Mississippi St (5) @ Oregon (7) - 12/18/18

[HuskyFan1125]

PAC-12 with the Tuesday night sweep in WCBB. Not sure i would have thought that this morning. Proud of the west coast teams. Way to represent. PAC-12 is one of the conferences i think will have an interesting finish come March.

 

[SECbbfan24]

MSU lacks a consistent 3 point threat that opens up the inside this season. Outside of Bibby and Howard who occasionally takes them

Last year they had
Vivians, who did make those shots but also created her own
Morgan Williams and Schaefer knocked down 3's as well to keep the D honest.



The Defense at this point is a work in progress. The guards have quick hands and cause deflections and loose balls but this years team has struggled mightily with teams driving the ball inside the lane off the pick and roll.

 

[willtalk]

But getting up under a player so they can’t plant their feet or bodying a player so they can’t make a move is the issue. That’s like saying undercutting isn’t in the rule book because the player left the floor and doesn’t own that court space to land anymore. Part of it came more with that “freedom of movement” emphasis a few years ago. You must give players room to move or it basically implies too much physical contact.

However when you have established defensive position in contact with the offensive player attempting to do the same, when the offensive player then gets the ball you do not have to allow them somewhere to move. Usually the offensive player in the post is initiating contact with out the ball as much as the defender. Once he gets the ball with contact still established the defenders being in contact is not held against them. You seldom see this in WBB, but it happened all the time in the old center dominated NBA. This sort of position jockying seems to be a thing of the past in the mens game as well. It would still be very applicable in the womens game if they only learned the basics of establishing post position. It seems to be a lost art in both mens and womens games. In the mens game because the post up center has become a dinosaur, but there is no such excuse in the womens game.

 

[DudyDog]

MSU lacks a consistent 3 point threat that opens up the inside this season. Outside of Bibby and Howard who occasionally takes them

Last year they had
Vivians, who did make those shots but also created her own
Morgan Williams and Schaefer knocked down 3's as well to keep the D honest.



The Defense at this point is a work in progress. The guards have quick hands and cause deflections and loose balls but this years team has struggled mightily with teams driving the ball inside the lane off the pick and roll.

Amazing that an LSU fan has a better grasp of MSU’s team than its own fans. msugrad00, please stop posting. It’s embarrassing. I’m being serious.

Congrats to Oregon. Great ballgame.

 

[southofnorth]

I am trying to visualize how your example might occur. If McCowan goes straight up to shoot with a vertical motion, she is occupying space that she owns. If Hebard's arms extend past the vertical and make contact with McCowan while she is shooting, then her arms are in opponent-owned space, so she is committing a foul. On the other hand, if Hebard holds up her arms up in a strict vertical position, and McCowan's shooting motion includes moving her arms forward into Hebard's "fence", then McCowan is in Hebard-owned space and has committed a foul.

And I’m having trouble understanding what space is guaranteed. It seems like wherever the players’ feet are is “their” space. Yet air space above that is anyone’s game? Why can a player body someone and it’s okay, but moving their arms to create a shot (a basketball move as opposed to the physical bodying of another player) not acceptable? When a defensive player has an arm at an angle and an offensive player chooses to make contact even if the defensive player’s arm is not in the offensive player’s space, the defensive player would still get called for a foul. It seems to me it’s because making a basketball play is considered above what the intent of the contact was (whether a player meant to make contact or it happened because the opposing player forced it). Rewatching a lot of games when Griner was in college, players would just barrel into her (Tiffany Hayes did this in the 2010 semifinal on the first play I think) and even though Griner was just standing there, she’d get called for the foul when she made no attempt to initiate contact. I’m honestly confused with a lot of the rules lately in WBB (protect the offensive player, freedom of movement, etc.) because they seem to be contradictory in more ambiguous cases. If I misinterpret them then that’s on me, but boy could I use a good instructional video on how things are supposed to work then.

 

[jonson]

Just got back from the game. I realize that 8,900 or so in attendance is not a big number to some, but the atmosphere was electric and, over the past three years, Oregon has moved from averaging somewhere around 2500 fans to slightly over 4000 to, so far this year, nearly a couple thousand more than that. I think that a makes the Oregon schools the best drawing teams in the Pac 12.

