Big Ten football

[businesslawyer]

About 5 of them explain the logic of those arguing with me.

Does ANYONE on this board disagree with my assertion that both Wisconsin and Ohio State were better off with Ohio State winning that game?

Yes, I disagree with your assertion. In fact, I think it's beyond crazy. Conference accomplishments was important in the Old Big East to stay in the club. The Big Ten is the club. No school has to worry about anything more than their own accomplishments.

 

[gioff23]

What he said (other than the typo).

 

[sdhusky]

Yes, I disagree with your assertion. In fact, I think it's beyond crazy. Conference accomplishments was important in the Old Big East to stay in the club. The Big Ten is the club. No school has to worry about anything more than their own accomplishments.

Do you agree with my assertion that non-competitive coaches and players gravitate toward B1G football? That if it was up to WI, instead of going to the Rose Bowl, they would just as happy with a participation medal?

 

[Irishfan]

Prove me wrong. Go back and look at conference title games where one team was playing for a national championship bid and the other team had nothing to play for. You should be able to prove it if you are right.

What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you. Re-read my post, while it sounds rediculous I think it's likely the Michigan players would lose on purpose (as long as it was good for the conference)

 

[Seaa Blue]

I'm sure even Conspiracy Kitty disagrees.

 

[Seaa Blue]

What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you. Re-read my post, while it sounds rediculous I think it's likely the Michigan players would lose on purpose (as long as it was good for the conference)

Wait a second.

 

[Irishfan]

Wait a second.

Prove us wrong. ( and don't call me Shirley)

 

[Stray_Dog]

Wow, This thread is representative of life wasted.

I like your style. Two of the three games you cite were decided by a field goal, but why leave that out. It may make a difference. The third was TCU vs Minny freaking sota. Not MSU, Not OSU, not Wisconsin, but Minnesota. Funny, when two of the better ranked teams played (MSU vs. Baylor), the Big10 team won. MSU beat a team you are complaining about being left out. That same MSU team lost to OSU by 12 points at home.

I could see your point until you insinuated that Wisconsin threw the game to help the Big10. That might be the dumbest thing I have ever seen you write.

Your post above made me think of this!
Can someone post the clip from Ruthless People, regarding - "This must be the dumbest man alive"? I can't do it on my current computer but I really think it is fitting if someone wants to post it! To nelsonmuntz, please for the love of God, just quit while your way, way, way behind!

 

[CallMeBruce]

1) I am simply pointing out the incentives. If you see the incentives as being different, feel free to correct me. Otherwise, I am right and you are wrong.
2) The assertion that schools try their darndest is easily provable. Simply look at the instances where a Top 2 team played a conference opponent in the last week, and see what the record in those games was.
3) There are multiple instances of suspect officiating in key games.
4) no other sport works this way.

Again, what is the incentive for the players - the ones who will actually determine who wins and who loses - to let the other team win? You keep ignoring this question, and I suspect it's because you're a troll simply looking to irritate people.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Again, what is the incentive for the players - the ones who will actually determine who wins and who loses - to let the other team win? You keep ignoring this question, and I suspect it's because you're a troll simply looking to irritate people.

Already answered this in the thread. RIF.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Yes, I disagree with your assertion. In fact, I think it's beyond crazy. Conference accomplishments was important in the Old Big East to stay in the club. The Big Ten is the club. No school has to worry about anything more than their own accomplishments.

This is the twilight zone of arguments. Coaches have come out and said that conferences fix games (see Mike Leach and Mark Mangino). Look at any game involving an SEC team and a non-P5 that is close late in the 3rd quarter. I only watched 10 minutes of Bowling Green/Tennessee and still saw the refs swallow their whistle on about 3 defensive pass interference penalties against Tennessee, including 1 in the end zone on 3 and forever that would have cut the Tennessee lead to 1 score. It was bad enough that BGU's coach blew a gasket and ran onto the field. And you are telling me that conference do not pay ANY ATTENTION AT ALL to who is winning which games?

Or are you saying that since the Big 10 is in the club, they aren't trying to win. Because that goes directly against the rest of your argument.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

That's a point I wouldn't argue against. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if officials were throwing flags to help the team that will improve the finances of their conference or whatever. Hard to prove, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if it was true.

I just don't think you're going to find that players are throwing games. I can't imagine a collection of 18-22 year olds are going to throw what could be their only chance at a conference championship. Systemic stuff is a different topic altogether.

