IF there is Big 12 Expansion

[Dooley]

That depends on what is your definition of "best for the B12". To get a CG soon and tread water for the time being, I agree, BYU and Boise as football only makes the most sense. But if the conference wants long-term stability and a place in the power world, they can't stop there.

 

[junglehusky]

That depends on what is your definition of "best for the B12". To get a CG soon and tread water for the time being, I agree, BYU and Boise as football only makes the most sense. But if the conference wants long-term stability and a place in the power world, they can't stop there.

Nobody available gives them that level of stability. The names they needed most, Missouri and Nebraska, have already left. UConn /Cincinnati /UCF not be enough to keep UT / OU from bailing if that is what they really want.

 

[whaler11]

That depends on what is your definition of "best for the B12". To get a CG soon and tread water for the time being, I agree, BYU and Boise as football only makes the most sense. But if the conference wants long-term stability and a place in the power world, they can't stop there.

I guess my definition is what can they do today that is realistic.

The conference will never be stable because Texas doesn't give a damn about the conference.

 

[Dooley]

Nobody available gives them that level of stability. The names they needed most, Missouri and Nebraska, have already left. UConn /Cincinnati /UCF not be enough to keep UT / OU from bailing if that is what they really want.

I'm not disagreeing about the UT/OU part. Hey, I don't think they'll make a strong, large addition either. I think they'll do the bare minimum to get a CG in the short-term (during the duration of their GoR), but likely fold once the GoR expires and the top tier members (UT, OU, KU) leave for greener pastures.

All I'm saying is that the GoR is long-term. Can it be challenged and negotiated out? Maybe. I have a hard time thinking that Texas wouldn't sign something that they felt they couldn't get negotiate out of. But that's the risky approach. The no-risk power play for the B12 is to add all of the top G5 schools left. UConn and BYU are the two biggest brands, BY FAR. You add those two along with a few more football recruiting areas and good programs (Boise, Cinci, UCF) and a 6th TBD member (probably Houston on orders from Texas) and see what happens as your GoR is in place. When it expires, everyone can decide where they want to go (or stay). It will likely depend on what kind of TV money this new, larger league would generate but adding Orlando, Hartford/New Haven, Cincinnati, NYC, and BYU's national brand is a big step towards a TV media contract that would trump the ACC. Games that span 3 time zones. And not Tulsa vs Temple games. Good games with Texas, OU, BYU, Boise, etc.

But, again, I know full well they won't consider something like this. This is a dead conference walking.

 

[dayooper]

I guess my definition is what can they do today that is realistic.

The conference will never be stable because Texas doesn't give a damn about the conference.

Oklahoma doesn't either. They want what's best for them and it's either a conference network or its in a different conference. Kansas is in the same boat, but don't have the same pull. The other 7 need the Big12 to survive.

 

[Dooley]

I guess my definition is what can they do today that is realistic.

The conference will never be stable because Texas doesn't give a damn about the conference.

Agree with this.

 

[whaler11]

Oklahoma doesn't either. They want what's best for them and it's either a conference network or its in a different conference. Kansas is in the same boat, but don't have the same pull. The other 7 need the Big12 to survive.

I think Oklahoma has been given no choice. If Texas played nice they would be happy to stay.

The Big 12 and ACC aren't getting networks. That ship has sailed - they have some opportunity in that they have flexibility to be in front of where TV/streaming is going but neither has the leadership that would put them ahead of the curve.

 

[FDNY99]

I think Oklahoma has been given no choice. If Texas played nice they would be happy to stay.

The Big 12 and ACC aren't getting networks. That ship has sailed - they have some opportunity in that they have flexibility to be in front of where TV/streaming is going but neither has the leadership that would put them ahead of the curve.

The one difference though between the B-12 and ACC is that the schools in the B-12 still own their own 2nd and 3rd tier rights...the ACC sold those rights it Raycom. Setting up a B-12 network would be much easier than a ACC Network because of that (this has been constantly mentioned as the hold up for a ACCN in the past). At least the B-12 schools do have a revenue stream they can tap...ACC schools are stuck.

 

[whaler11]

I'm not disagreeing about the UT/OU part. Hey, I don't think they'll make a strong, large addition either. I think they'll do the bare minimum to get a CG in the short-term (during the duration of their GoR), but likely fold once the GoR expires and the top tier members (UT, OU, KU) leave for greener pastures.

All I'm saying is that the GoR is long-term. Can it be challenged and negotiated out? Maybe. I have a hard time thinking that Texas wouldn't sign something that they felt they couldn't get negotiate out of. But that's the risky approach. The no-risk power play for the B12 is to add all of the top G5 schools left. UConn and BYU are the two biggest brands, BY FAR. You add those two along with a few more football recruiting areas and good programs (Boise, Cinci, UCF) and a 6th TBD member (probably Houston on orders from Texas) and see what happens as your GoR is in place. When it expires, everyone can decide where they want to go (or stay). It will likely depend on what kind of TV money this new, larger league would generate but adding Orlando, Hartford/New Haven, Cincinnati, NYC, and BYU's national brand is a big step towards a TV media contract that would trump the ACC. Games that span 3 time zones. And not Tulsa vs Temple games. Good games with Texas, OU, BYU, Boise, etc.

