IF there is Big 12 Expansion

[nelsonmuntz]

Boise is literally one of the worst academic schools in the country and was seriously a junior college not too long ago. They have absolutely no television market, a small stadium and are located in a rural location with no corporate support. They have had a good run of football success using players that no PAC-12 team could admit. They are an absolute train wreck and there is no way they end up in a p5

Louisville says "hello".

 

[CallMeBruce]

Boise is literally one of the worst academic schools in the country and was seriously a junior college not too long ago. They have absolutely no television market, a small stadium and are located in a rural location with no corporate support. They have had a good run of football success using players that no PAC-12 team could admit. They are an absolute train wreck and there is no way they end up in a p5

Yeah, I don't know about most of this, but Boise is rural? I mean, it's not NYC, but it's definitely a city.

 

[CAHUSKY]

Yeah, I don't know about most of this, but Boise is rural? I mean, it's not NYC, but it's definitely a city.

Rural was a bit extreme. It's a city of 220,000 without a major population center anywhere in the vicinity. Boise is a great city but the university is a disaster. They are the 109th "largest" DMA

 

[CAHUSKY]

Louisville says "hello".

Boise has even worse academics, no athletic success beyond a few good football seasons, poorly funded athletic department and a minuscule DMA. Nothing like Louisville.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

If a nowhere school like BSU can achieve the success in football they enjoy,why can't we?
If we had their success I believe we would be the hottest commodity out there.
Correct that we would have been taken years ago.

 

[Slasher]

Yeah, I don't know about most of this, but Boise is rural? I mean, it's not NYC, but it's definitely a city.

It's tiny compared to other options.

Boise: 0.62M
Cincinnati: 2.21M
Connecticut: 3.60M (entire state)
Memphis: 1.37M
UCF (Orlando): 2.13M
USF (Tampa): 4.3M

 

[junglehusky]

Boise's football coach and I think AD left for greener pastures. They might continue being a MWC winner but maintaining their story on a national level is another thing.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Boise has even worse academics, no athletic success beyond a few good football seasons, poorly funded athletic department and a minuscule DMA. Nothing like Louisville.

Not for nothing, but BSU's basketball team has made pretty tremendous strides. They've made two of the last three NCAA tournaments, and were ranked at one point last year. They've gone 102-63 since Leon Rice took over. They have a lot of stuff working against them, but they have very strong football and pretty strong men's basketball, and those are two pretty big items in their favor.

 

[whaler11]

Boise State has a chance to be excellent this year.

 

[dayooper]

Boise's football coach and I think AD left for greener pastures. They might continue being a MWC winner but maintaining their story on a national level is another thing.

Former head football coach Chris Peterson took the Washington Husky job after Steve Sarkasian left UW for Southern Cal. Some thought Peterson was going to stay at BSU for his career, but he took the UW job after going 8-4 in 2013. His youngest son had health issues, but he seems to have recovered and was to start high school in fall 2014.

Link

 

[CAHUSKY]

Not for nothing, but BSU's basketball team has made pretty tremendous strides. They've made two of the last three NCAA tournaments, and were ranked at one point last year. They've gone 102-63 since Leon Rice took over. They have a lot of stuff working against them, but they have very strong football and pretty strong men's basketball, and those are two pretty big items in their favor.

I've spent quite a bit of time in Boise and have seen them play football every other year and basketball every year as a season ticket holder at Nevada. I'm very familiar with their entire athletic department. Its awful besides a few good football years and a couple of hoops years where they had an immediate exit from the tourney. I stand by my position that they will never get a Big12 invite.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I've spent quite a bit of time in Boise and have seen them play football every other year and basketball every year as a season ticket holder at Nevada. I'm very familiar with their entire athletic department. Its awful besides a few good football years and a couple of hoops years where they had an immediate exit from the tourney. I stand by my position that they will never get a Big12 invite.

I don't know what you're doing out there, but it sure isn't evaluating Boise State's athletic program reasonably. They've been FBS/1-A since 1996, and in that time, they're 189-53, with 10 bowl wins in 15 appearances, including 3 BCS bowl wins. That's not 'a few good football years.' You may be right that they won't get a Big 12 invite, but you're on drugs if you think their athletic success is limited to a few good football seasons.

 

[CAHUSKY]

I don't know what you're doing out there, but it sure isn't evaluating Boise State's athletic program reasonably. They've been FBS/1-A since 1996, and in that time, they're 189-53, with 10 bowl wins in 15 appearances, including 3 BCS bowl wins. That's not 'a few good football years.' You may be right that they won't get a Big 12 invite, but you're on drugs if you think their athletic success is limited to a few good football seasons.

