Mississippi St (5) @ Oregon (7) - 12/18/18

[NWHoopFan2]

Umm, I think MSU had something to do with Ionescu being off her game but she impacted it in other ways. She played VERY well and those that continue to say she didn't because they've seen her play better (against less acclaimed teams than MSU!) are not considering what she did do and against this top 5 team. Don't give me that last years Stanford, OSU or other PAC12 team was better than this MSU, they weren't. When she has shot better, it was due to less tenacious defense. I know I was a tad agreesive with some of the over zealous MSU fans who were touting the defenase as elite, which it is not but it is VERY good and better than almost all the other PAC12 teams (maybe OSU).

So my point is -it would not have been a blowout as SI played as well as we all know she could! She is AA worthy! And saying such is denigrating MSU, who I still think is 3, 4 or 5 at worst.

Did you see last year’s PAC-12 tournament championship game?

 

[IWearShoes]

I look at the drafting of Alaina Coates at #2(I think) and I look at her riding the bench behind three other players who play her position. Personally to me, she looks like a project.
I caught the Baylor game (loss) and MSU last night (loss) and observed Brown and McGowan respectively.
Why a GM of the W would waste a high pick on these two players doesn't make sense to me. They look like 6'7" projects. Brown at least moves six feet from the rim at times. Conversely, She got hers shot blocked two times against Stanford. McGowan, I have seen Mercedes Russell move faster than her.
Neither of these players , at least this past week, plays like Sylvia Fowles. I know she is a WNBA all star, but Syl plays active defense and moves well. Perhaps Coach Reeves has made her into the star she is today.
MSU fans, what have I not seen from McGowan that you have. Does T have a hook shot? What does T do that is not a put back. Is that enough for a W team?
I am just way curious, that is all. I know she has produced big numbers.I just missed those games.

Did you see any MSU games in the tourney last year? It was a pretty dominant performance.

All the detractors of Teaira McCOWAN seem to miss the fact that, with her, MSU will probably lose no more than 3 games before the NCAAs. Without her, who knows? There are very few teams who can limit her at all when she's focused.

Oregon did a great job last night, but I'd be happy to see them again on a neutral court in the Elite Eight after this MSU team has a few months to gel.

I'll let the WNBA gurus address her place in that league.

 

[Shmermerer]

I look at the drafting of Alaina Coates at #2(I think) and I look at her riding the bench behind three other players who play her position. Personally to me, she looks like a project.
I caught the Baylor game (loss) and MSU last night (loss) and observed Brown and McGowan respectively.
Why a GM of the W would waste a high pick on these two players doesn't make sense to me. They look like 6'7" projects. Brown at least moves six feet from the rim at times. Conversely, She got hers shot blocked two times against Stanford. McGowan, I have seen Mercedes Russell move faster than her.
Neither of these players , at least this past week, plays like Sylvia Fowles. I know she is a WNBA all star, but Syl plays active defense and moves well. Perhaps Coach Reeves has made her into the star she is today.
MSU fans, what have I not seen from McGowan that you have. Does T have a hook shot? What does T do that is not a put back. Is that enough for a W team?
I am just way curious, that is all. I know she has produced big numbers.I just missed those games.

I agree. T is like Imani McGee-Stafford, but not as quick and doesn’t have a mid range jumper like Imani. And needless to say, Imani rides the pine for the Dream. T needs to learn not just post moves, but counter moves, and unfortunately she doesn’t have them. I will say she is light years better then she was her freshmen year.

 

[IWearShoes]

I agree. T is like Imani McGee-Stafford, but not as quick and doesn’t have a mid range jumper like Imani. And needless to say, Imani rides the pine for the Dream. T needs to learn not just post moves, but counter moves, and unfortunately she doesn’t have them. I will say she is light years better then she was her freshmen year.

Teaira is a significantly more effective post than Mcgee-Stafford at this point in her college career. Just Google their statistics.

 

[willtalk]

Umm, I think MSU had something to do with Ionescu being off her game but she impacted it in other ways. She played VERY well and those that continue to say she didn't because they've seen her play better (against less acclaimed teams than MSU!) are not considering what she did do and against this top 5 team. Don't give me that last years Stanford, OSU or other PAC12 team was better than this MSU, they weren't. When she has shot better, it was due to less tenacious defense. I know I was a tad agreesive with some of the over zealous MSU fans who were touting the defenase as elite, which it is not but it is VERY good and better than almost all the other PAC12 teams (maybe OSU).