College football is the only major sport where the officials are paid by a conference that has a rooting interest in the outcome of the game. If you want to be a big time college football ref, I believe you are almost completely dependent on the good graces of the conference you work for. Basketball has a somewhat similar problem, although I believe many officials work for multiple conferences so it is not quite as bad.

 

[Seaa Blue]

College football is the only major sport where the officials are paid by a conference that has a rooting interest in the outcome of the game.

That's nothing, what if they're soviet-era spies, undermining the foundation of our democracy... Starting with our football. Come to think of it, I think I might have something there.

 

[HistoryMajor]

Even by BY standards, this thread has turned into one of the most bizarre ever.

 

[Irishfan]

College football is the only major sport where the officials are paid by a conference that has a rooting interest in the outcome of the game. If you want to be a big time college football ref, I believe you are almost completely dependent on the good graces of the conference you work for. Basketball has a somewhat similar problem, although I believe many officials work for multiple conferences so it is not quite as bad.

This is why it is so difficult being an independent in college football. I figure it costs us between 3 and 10 points per game.

 

[CL82]

I'm sure even Conspiracy Kitty disagrees.

I'm not sure. After she read a half dozen of Nelson's post her hat popped clear off. She been staring at the screen ever since.

 

[TRest]

This is why it is so difficult being an independent in college football. I figure it costs us between 3 and 10 points per game.

Yes, ND never gets any calls.

 

[Irishfan]

Yes, ND never gets any calls.

I know, but staying independent is so important to us that we are willing to deal with the obvious downside.

 

[Adios]

Wow, This thread is representative of life wasted.

Ding. Ding. Ding. Say hello to ignore, someone. I can't be bothered with such stupidity anymore.

 

[dayooper]

Your argument is that because you think you are competitive and athletic, therefore no major program would play a big game differently even if the best thing for them would be a loss. And you know this because you coach middle school kids and have never been in a position to lose your school a million dollars or more. Got it.
.

No, I know this because I have played highly competitive sports. I know what college players think. I have been around college athletes, have coached college athletes, have had many family members who have been college athletes. I have played college athletics. If the players were asked to, that we would have heard about it. Yup, seniors who this was their last season are going to throw it. My guess is you have never set foot in a college athletic program. You don't know the work, time, blood, sweat, and tears. Maybe you have played a season of college football with a separated shoulder. Maybe you have played a game with a broken foot. Maybe you have put in hours of preparation into your season. My guess is you have not. Got it.

Better to be a has been than a never was. You would never know.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

No, I know this because I have played highly competitive sports. I know what college players think. I have been around college athletes, have coached college athletes, have had many family members who have been college athletes. I have played college athletics. If the players were asked to, that we would have heard about it. Yup, seniors who this was their last season are going to throw it. My guess is you have never set foot in a college athletic program. You don't know the work, time, blood, sweat, and tears. Maybe you have played a season of college football with a separated shoulder. Maybe you have played a game with a broken foot. Maybe you have put in hours of preparation into your season. My guess is you have not. Got it.

Better to be a has been than a never was. You would never know.

That was about as douchey a response as I have ever seen on this board, and Whaler posts here several times a day. If you weren't such a dick, you would have seen the post where I said that players don't throw games, I wouldn't put it past coaches or officials to put their finger on the scale though.

But I have been in the business world for a long time, and I have also seen lives ruined when people let pride cost their company money. Pride is a terrible influence on business decisions, and in case you haven't been paying attention, college football is a business.

 

[billybud]

The only deliberate throw that I've seen was the infamous "Gator Flop"...allowed the other team to score so that the Gator QB could get another shot at breaking a record.

Gator Flop:

 

[SAMCRO]

Prove me wrong. Go back and look at conference title games where one team was playing for a national championship bid and the other team had nothing to play for. You should be able to prove it if you are right.

1998 Texas A&M over Kansas St, knocking them out of championship game.
2007 Oklahoma upset Missouri knocking them out of BCS championship
2007 Pitt over #2 WVU knocking them out of championship game (not a CCG, but in effect the same end result).

 

[Husky25]

Surely UConn should have know it would have been better for the Big East to let West Virginia win in 2010.

 

[Hoophound]

Why? We aren't the only team to ever get curb stomped in a BCS game. The media just pretends we are. WVU just wasn't that good in 2010.