Dude, two of my close friends played at Boise and were the top passing/receiving combo in school history for many years (granted, that was in the early 80's before they got really good). Believe me, I understand they are good at football. The rest of their athletic department is awful and poorly funded. They have had a couple of good hoops years but, in those years, they have been unceremoniously dispatched early in the tourney. They used to be a community college and their academics are beyond abysmal. They have no television market and a small stadium. I stand by my assertion that they will never be in the big 12.

If the question was are they good at football, the answer would be yes. If the question is will they be invited to the Big12, the answer is no.

 

[upstater]

If a nowhere school like BSU can achieve the success in football they enjoy,why can't we?
If we had their success I believe we would be the hottest commodity out there.
Correct that we would have been taken years ago.

Dip into the pool of Los Angeles players that no one else can admit to their schools, and you too can achieve football success. It's been done before : Colorado.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

If a nowhere school like BSU can achieve the success in football they enjoy,why can't we?
If we had their success I believe we would be the hottest commodity out there.
Correct that we would have been taken years ago.

They have been enjoying football success for decades , probably since WWII. Its their signature sport.

 

[SonsOfNutmeg]

Boise is literally one of the worst academic schools in the country and was seriously a junior college not too long ago. They have absolutely no television market, a small stadium and are located in a rural location with no corporate support. They have had a good run of football success using players that no PAC-12 team could admit. They are an absolute train wreck and there is no way they end up in a p5

So that's the key to success then, accept PAC-12 dummies to play football? Haha... No your right, I do remember Boise being a JC not too long ago, and yes- its basically the end of the earth as far as media landscape goes. The simple fact is in this football-dominant age, conferences care more about wins and losses (which = revenue) than they do academics or prestige.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Dude, two of my close friends played at Boise and were the top passing/receiving combo in school history for many years (granted, that was in the early 80's before they got really good). Believe me, I understand they are good at football. The rest of their athletic department is awful and poorly funded. They have had a couple of good hoops years but, in those years, they have been unceremoniously dispatched early in the tourney. They used to be a community college and their academics are beyond abysmal. They have no television market and a small stadium. I stand by my assertion that they will never be in the big 12.

If the question was are they good at football, the answer would be yes. If the question is will they be invited to the Big12, the answer is no.

But neither of those were the questions. The question was 'does Boise State offer anything but a few seasons of good football,' and the answer is very clearly yes.

 

[billybud]

Boise, in the last 15 seasons, has won more games then any other FBS team....167. Oklahoma is #2 with 161

 

[CAHUSKY]

But neither of those were the questions. The question was 'does Boise State offer anything but a few seasons of good football,' and the answer is very clearly yes.

Ok, a bunch of good football seasons. And virtually nothing else.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

They have been enjoying football success for decades , probably since WWII. Its their signature sport.

That did have success as a JUCU,than 1AA
I was a fanatical college Football Fan in the 1950's,and 1960's
Never heard of them as JUCO's got little press outside of their areas
Sort of like the Jess Dow powerhouses at Southern Connecticut
Outside of New Haven nobody cared
I did hear of Idaho, and Idaho State as my next door neighbor went to one of them on a football scholarship
Apparently they recruited Connecticut Kids

 

[B1GOSU]

http://newsok.com/article/5438498

Big 12 expansion: Why Nebraska, Missouri and A&M aren't returning to the land of the Longhorn Network
by Berry Tramel Modified: August 6, 2015 at 10:52 am • Published: August 6, 2015

The Big 12 has been cautious about expansion, and for good reason. Without obvious candidates, expansion is a polarizing debate.

West Virginia, TCU and Louisville were no-brainers.

The Big 12 should have invited all three, did invite two, and for the Big 12, that’s an excellent batting average. Better than you’d expect.

But two more schools are needed for the Big 12 to get back to its namesake, which might be necessary for the conference’s long-term health. Stay at 10, and forces outside the Big 12’s control could turn it into the Poison Ivy League. David Boren himself seems to believe so.

If necessary, then who? It’s sort of like U.S. expansion. If we had to add two states, there wouldn’t be any quick resolution. Same with the Big 12. Brigham Young is like Puerto Rico, clearly the next in line but arriving with some issues, not the least of which is tempered excitement. We’re not sure the Puerto Ricans even want to be a state, and we’re not sure BYU even wants to give up its independence.