So my point is -it would not have been a blowout as SI played as well as we all know she could! She is AA worthy! And saying such is denigrating MSU, who I still think is 3, 4 or 5 at worst.

Sometimes defense has something to do with it and other times a player just isn't hitting their shots open or not. Players have been known to be streaky. I feel you have not seen SI play enough to get a perspective of whether it was one or the other. You seem to feel that there are no good defensive players or teams in the Pac 12. Listen I have seen Sabrina make shot after shot with players constantly in her grill. Players are not machines. They well have games when they can not miss and other games they can not hit bunnies. For example SI missed an open driving layup in this game. That certainly was not because of defensive pressure.

I have often seen a players off day attributed to good defense when in fact it was just an off day. I have also seen players light it up despite good defense. Numbers by them selves often do not tell the story. The same can be said with McCowans disappearance. Was it good defense or just her having a really bad off day.? Perhaps a bit of both?

You have to play McCowan with out the ball. I mean Hebard made a real effort to keep her off the offensive boards which is usually where she does her most damage. This is what they could not do last year. Hebard was not on McCowan when they played last year. They mostly used 6'1" or 6'2" wings and McCowan just killed them. And McGwire played too far off because she was protecting the rim against Vivians drives. Besides McGwire having the size, she does not really have a post game on either offense or defense. No Vivian was probable the biggest factor in shutting down McCowan. If you put a body on her and keep her off the boards she pretty much can be negated on offense. Hebard also drew her out on defense and opened the lanes for drives thus also negating her impact on defense as well.

Basketball is a game of match ups and timing. The timing factor includes if players are having an off or on day, injuries, referring that favors on teams style, etc. Trap games being an example of that. Matchups would include if one team has the personal to either take advantage of or negate the other teams strengths via match ups. For example Louisville was a bad match up for Oregon St, but Miss St. would not have been. Gulish would have been trouble for McCowan even more so than she was for Brown, because she was big enough to match up physically yet too quick to allow them to match up against her. . Yet Miss State was a bad match up for Louisville. because of McCowans size and strength kept her from being negated by Louisville like they were able to do to Gulish. The luck of the draw often plays a major factor.

 

[JonathanXIV]

I think the Lady Turtles go undefeated and end up as the #1 seed in Greensboro.

Maryland could go undefeated and still not get a #1 seed with their schedule.

 

[MSUFan2003]

MSU fans, what have I not seen from McGowan that you have. Does T have a hook shot? What does T do that is not a put back. Is that enough for a W team?
I am just way curious, that is all. I know she has produced big numbers.I just missed those games.

I think her skill set is too limited. I think they have done a great job developing her from where she was, and I think she is a great college player. But I was really shocked that people thought she would be the #1 pick in the WNBA draft. I just don't see it. And that's not to denigrate her or what she's acccomplished at all.

She's broken records and developed beyond what I thought she could. She's contributed greatly to our team, and we would never have gone as far as we have without her. But she's not mobile enough and also lacks mental toughness and composure. I really think she is a great college player, but that's it. I don't watch a ton of the WNBA, but it seems like the game is moving away from those type players like the men did.

 

[oldude]

Maryland could go undefeated and still not get a #1 seed with their schedule.

I did think that too awhile back. But with Oregon, Baylor & MS St all stumbling, if MD runs the table it will be difficult for the committee not to give the turtles a #1 seed.

 

[Shmermerer]

Teaira is a significantly more effective post than Mcgee-Stafford at this point in her college career. Just Google their statistics.

Agreed; however, they will be similar prospects in the W. Big T has absolutely no offensive skill set. She will be a project just like Imani still is in the W. She will not be able to get offensive put backs and straight up layups agains WNBA posts and I’m not just talking about Fowles.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Agree with willtalk. Ionescu missed quite a few open shots she usually hits. It was just an off game. You can't credit the MSU defense for making her miss open shots can you? Their defense was actually quite poor in some regards. I don't think Oregon will enjoy that many wide open drives in the lane against any of their Pac 12 opponents. They scored 80+ with only 5 made 3 pointers.

