all sorts of jealous of the heavyweight athletic program you all have put together.

It's clicking on all cylinders these days.

I never claimed that BC has great fans. Heck, if leagues made their choices of teams for their leagues on " fans", maybe you guys wouldn't be so angry and frustrated in the AAC now. As it is, despite the snapshot here, if you want to compare " fans ", BC has a higher football attendance at home games, and a higher TV viewership for its football games... including viewership in New England. You shouldn't change the topic like this either and sarcastically refer to basketball programs that are " clicking on all cylinders". It opens the door to football comparisons that are not to your favor. So don't even go there would be my suggestion re. athletic programs that are " clicking on all cylinders ".

 

[Fishy]

We're bad at football.

You're bad at damned near everything. No one give's a s--- about your football program and people sure as hell aren't interested in seeing it on television. As for hoops, again, the ACC sent you to play Marist while the grownups had their challenge with the Big Ten.

There you go, f--- stick.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

As for the process... it is my understanding, that the ACC has a committee in place to discuss possible expansion. The process entails a recommended vote out of committee to full membership for discussion. It is the School Presidents that vote. Thats my understanding. I have no knowledge that Uconn has ever come up for a vote by the School presidents. if you want to cite the source for the vote for or against an Uconn invite, by these School Presidents, then I'd be more than happy to look at it.... and then comment on it, if you'd like.

That part I agree with in that the University Presidents have final say and that is where the 2/3 super majority vote comes into play. In addition I also believe that UConn's admission into the ACC was never voted on. Why? Because like every other conference, no potential member will be voted on until it is a guarantee that said member will be approved. Neither the conference nor the proposed new ember want to lose face. Through the afore mentioned committee, which BC sat on, and other internal discussions, it was clear that the southern football block (Miami, FSU, Clemson) and BC would effectively block (4 votes equals a veto) UConn's entrance. Thus, it was never put to a vote.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I don't understand why you cannot accept the fact that through publicized statements from your former AD that they were opposed to UConn's admission to the ACC and it is clear that the ACC accepted that request. .

For the simple reason that I have evidence to support the first, but none whatsoever to support the 2nd.

Its is indisputable that BC AD made his wishes known that he did not support Uconn's entry into the ACC... and there is some evidence that he may have gone further and attempted to lobby for that position. What is unclear, and open to honest speculation is whether or not the other ACC Schools acted on the BC's position on this, or whether in fact they made their decision at the time, not to invite Uconn for reasons wholly apart from BC's position on this. As mentioned earlier, my best guess is that the ACC schools saw a Uconn fotball program that was in its comparative infancy, and at the time was transitional in coaches, and it was unclear how long Edsall would stay.. and whether or not Uconn football had lasting power. Plus, the ACC did have other schools it was exploring.. programs ith longer football histories. Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville come to mind. So while its easy to blame BC, its entirely possible that the schools really made their decision on factors unrelated to BC 's wishes... and of course the other variable, is that the ACC schools Uconn needed support from were sued... and Swofford sued personally, as well. That might have not been... well... politically helpful, to say the least. But if Uconn football demonstrates that the schools will all make money with an invite, Uconn will get that invite. And BC, or no other school could stop that... as money tops all, in regards to how schools look at expansion.

 

[Yawkey Way]

We're bad at football.

You're bad at damned near everything. No one give's a s--- about your football program and people sure as hell aren't interested in seeing it on television. As for hoops, again, the ACC sent you to play Marist while the grownups had their challenge with the Big Ten.

There you go, f--- stick.

Uconn is a Basketball School. BC is a football/ Hockey school. Thats how the schools are perceived by those outside of parochial New England. Your anger and profanity and insults to me doesn't change that dynamic. If you want to talk Basketball.... Marist.... etc... you have my understanding of where Uconn sits on the pecking order of College Basketball. As for football, your comment that " nobody is interested BC footbal on television " goes downhill quickly, as it invites comparisons of attendance, viewerships, etc... and thus I did suggest that you don't go that route as you lose the football.. attendance... viewership... discussion right away. Besides, I did not intend to take this thread discussion into that realm at all... and certainly did not intend to have it devolve into profanity, anger, and irrrationality.

 

[Fishy]

Thanks for your suggestions.

Go ahead - tell us where Boston College stands in the football world.

Impress us with your delusions.

 

[buddy]

For the simple reason that I have evidence to support the first, but none whatsoever to support the 2nd.