And after that, clarity flees. Cincinnati, Central Florida, Houston, Connecticut, East Carolina. A long list of contenders. You think the Big 12 has trouble getting consensus on the concept of expansion, wait until the Big 12 tries to find agreement on a particular school.

I sense the Big 12 might be waiting on a pie-in-the-sky development. Manna from Heaven. I think Big 12 decision-makers could be waiting to see if all the former members stay content in their new digs.

Nebraska went to the Big Ten. Missouri and Texas A&M bolted to the SEC. Colorado scooted to the Pac-12. And you hear rumblings that all might not be rosy for the expatriates.

I don’t buy it. I think everyone goes through an adjustment to new environments, so why would our old pals the Cornhuskers, the Aggies, the Tigers and Buffaloes be any different? Having to play at Rutgers is nothing to be excited about. Having to navigate in a 14-team conference is a mess. But that doesn’t mean you want to go back to sharing a boardroom with Texas. That doesn’t mean you trade stability for instability. That doesn’t mean you’ll trade increased status for decreased status.

That’s the fundamental Big 12 problem. In almost every way, the Big 12 has an inferior status from its salad days of a few years ago.

Competitively, which we’ve short-circuited the world wide web writing about. That’s actually the quickest fix for the Big 12. Make the playoff. Win once you get there. A national title would solve a lot of ills.

Academically. The Big 12 lost some of its more distinguished academic members in NU, MU, A&M and CU. That isn’t lost amid the ivory towers, though we never think about that when debating TCU or Baylor for the national semifinals. And that isn’t at all an easy fix.

Collegially. Maybe the most important. These are not the 10 musketeers. In the Big 12, it’s not all for one and one for all. It’s everybody out for himself. Go back to the government landscape. The other power conferences are united states. The Big 12 is a loose collection of colonies.

Does anyone really think Nebraska or Missouri or A&M is coming back to the land of The Longhorn Network? The land where Baylor’s scheduling philosophy is dragging down the league’s reputation. The conference that has gone from leader to follower?

No doubt, 14-team conferences are unwieldy. They make tons of money if put together correctly, like the SEC and Big Ten, but they create disconnects.

Can anything be a good idea if it keeps Michigan from playing Minnesota for the Little Brown Jug every year?

Is it really a good development that Georgia and Alabama are scheduled only once between 2008 and 2020?

How can it be that Duke and Clemson, two original ACC members that share a state line and are separated by only 272 miles, play only twice between 2008 and 2023?

But those are minor irritants. Those pale in comparison to the Big 12, which in five years stunningly has fallen in status. The lack of quality leadership — or better yet, the lack of listening to quality leadership — on everything from a conference network to the admission of Louisville to the embracement of those goofy slogans has dropped Big 12 prestige below even that of the Big Eight in its last days.

The Big 12 remains firmly a Power 5 Conference. But the Big 12 has little to offer a university already in the Power 5.

I know Nebraska misses the Oklahoma series. I know Missouri misses the Big 12 Tournament in Kansas City. I know A&M misses the Thanksgiving tradition against Texas. But those are wistful events that can’t counter the current Big 12 malaise.

Nebraska’s academic status is secured in the Big Ten. Missouri has won the SEC East twice in three years in the league. A&M isn’t asking what it’s doing in the SEC, it’s asking what took so long to get there.

You can’t turn back the clock. Those schools aren’t coming back. If the Big 12 must expand, it’s going to have to look outside the Power 5.

 

[NYUConn]

http://newsok.com/article/5438498

Big 12 expansion: Why Nebraska, Missouri and A&M aren't returning to the land of the Longhorn Network
by Berry Tramel Modified: August 6, 2015 at 10:52 am • Published: August 6, 2015

The Big 12 has been cautious about expansion, and for good reason. Without obvious candidates, expansion is a polarizing debate.

West Virginia, TCU and Louisville were no-brainers.

The Big 12 should have invited all three, did invite two, and for the Big 12, that’s an excellent batting average. Better than you’d expect.

But two more schools are needed for the Big 12 to get back to its namesake, which might be necessary for the conference’s long-term health. Stay at 10, and forces outside the Big 12’s control could turn it into the Poison Ivy League. David Boren himself seems to believe so.

If necessary, then who? It’s sort of like U.S. expansion. If we had to add two states, there wouldn’t be any quick resolution. Same with the Big 12. Brigham Young is like Puerto Rico, clearly the next in line but arriving with some issues, not the least of which is tempered excitement. We’re not sure the Puerto Ricans even want to be a state, and we’re not sure BYU even wants to give up its independence.