But, again, I know full well they won't consider something like this. This is a dead conference walking.

Texas and Oklahoma aren't in dire straights like the G5. They have no need for the G5 schools.

The schools that would benefit from the G5 teams don't have a hammer.

Their TV deal goes through 2025 - the television rights world is going to be completely different in a decade - there is no reason to add schools now that aren't going anywhere. BSU, BYU, UCF, USF and Cincinnati have zero outs.

There is no reason to dilute the league with a bunch of schools that have marginal value a decade before they negoitate anything. None of those schools change the calculus on Oklahoma or Texas staying which is the entire premise the league is built on.

 

[whaler11]

The one difference though between the B-12 and ACC is that the schools in the B-12 still own their own 2nd and 3rd tier rights...the ACC sold those rights it Raycom. Setting up a B-12 network would be much easier than a ACC Network because of that (this has been constantly mentioned as the hold up for a ACCN in the past). At least the B-12 schools do have a revenue stream they can tap...ACC schools are stuck.

There is zero market for a Big 12 network and no media partner who is willing to spend the money to build it.

It doesn't even make any sense for a school like Kansas to lose/share their T3 money with TCUs, Baylors and Iowa States of the world.

 

[FDNY99]

There is zero market for a Big 12 network and no media partner who is willing to spend the money to build it.

It doesn't even make any sense for a school like Kansas to lose/share their T3 money with TCUs, Baylors and Iowa States of the world.

I guess I wasn't clear about my point.....because you totally took my post wrong...my point wasn't a B-12 network...I used that as an example of it being easier to set up if there was a need due to the 2nd and 3rd tier rights still being available. It is VERY well known that the B-12 schools all do very well with their 2nd and 3rd tier rights on their own (each school). It has been written about since day 1 talk of the ACCN (which was before the boat sailed) that it would most likely NEVER get off the ground because Swofford sold the 2nd and 3rd tier rights to Raycom, and that there was no way ESPN was going to buy back what they were basically already paying to produce. You have to admit those 2 items are on point.

 

[billybud]

I guess I wasn't clear about my point.....because you totally took my post wrong...my point wasn't a B-12 network...I used that as an example of it being easier to set up if there was a need due to the 2nd and 3rd tier rights still being available. It is VERY well known that the B-12 schools all do very well with their 2nd and 3rd tier rights on their own (each school). It has been written about since day 1 talk of the ACCN (which was before the boat sailed) that it would most likely NEVER get off the ground because Swofford sold the 2nd and 3rd tier rights to Raycom, and that there was no way ESPN was going to buy back what they were basically already paying to produce. You have to admit those 2 items are on point.

WVU makes about the same from their 2nd and 3rd tier rights as UConn....and that's for the whole ball of wax, stadium advertising, radio, coaches shows, and their one really bad football match.

 

[FDNY99]

WVU makes about the same from their 2nd and 3rd tier rights as UConn....and that's for the whole ball of wax, stadium advertising, radio, coaches shows, and their one really bad football match.

Add that to their B-12 payout and that's a nice chunk of change...like Whaler said pool that with other schools and it drops.

 

[whaler11]

I guess I wasn't clear about my point.....because you totally took my post wrong...my point wasn't a B-12 network...I used that as an example of it being easier to set up if there was a need due to the 2nd and 3rd tier rights still being available. It is VERY well known that the B-12 schools all do very well with their 2nd and 3rd tier rights on their own (each school). It has been written about since day 1 talk of the ACCN (which was before the boat sailed) that it would most likely NEVER get off the ground because Swofford sold the 2nd and 3rd tier rights to Raycom, and that there was no way ESPN was going to buy back what they were basically already paying to produce. You have to admit those 2 items are on point.

I don't think the Big 12 schools own tier 2. They only keep T3 which includes one home football game.

Nobody would start an ACC network anyway but you are right that the fact it's already sold makes it an impossibility.

When ESPN proper is fighting subscriber losses... nobody is investing in fringe networks that only have regional interest.

 

[pj]

WVU's influence in the Big 12 can be measured in Dood Units.

WVU's current influence level is negative eleventy Doods.

So it's strongly positive then?

 

[FDNY99]

Just for the record I'm all for UCONN keeping their 2nd and 3rd tier rights.

 

[dayooper]

Add that to their B-12 payout and that's a nice chunk of change...like Whaler said pool that with other schools and it drops.

The Big12 homers always claim that they get $6-$7 million on their tier three. Most P5 schools get that from their coaches show, radio broadcasts, ect. Most Big10 schools make as much as WVU does without any TV media included. It's one the Dude's talking points about how great the Big12 is, but it's just misdirection.