Its is indisputable that BC AD made his wishes known that he did not support Uconn's entry into the ACC... and there is some evidence that he may have gone further and attempted to lobby for that position. What is unclear, and open to honest speculation is whether or not the other ACC Schools acted on the BC's position on this, or whether in fact they made their decision at the time, not to invite Uconn for reasons wholly apart from BC's position on this. As mentioned earlier, my best guess is that the ACC schools saw a Uconn fotball program that was in its comparative infancy, and at the time was transitional in coaches, and it was unclear how long Edsall would stay.. and whether or not Uconn football had lasting power. Plus, the ACC did have other schools it was exploring.. programs ith longer football histories. Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville come to mind. So while its easy to blame BC, its entirely possible that the schools really made their decision on factors unrelated to BC 's wishes... and of course the other variable, is that the ACC schools Uconn needed support from were sued... and Swofford sued personally, as well. That might have not been... well... politically helpful, to say the least. But if Uconn football demonstrates that the schools will all make money with an invite, Uconn will get that invite. And BC, or no other school could stop that... as money tops all, in regards to how schools look at expansion.

If BC supported UConn at that time, UConn would be a member of the ACC. There is no question here. Other BE schools who are now members of the ACC were a party to that lawsuit. You seem have forgotten that the UConn and Syracuse were the initial schools considered in the next to last round of CR and because of BC, Pitt was invited instead of UConn. It was in 2012 that the southern schools and BC were looking for a "football" school and chose Louisville over UConn. But UConn should have been a member before that, but it was BC who was mostly responsible. I don't understand why you continually come here trying to defend BC. It is an indefensible position.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Few ACC Schools have been to as many combined League Championship Games in basketball and football as BC, so my guess, unless its the jealousy in some quarters of the ACC,

What ACC success? In the major ACC revenue sports - football, men's basketball, and women's basketball, BC has a conference record since 2005/6 and not including 2014/5 of just about .500 for all three sports. Within those sports, BC has been to 2 championship games since 2005/6, both in football, and lost both. Wake Forest has more ACC Championships in football than BC in footballs since BC joined - 1 (2005/6). Neither BC's men's nor women's basketball teams have won an ACC regular season title nor conference championship. Combined, the two have 4 NCAA Tournament appearances - 3 men, 1 women. BC does not even sponsor a team the ACC's next most high profile sport - men's lacrosse. The only sport that BC has been successful in since 2005/6 is men's hockey with the team having won 3 NCAA titles (lost 2 others) and that is a sport that the ACC does not sponsor. Don't see any reason within the ACC to be jealous of BC at all.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Thanks for your suggestions.

Go ahead - tell us where Boston College stands in the football world.

Impress us with your delusions.

No.. I don't think so. You appear to me to be way too angry a dude.. and a bit close minded frankly, for me to want to discuss anything further with you.

 

[auggie22]

As near as I can tell BC is a football school that averages 33k and fails to sell out home games against a top 10 ranked USC even in the midst of a competitive season, struggles getting alumni that live within 20 mins of campus to accept free football tickets despite playing a big boy schedule, carries selective appeal to bowl officials nationally, achieves modest to good tv ratings only when they play a nationally appealing opponent. And stirs ambivalence in their home market even when ranked in the top 5. By "football school" did you mean "not a basketball school"? I can get onboard with that.

 

[Fishy]

I'll help.

You're nowhere in college athletics. Your reach ends about a block from Cleveland Circle.

Boston College is great at hockey and cashing checks.

Past that...crickets.

But you know this in your lil mind even if your lil heart doesn't want to accept it.

 

[Yawkey Way]

If BC supported UConn at that time, UConn would be a member of the ACC. There is no question here..

Why is this not open to speculation ? Why is there a certainty about this ? That it was a slam dunk that if BC did not express their resistance to Uconn, Uconn was going to get the votes for admittance to the ACC ? There is no evidence that I'm aware of that schools made it known that Uconn to the ACC was a slamdunk, absent the wishes of BC. It MIGHT be the case. But it certainly falls into the realm of some uncertainty and speculation at the very least, that absent BC's wishes, UConn was a slam dunk to the ACC.

Is BC's position on this STILL the reason TODAY that the other ACC schools have not decided to invite UCONN to the ACC ?.... as another Uconn poster said on here, " because there is still a statue of limitations in effect " ? as he said to " blackball Uconn from getting to the ACC , as a " promised agreement by the ACC to BC ? Is this what most Uconn posters here believe ? Just asking here, thats all...and trying to make sense of what I've been reading on here regarding this.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I'll help.