And after that, clarity flees. Cincinnati, Central Florida, Houston, Connecticut, East Carolina. A long list of contenders. You think the Big 12 has trouble getting consensus on the concept of expansion, wait until the Big 12 tries to find agreement on a particular school.

I sense the Big 12 might be waiting on a pie-in-the-sky development. Manna from Heaven. I think Big 12 decision-makers could be waiting to see if all the former members stay content in their new digs.

Nebraska went to the Big Ten. Missouri and Texas A&M bolted to the SEC. Colorado scooted to the Pac-12. And you hear rumblings that all might not be rosy for the expatriates.

I don’t buy it. I think everyone goes through an adjustment to new environments, so why would our old pals the Cornhuskers, the Aggies, the Tigers and Buffaloes be any different? Having to play at Rutgers is nothing to be excited about. Having to navigate in a 14-team conference is a mess. But that doesn’t mean you want to go back to sharing a boardroom with Texas. That doesn’t mean you trade stability for instability. That doesn’t mean you’ll trade increased status for decreased status.

That’s the fundamental Big 12 problem. In almost every way, the Big 12 has an inferior status from its salad days of a few years ago.

Competitively, which we’ve short-circuited the world wide web writing about. That’s actually the quickest fix for the Big 12. Make the playoff. Win once you get there. A national title would solve a lot of ills.

Academically. The Big 12 lost some of its more distinguished academic members in NU, MU, A&M and CU. That isn’t lost amid the ivory towers, though we never think about that when debating TCU or Baylor for the national semifinals. And that isn’t at all an easy fix.

Collegially. Maybe the most important. These are not the 10 musketeers. In the Big 12, it’s not all for one and one for all. It’s everybody out for himself. Go back to the government landscape. The other power conferences are united states. The Big 12 is a loose collection of colonies.

Does anyone really think Nebraska or Missouri or A&M is coming back to the land of The Longhorn Network? The land where Baylor’s scheduling philosophy is dragging down the league’s reputation. The conference that has gone from leader to follower?

No doubt, 14-team conferences are unwieldy. They make tons of money if put together correctly, like the SEC and Big Ten, but they create disconnects.

Can anything be a good idea if it keeps Michigan from playing Minnesota for the Little Brown Jug every year?

Is it really a good development that Georgia and Alabama are scheduled only once between 2008 and 2020?

How can it be that Duke and Clemson, two original ACC members that share a state line and are separated by only 272 miles, play only twice between 2008 and 2023?

But those are minor irritants. Those pale in comparison to the Big 12, which in five years stunningly has fallen in status. The lack of quality leadership — or better yet, the lack of listening to quality leadership — on everything from a conference network to the admission of Louisville to the embracement of those goofy slogans has dropped Big 12 prestige below even that of the Big Eight in its last days.

The Big 12 remains firmly a Power 5 Conference. But the Big 12 has little to offer a university already in the Power 5.

I know Nebraska misses the Oklahoma series. I know Missouri misses the Big 12 Tournament in Kansas City. I know A&M misses the Thanksgiving tradition against Texas. But those are wistful events that can’t counter the current Big 12 malaise.

Nebraska’s academic status is secured in the Big Ten. Missouri has won the SEC East twice in three years in the league. A&M isn’t asking what it’s doing in the SEC, it’s asking what took so long to get there.

You can’t turn back the clock. Those schools aren’t coming back. If the Big 12 must expand, it’s going to have to look outside the Power 5.

we’re not sure BYU even wants to give up its independence

Really? Because Bronco Mendenhall is basically standing outside of conference headquarters with a boombox begging for acceptance.

 

[SAMCRO]

we’re not sure BYU even wants to give up its independence
Really? Because Bronco Mendenhall is basically standing outside of conference headquarters with a boombox begging for acceptance.

Bronco doesn't get a vote. Shoot, the AD doesn't get a vote. That is the Pres/BOT, or in BYU's case the "Town Elders" who make that call.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If the Big 12 adds 4 schools, does everyone still love Warde if we are not one of the 4 picked?

 

[junglehusky]

If the Big 12 adds 4 schools, does everyone still love Warde if we are not one of the 4 picked?

If 2 of them are MWC / BYU, and the other 2 added from the AAC are not Cincy or UCF, I think so. If they add BYU, Boise, Memphis and Houston it means they were never going to go east of WV in the first place.