 

[FDNY99]

The Big12 homers always claim that they get $6-$7 million on their tier three. Most P5 schools get that from their coaches show, radio broadcasts, ect. Most Big10 schools make as much as WVU does without any TV media included. It's one the Dude's talking points about how great the Big12 is, but it's just misdirection.

We make $8 Mill/yr from IMG for our radio rights/marketing/coaches shows (radio)
http://www.imgcollege.com/news/2008/uconn-and-img-college-form-athletics-multi-media-r
I think Michigan as a similar deal with them. The women's hoops contract with SNY is for $1.14 million/yr.

 

[dayooper]

We make $8 Mill/yr from IMG for our radio rights/marketing/coaches shows (radio)
http://www.imgcollege.com/news/2008/uconn-and-img-college-form-athletics-multi-media-r
I think Michigan as a similar deal with them. The women's hoops contract with SNY is for $1.14 million/yr.

Yup, they signed an $86 million, 12 year contract with IMG back in 2008. The only thing they held back was the apparel deal.

 

[WestHartHusk]

We make $8 Mill/yr from IMG for our radio rights/marketing/coaches shows (radio)
http://www.imgcollege.com/news/2008/uconn-and-img-college-form-athletics-multi-media-r
I think Michigan as a similar deal with them. The women's hoops contract with SNY is for $1.14 million/yr.

That was our Tier 3 media women's contract...now that is our entire contract. Thanks Aresco.

 

[FDNY99]

That was our Tier 3 media women's contract...now that is our entire contract. Thanks Aresco.

No the AAC tv contract is worth $1.8 million/yr...
http://articles.courant.com/2013-03...1_mike-aresco-basketball-schools-burke-magnus

 

[FDNY99]

Yup, they signed an $86 million, 12 year contract with IMG back in 2008. The only thing they held back was the apparel deal.

So they have a similar deal as UCONN...UCONN's Nike contract is separate from the IMG contract as well.

 

[dayooper]

So they have a similar deal as UCONN...UCONN's Nike contract is separate from the IMG contract as well.

They usually are. You guys have a larger IMG contract than we do!

 

[FDNY99]

They usually are. You guys have a larger IMG contract than we do!

When UCONN signed their Nike deal...it was one of the larger deals of it's time...quickly passed though by a lot of schools. The IMG, Women's hoop tv deal, and Nike deal are HUGE right now. There is also the Webster Bank deal as well.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

UConn needs to be one of the teams chosen or Manuel needs to be fired. So Manuel needs to skip the buffet line in the Bahamas and get it done. The Titanic has already sunk and we are bobbing around in the north Atlantic, freezing to death. Everyone left in the water also knows they are freezing to death, as Bronco Mendenhall's recent comments indicate. There are potentially two spots left in one of the lifeboats, and we need to get one of those two spots. It is going to be 2 of 3 of UConn, Cincinnati and BYU.

I also think the only way the Big 10 or ACC even consider giving UConn an invitation is if UConn gets invited by the Big 12.

This is it.

6 months later, here we are. Go time.

The Big 12 wants to expand, and there is some major muscle in the conference behind expansion. The desire for a Big 12 Network is a major driver for expansion, and the last obstacle is Texas' desire to wait for the outcome of the 10 Team Amendment. The Big 12's amendment appears dead on arrival unless Delaney is appeased somehow, which he won't be. There is no way the vote goes against Delaney. He wouldn't have said anything unless he knew he had already blocked it. We don't know if Texas will continue to block expansion regardless of the outcome of the vote.

I agree with others that BYU appears to be out of the picture based on Mendenhall taking a dead-end Virginia job. If he thought there was any realistic chance of BYU getting into a major conference, he would have waited a year. Virginia is where coaches go to finish their careers early.

That leaves us in a face-off with Cincinnati and Houston. Cincinnati seems like a lock, which means Houston vs. UConn, mano y mano. We are not a lock by any means, but I like our odds. It is up to Herbst and Manuel to close the deal.

It also appears that Herbst may be getting a helping hand from the media. There are major sports reporters running with this story, not just basement dwelling, twitter freaks from Appalachia and the northern prairie. Raising UConn's profile with the media helps us out with the Big 12 Presidents, who will feel at least a little pressure to take the best academic school of the options.

More importantly, the open discussion of UConn to the Big 12 must be causing some phones to ring around Tobacco Road. Any hope of an ACC network requires a major NYC presence, and if the Big 12 adds UConn, NYC becomes a 3 conference town. The ACC has a spot for us and we know there is support among many in the league, with our biggest opponents at BCU having retired. The ACC knows it has to add us before the Big 12 does, because the Big 12 offer will most likely be exploding. We will find out real soon if A) there is any real meat behind these rumors and B) whether UConn has enough support in the ACC for an invitation. If either A or B are true, failure is not an option.