You're nowhere in college athletics. Your reach ends about a block from Cleveland Circle.

Boston College is great at hockey and cashing checks.

Past that...crickets.

But you know this in your lil mind even if your lil heart doesn't want to accept it.

Well, I hate to sink to your level of insulting discussion, but I'll make an exception especially for you, and only for you.. " it must have been then the superior ability of BC to cash checks, skate, and find crickets that apparently got BC into the ACC".

Whats your excuse..., fishy ? You can't do these things ?

 

[Fishy]

Well, I hate to sink to your level of insulting discussion, but I'll make an exception especially for you, and only for you.. " it must have been then the superior ability of BC to cash checks, play hockey, and gather crickets that apparently got BC into the ACC".

Whats your excuse..., fishy ?

Well, given the weak history of those who would have gone before us, some of the football block in the ACC might be reticent to invite another northeastern school while those selfsame northeastern schools are clearly afraid to have UConn play in their neighborhood.

I can't say I blame Florida State or Clemson for not wanting to risk another Boston College.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Well, given the weak history of those who would have gone before us, some of the football block in the ACC might be reticent to invite another northeastern school while those selfsame northeastern schools are clearly afraid to have UConn play in their neighborhood.

I can't say I blame Florida State or Clemson for not wanting to risk another Boston College.

I'm pleased to hear that FSU and Clemson have your support. I've been to both places for matchups and hope to return, God Willing. I'll share your comments on this with the fans there upon my return.. I was at Tallahassee in '08 when BC won there., they toasted us with their mugs and glasses when we left the parking lot after BC won there.... very classy. Clemson is a great place with mostly hospitable, friendly fans as well.

 

[CL82]

Uconn is a Basketball School. BC is a football/ Hockey school. Thats how the schools are perceived by those outside of parochial New England.

Ah, keep him talking long enough and a bit of truth comes out. BC has no support in "parochial New England. So where exactly does it have support?

 

[Yawkey Way]

Ah, keep him talking long enough and a bit of truth comes out. BC has no support in "parochial New England. So where exactly does it have support?

The jist of the comment here is that Uconn is viewed outside" parochial New England" as a Basketball School while BC is viewed as a Football/ Hockey School ( for college sports ). " Parochial " here was meant not to be taken in a religious sense however, but in a " provincial, insular " sense. In hindsight, to avoid any potential confusion, I might have been better served to have used " provincial, or insular " as the descriptive phrase instead of the " parochial " phrase. Sorry for the confusion.

You do accept that outside of New England that Uconn is viewed as a Basketball School, and BC as a Football/ Hockey School ?.... while making no value judgments as to the level of success or lack thereof in such sports at these 2 schools ? Its seems like a no brainer that this is how the college sports world views the 2 schools, irrespective to whether or not the perception is accurate or not. Perception unfortunately does tend to take on a life of its own... it may partially explain BC's challenge and obstacles to establish a growing reputation for Basketball, and Uconn's challenge and obstacles to establish a growing reputation for Football. Its just a thought, anyway.

 

[ThetaZoo]

The jist of the comment here is that Uconn is viewed outside" parochial New England" as a Basketball School while BC is viewed as a Football/ Hockey School ( for college sports ). " Parochial " here was meant not to be taken in a religious sense however, but in a " provincial, insular " sense. In hindsight, to avoid any potential confusion, I might have been better served to have used " provincial, or insular " as the descriptive phrase instead of the " parochial " phrase. Sorry for the confusion.

You do accept that outside of New England that Uconn is viewed as a Basketball School, and BC as a Football/ Hockey School ?.... while making no value judgments as to the level of success or lack thereof in such sports at these 2 schools ? Its seems like a no brainer that this is how the college sports world views the 2 schools, irrespective to whether or not the perception is accurate or not. Perception unfortunately does tend to take on a life of its own... it may partially explain BC's challenge and obstacles to establish a growing reputation for Basketball, and Uconn's challenge and obstacles to establish a growing reputation for Football. Its just a thought, anyway.

Yeah, parochial might not be the best term to use seeing as it is often associated with the Catholic church, the church that governs your institution and the one that preaches charity and temperance among other virtues each Sunday.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

The jist of the comment here is that Uconn is viewed outside" parochial New England" as a Basketball School while BC is viewed as a Football/ Hockey School ( for college sports ). " Parochial " here was meant not to be taken in a religious sense however, but in a " provincial, insular " sense. In hindsight, to avoid any potential confusion, I might have been better served to have used " provincial, or insular " as the descriptive phrase instead of the " parochial " phrase. Sorry for the confusion.