 

[DefenseBB]

....I feel you have not seen SI play enough to get a perspective of whether it was one or the other. You seem to feel that there are no good defensive players or teams in the Pac 12. Listen I have seen Sabrina make shot after shot with players constantly in her grill. Players are not machines....

Let me parse your comments as there are a few divergent thoughts going on.
#1. I think Ionescu is AWESOME. She had a great game last night and was the main reason UO won. I take offense when commenters make it sound like she is significantly better and that had she made her shots, it would have been a blowout. That’s not true. If she would have made her shots, she probably doesn’t pass as much or Boley and Sabally play more, I have seen her play 19 times now so while not as much as some more than most on the East Coast.
#2. As the PAC12 is the strongest conference for the 3rd year running, I do appreciate it, what I don’t appreciate is Touting Sabrina having great shooting nights against Utah, Col, Wash St, Wash, last years USC as examples of how she is awesome. I do think OSU almost always and at time Stanford (they did give up 85 to Tenn yesterday) play good defense.
#3. Not sure of what that means as I do think she’s a great player and impacted the game differently last night. Never said she wasn’t a good shooter so you are misguided on your extolling her acume and as you noted players have a bad night for any number reasons- Ask Teira what happened last night, maybe it was UOs defense..something as rare a sighting as Sasquatch in the NW but it happened.
I choose to think MSU defense contributed to SI off shooting night. Nothing you can elicit from you caldron of past watched games will change what I felt I saw last night.
I think she was awesome last night but will ABSOLUTELY push back on those posters who want to give a different assessment that the game would have been a blowout if she played well shooting. Same could be said for Teira...

 

[Plebe]

Agree with willtalk. Ionescu missed quite a few open shots she usually hits. It was just an off game. You can't credit the MSU defense for making her miss open shots can you? Their defense was actually quite poor in some regards. I don't think Oregon will enjoy that many wide open drives in the lane against any of their Pac 12 opponents. They scored 80+ with only 5 made 3 pointers.

Sabrina had an off game and still scored 29. Imagine if she's been "on" — coulda scored 40 or more.

 

[nwhoopfan]

#1. I think Ionescu is AWESOME. She had a great game last night and was the main reason UO won.

Disagree. Equally important is the way Hebard battled McCowan and kept her off the offensive glass, and Cazorla's efficient scoring and dicing up MSU on the drive.

 

[IWearShoes]

Big T has absolutely no offensive skill set

I'm simply going to say that this is an overstatement and move on.

 

[maccca3232]

MSU lacks a consistent 3 point threat that opens up the inside this season. Outside of Bibby and Howard who occasionally takes them

Last year they had
Vivians, who did make those shots but also created her own
Morgan Williams and Schaefer knocked down 3's as well to keep the D honest.



The Defense at this point is a work in progress. The guards have quick hands and cause deflections and loose balls but this years team has struggled mightily with teams driving the ball inside the lane off the pick and roll.

As at 18th Dec 2018

C.Bibby currently ranks 10th in 3pt% at 51.1% and 130th in 3pt made at 2.36 per game.

For comparision:
K.Samuelson 73rd in 3pt% at 41.5% and 36th in 3pt made at 3.0 per game.
C.Dangerfield 50th in 3pt% at 43.8% and 135th in 3pt made at 2.33 per game

S.Ionescu 4th in 3pt% at 55.8% and 32nd in 3pt made at 3.1 per game.
A.Durr 120th in 3pt% at 38.4% and 36th in 3pt made at 3.0 per game.
E.Boley 135th in 3pt% at 37.7% and 48th in 3pt made at 2.9 per game.
A.Smith 11th in 3pt% at 50.0% and 70th in 3pt made at 2.67 per game.
D.Slocum 87th in 3pt% at 40.4% and 195th in 3pt made at 2.1 per game.

 

[IWearShoes]

Disagree. Equally important is the way Hebard battled McCowan and kept her off the offensive glass, and Cazorla's efficient scoring and dicing up MSU on the drive.

I actually think Cazorla was the key piece. Her and the fact that Vivians wears a Fever jersey now.

 

[nwhoopfan]

last years USC

Last years USC wasn't a great team, but they put a TON of pressure on ballhandlers and forced TO's constantly. They were a nightmare team to play against, very quick, very physical. Pushed the envelope on physical contact on defense. Their defense last year was better than what I saw from MSU last night, easily.

ASU is another team that has a long history of playing stingy defense and aren't much fun to play against.