This team was a lot closer to the team many Oregon fans expected to see this year: Cazorla was at her best and Hebard was a warrior throughout. Last year, Oregon got killed on the boards; this year they actually out-rebounded MST by a couple. And, if Ionescu couldn't buy a bucket, she did her job--James Harden like--at the free throw line. To me, the key to the win was the play of Gildon and the freshman Chavez. To my eyes, they made a major difference defensively and kudos to Graves for leaving Boley and Sabally on the bench when he obviously had the option of putting them back in the game throughout the fourth quarter. Hoopgulz seems to have really missed the boat on Chavez, who surely seems much much better than a ranking in the 60s. She's quick, smart (for a freshman), and fearless. Graves said he recruited her because he saw her go toe-to-toe with Ionescu (and hold her own) in (I imagine) AAU play. In any case, she's a keeper.

 

[Carnac]

Mississippi State wins by 15 in a game that’s pretty close for 3 quarters. Oregon is gassed by the 4th, MSU defense starts turning them over and the runout train begins. Ionescu has a great game (but not by her standards), nobody else for Oregon has a great or even good game. McCowan gets a double double, so does Howard (points/rebs for both). Espinosa-Hunter shoots 5 3’s and Bibby chips in with a few.. the MSU backcourt places substantial pressure on Oregon’s guards and they won’t be able to do much, buckling under pressure.

Different year, same script. I would love to be wrong and finally be able to believe in Oregon but this is what we see from them when they go up against quick and athletic teams. Surprise me, Ducks.

You should have loved this game then. David slew Goliath. Oregon provided the blueprint of how to defeat the dawgs. There were a lot of things that combined to defeat them. Bad calls by the refs not withstanding. Hebard played McCowan tough the entire game.

When was the last time McCowan was held to 5 points? She did not play well tonight. Schaefer’s two best players fouled out. Tonight was just not their night.

 

[Shades]

 

[southofnorth]

However when you have established defensive position in contact with the offensive player attempting to do the same, when the offensive player then gets the ball you do not have to allow them somewhere to move. Usually the offensive player in the post is initiating contact with out the ball as much as the defender. Once he gets the ball with contact still established the defenders being in contact is not held against them. You seldom see this in WBB, but it happened all the time in the old center dominated NBA. This sort of position jockying seems to be a thing of the past in the mens game as well. It would still be very applicable in the womens game if they only learned the basics of establishing post position. It seems to be a lost art in both mens and womens games. In the mens game because the post up center has become a dinosaur, but there is no such excuse in the womens game.

I’m okay with contact, but even now watching some NBA games where players are trying to get position on the block it just looks awful. The defender “arm barring” (Read: pushing) the offensive player out of where they want to be and the offensive player throwing their arms around like they’re outside a car dealership. From what I’ve seen, most of the contact before the offensive player gets the ball is from the defensive player trying to keep from being buried. Once the offensive player has the ball, they create most of the contact to get to where they want to be.

 

[LoTrader]

Just got back from the game. I realize that 8,900 or so in attendance is not a big number to some, but the atmosphere was electric and, over the past three years, Oregon has moved from averaging somewhere around 2500 fans to slightly over 4000 to, so far this year, nearly a couple thousand more than that. I think that a makes the Oregon schools the best drawing teams in the Pac 12.

This team was a lot closer to the team many Oregon fans expected to see this year: Cazorla was at her best and Hebard was a warrior throughout. Last year, Oregon got killed on the boards; this year they actually out-rebounded MST by a couple. And, if Ionescu couldn't buy a bucket, she did her job--James Harden like--at the free throw line. To me, the key to the win was the play of Gildon and the freshman Chavez. To my eyes, they made a major difference defensively and kudos to Graves for leaving Boley and Sabally on the bench when he obviously had the option of putting them back in the game throughout the fourth quarter. Hoopgulz seems to have really missed the boat on Chavez, who surely seems much much better than a ranking in the 60s. She's quick, smart (for a freshman), and fearless. Graves said he recruited her because he saw her go toe-to-toe with Ionescu (and hold her own) in (I imagine) AAU play. In any case, she's a keeper.