You do accept that outside of New England that Uconn is viewed as a Basketball School, and BC as a Football/ Hockey School ?.... while making no value judgments as to the level of success or lack thereof in such sports at these 2 schools ? Its seems like a no brainer that this is how the college sports world views the 2 schools, irrespective to whether or not the perception is accurate or not. Perception unfortunately does tend to take on a life of its own... it may partially explain BC's challenge and obstacles to establish a growing reputation for Basketball, and Uconn's challenge and obstacles to establish a growing reputation for Football. Its just a thought, anyway.

Yeah, I was wondering about the use of 'parochial' as that typically refers to religion (Christian) and UConn is a secular, state university. Even in the '90's when I was at Storrs and UConn's academic profile was not as strong as it is today, UConn was more of a Northeastern regional university (70% freshman are from CT, which is typical of most state flagship universities outside of a few such as UVA and Michigan) and not New England as UConn has always drawn well NY and NJ in addition to New England. Today, UConn is considered a major national research university with high aspirations. BC, which was just as much of a commuter school in the pre-Flutie days as UConn was, is now an excellent university and has grown tremendously in the last 30 years; but, it is not a research university - no engineering, no med school, no agriculture, etc.

On the athletic side, yes, UConn's football is in the trash right now and it happened at the worst possible time. But, calling BC a national football power is a stretch. To be national power, a team needs some of the following:

• Win few national championships (BC has 1 national championship from 1940 that is heavily disputed)
  
• Regularly win conference championships: BC has 0 ACC championships and 1 Big E co-championship (UConn has 2)
• Presences in BCS Bowls/Playoffs: BC has no appearances, UConn has 1
  
• High all-time winning percentage: BC .579 (UConn .480 including I-AA, ND .780, Alabama .710), which is 41st nationally in I-A football
  
• Have a large football stadium: Alumni Stadium, 44,500 (UConn's rent is 40,000)
• Have top-notch football practice facilities - BC has a seasonal/temporary bubble put over Alumni stadium each each (UConn has the Burton complex, which is permanent and doesn't need to be inflated like the bouncy houses the neighbors rent for birthday parties)
  
• Major, mutual rivalries: ND - not mutual as ND views USC and Navy as its two top rivals, Syracuse - also not mutual as most Syracuse fans say that Georgetown is their biggest rival, which shows everyone how football centric that school is

No of this says national power outside. Regional, yes, as seen with BC's on-going recruiting success in Jersey.

In basketball, BC has periodically been good; but, right now, BC is stuck in the cellar of the ACC and is not even the best basketball program in Boston right now (Harvard is). UConn is without question a national power (though if one follows ESPN, one would be hard pressed to know that all-mighty Kentucky lost the national title game to UConn in April).

No argument that BC is a national power in Hockey; but, the southern football programs south of the Mason Dixon line don't care about hockey. Just ask the ACC, who does not even sponsor the sport. Ironically, one of the big reasons that BC hockey has been so good over the years is that recruits are drawn to the opportunity to not only play for BC; but, also to play against BU and the other Hockey East powers every year. That rivalry made BC hockey better. The same could of happened with BC and UConn football if BC could have seen past its bruised ego (the Blumenthal suit was foolish; but enough of the 'oh they sued us!' whining) and their parochial/provincial/insular need to protect their 'turf.'

 

[Yawkey Way]

Yeah, parochial might not be the best term to use seeing as it is often associated with the Catholic church, the church that governs your institution and the one that preaches charity and temperance among other virtues each Sunday.

You made assumptions that are inaccurate in my case. BC is not " my institution " ( I did not attend BC ), and I am not a Catholic, so whatever " virtues " you tell me it preaches each Sunday ( or Saturday.. or any other day of the week) is of no interest, nor concern to me. Futhermore, seeking lessons on " Charity " and " Temperance " is not something I am seeking in my following of college sports... no matter " the Institution ". I'm interested in the game of football being played. I don't care what the players, coaches, school do off the field. None of them are my inspiration and guidance for anything beyond the watching of
their football skills.

 

[pj]

I think he was making the inference from "BC is viewed outside of New England as a football school" to "New Englanders recognize that BC is no football school" to your use of parochial to denigrate New Englanders as a sign of butthurtness.