I'm not sure why you keep insisting MSU's defense was so good when they gave up drives down the lane all night long. That was terrible defense collectively. It centered around the poor strategy of having McCowan hedging at the top of the key, but apparently nobody else was rotating over or recovering or anything else to cut off those drives. If MSU's D was solely responsible for Ionescu's 5-18 performance, how do you explain Cazorla and Hebard both going 7-10? Ducks shot 25-49 (51%) overall. Great D?

 

[DefenseBB]

Last years USC wasn't a great team, but they put a TON of pressure on ballhandlers and forced TO's constantly. They were a nightmare team to play against, very quick, very physical. Pushed the envelope on physical contact on defense. Their defense last year was better than what I saw from MSU last night, easily.

ASU is another team that has a long history of playing stingy defense and aren't much fun to play against.

I'm not sure why you keep insisting MSU's defense was so good when they gave up drives down the lane all night long. That was terrible defense collectively. It centered around the poor strategy of having McCowan hedging at the top of the key, but apparently nobody else was rotating over or recovering or anything else to cut off those drives. If MSU's D was solely responsible for Ionescu's 5-18 performance, how do you explain Cazorla and Hebard both going 7-10? Ducks shot 25-49 (51%) overall. Great D?

I know right? First, I took umbrage with MSU fans calling their defense elite, now I am saying they were awesome... Actually I think Vic tried to extend the defense to prevent UO from hitting 3s and long 2s as is 5e Ducks want and that led to the layups Corzala got-who also played awesome. I have said I just think it is not sound thinking that Sabrina had an off night in a nationally televised game in front a a large crowd with lots of pressure on them to perform after the stinker at the othe MSU. She did what she’s capable of-assists, drives, free throws all to spectacular fashion.

 

[maccca3232]

How did a red headed Australian (Bibby) find her way to Miss State? Nice shot.

PickandRoll.com.au article on Bibby from 16 Dec 2016.

“... location wasn’t a big thing, I was just like ‘what’s the best fit for me?'” Bibby explained.

“You know, the coaching philosophy, and just the community feel when I got over there, everyone was great, super-family oriented. I just felt welcome straight away. I can’t even describe anything else, it was just a gut feeling, I just felt like it was right.”

“I seriously think that they’re on the rise at the moment,” Bibby explained.

 

[IWearShoes]

Since this has come up quite a few times, there are a few MSU fans here who did not think this MSU team had proven itself to be elite (Top 5) on D. They definitely weren't last night, but still played even with Oregon for most of the game on their homecourt.

I think they will improve on D as the season progresses and T and Anriel figure each other out and Anriel better understands Vic's defensive philosophy. The focus and effort on D will always be there if not the execution.

 

[FridaFriend]

I want to commend Sabrina for good sportsmanship for something early in the game. Howard twisted her ankle as she was driving toward the basket. She went down hard and was clearly in pain. Ionescu stayed with her and spoke to her and then helped her up.

 

[Shmermerer]

I'm simply going to say that this is an overstatement and move on.

What does she do besides turn and go over her left shoulder? I haven’t seen anything else offensively and I watch MSU a lot.

 

[huskyd]

Wow. This is a thread well traveled. Just wanted to add that I enjoyed both the TN/Stanford game and this one. Very competitive and engaging. There's a tremendous amount of talent now in wcbb, which makes the game a better entertainment than in the past.
Sadly, in the Oregon game, Vic did his usual disruptive and unseemly act. They should T him up every time he leaves the coaches' box. Maybe that will sedate him enough to act like something less than a nut. He and Kim are embarrassments. Nice people? Probably. Good role models? Nah.

 

[LoTrader]

Maybe not, but of the 6 remaining undefeated teams in D1, MD has the weakest schedule left to play.

I think Baylor has the easiest conference schedule. I don't see Maryland going undefeated in their conference.

 

[LoTrader]

Disagree. Equally important is the way Hebard battled McCowan and kept her off the offensive glass, and Cazorla's efficient scoring and dicing up MSU on the drive.

Agree with nwhoopfan on this one. I will add that when Oti Gildon began guarding Anriel Howard, Anriel was pretty much neutralized. Cazorla was also amazing last night. Competently handling the ball while being harassed up and down the court by MSU guards, was impressive, plus her scoring in the lane was equally as impressive and important to UO's success last night.