jonson nailed it. Gildon & Chavez played fantastic. Gildon did a great job on Howard, boxing her out on the boards, and, not giving her easy put backs. Gildon was awesome, as she has been in many big games. Something ironic....UO is often spoken about as not having a "deep" bench. I'd have to say that MSU's bench is quite suspect. When Danburry fouled out, MSU looked lost. I didn't see any bench players from MSU able to come in and pick up the team. To me, that was the difference in the game today--UO's bench vs MSU's bench. I have to commend Ruthy Hebard's defense on McGowan. And, UO's strategy of making McGowan defend all night the pick & role until she was gassed. Great strategy by the Ducks. And finally, Corzola played like the great point guard she was all last season. Man, was she impressive tonight. PAC-12 conference is going to be wild this year.

 

[Shades]

 

[Carnac]

I have a sneaky feeling Oregon wins this. It just seems that everyone is high on Miss St. and down on Oregon, which is usually when a result comes along that upsets the groupthink.

I'm not totally sold on Miss St. They've beaten a pretty suspect Texas squad and eked out a close win over Marquette at home. That's about it. I'm not saying they're not a great team, I'm just not convinced yet.

Oregon has the firepower to beat anybody and they have home court here. They've played a few tough games already and learned about their weaknesses. These teams played last year, so they know roughly what to expect. Miss St.'s pressure defense won't surprise them.

I think it's much closer to a toss-up than the lopsided vote totals in the poll would indicate.

Your observations and feelings were correct. You were among the 22 posters that had Oregon winning? I didn’t see this coming. I didn’t see McCowan not playing well, or two starters fouling out, or the Ducks being that proficient from the stripe.

 

[Shorty Dee]

Coach Schaefer need to get McCowan out that swapping at the players habit she has. Everytime she do it, she end up out of position. Also, I notice Andy isn't getting that much playing time.

 

[Shorty Dee]

Mississippi State loss to Oregon, so do Mississippi State move down in ranks, and Oregon move up in ranks in the AP Poll and Coaches Poll?

 

[IWearShoes]

Oregon. 83
MSST 77

Very nice prediction.

 

[Shorty Dee]

Correction: Swapping should be swatting .

 

[eebmg]

Pretty funny. Two very different temperaments.

 

[hussybulldog]

Prob not much, i think the only team benefited the most from this one would be Stanford, instead of Oregon. They might ended up being 5th, even 4th in next week’s ranking .

Mississippi State loss to Oregon, so do Mississippi State move down in ranks, and Oregon move up in ranks in the AP Poll and Coaches Poll?

 

[willtalk]

If I remember correctly in last years meeting Hebard never was put on McCowan to defend her. She did a great job keeping her off the offensive boards. Last year McCowan just killed Gildon and the other players they put on her. She is just too tall. . She would have done the same this year if she had to have watched her full time. McCowan just got tired out in the second half and didn't even try to get positions.

 

[todbo]

Size matters, but coaching wins. McCowan was neutralized. (I'll always remember the shock of Louisville stopping Baylor and Britney Griner with Jeff Walz' outstanding game plan.)

 

[WNBA 09]

I'm just glad a great game of two high caliber teams is on ESPN before January.

10,000 +? I thought SC led the nation in attendance at a smudge above 9,000 last season...hmmm

 

[IrishTiger]

10,000 +? I thought SC led the nation in attendance at a smudge above 9,000 last season...hmmm

South Carolina averaged over 13,000 last season.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Decided to record this and watch this AM. Sorta wished I had missed the Vic "inspiring" pregame speech. "No pretty ball.... 40 minutes of hell." Yuck! Lost a little respect for him on that one.

 

[LETTERL]

I am stunned that Oregon was able to hold McCowan to just 5 points; she was a machine against NC State in last year's Sweet 16. We had no answer for her and she did whatever she wanted inside.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Different year, same script. I would love to be wrong and finally be able to believe in Oregon but this is what we see from them when they go up against quick and athletic teams. Surprise me, Ducks.

Apparently a rewrite on the script. Glad to see you are happy to be wrong.