Big Ten football

[woomba]

So how much do you think the UConn AD made last year by throwing all those games?

 

[CallMeBruce]

Does any other sport in the world regularly have situations where both teams in a contest are better off if one of the teams wins?

Somebody doesn't watch the NBA.

In all seriousness, your characterization of that game is ludicrous. Even if they're not going to the playoffs, Wisconsin still wants to win a conference championship. That has value to a college football team. And beyond that, it's not like the university president is going to be able to fix a football game. The coach, who is more valuable if he wins, and the players, who don't get paid either way, are the ones who ultimately decide who wins the game.

And not only are you insinuating that Wisconsin players aren't going to play hard because it will potentially lead to the university administration making slightly more money, and the taxpayers getting a little bit of a break, but also that the CFP selection committee should discount the win because of it? You, sir, are on a level of your own.

 

[dayooper]

Does any other sport in the world regularly have situations where both teams in a contest are better off if one of the teams wins?

Absolutely. Any time there is a conference championship. If a team not likely to make the tourney is up against one that assuredly will, it is advantageous for the better team to lose.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Absolutely. Any time there is a conference championship. If a team not likely to make the tourney is up against one that assuredly will, it is advantageous for the better team to lose.

I assume you mean in basketball. The payoff of getting an extra team in the Dance is negligible to a major conference, particularly if that team is going to be an 11 or a 12 seed, which any team that needs to win its conference tournament to go to the Dance is by default. On the other hand, losing to an 18 or 19 win team right before the dance can cost a good team 1 or 2 seeds and significantly impact their potential to advance to the second weekend.

Wisconsin had absolutely nothing at stake in that game.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

They studied resumes and ratings and asked ESPN who they wanted, and landed on Ohio State.

The P5 consist of 4 conferences who have invested in a conference championship game, 1 conference who has not and an independent. If at the end of the season the best XII team has the same record as as each of the conference champions, the XII team is going to be left out every time.

 

[dayooper]

I assume you mean in basketball. The payoff of getting an extra team in the Dance is negligible to a major conference, particularly if that team is going to be an 11 or a 12 seed, which any team that needs to win its conference tournament to go to the Dance is by default. On the other hand, losing to an 18 or 19 win team right before the dance can cost a good team 1 or 2 seeds and significantly impact their potential to advance to the second weekend.

Wisconsin had absolutely nothing at stake in that game.

Apparently, you are not the type of person to have played at a high level of sports. To play at a high level, you must be a very competitive person. One that hates to lose. They did have something at stake, their pride. The pride of going to the Rose Bowl (if they have won). The pride of upsetting a team that everyone in the Big10 can't stand. A chance to increase your recruiting profile. A chance to do what any thoroughbred wants to do, perform in the biggest stage with the championship is on the line.

As a college athlete, I would have loved to play in that type of game, to compete against the best I would never have thrown any game. As a coach, every loss I get eats away at me. I have been apart of a State Chanpionship staff at one of the highest, most competitive divisions in the state. Even as a middle school coach, they eat away.

Just because it fits your meme of UConn should dump their football team, you shouldn't all over a group of kids and their coaches. That a very offensive thing to do.

 

[Irishfan]

Apparently, you are not the type of person to have played at a high level of sports. To play at a high level, you must be a very competitive person. One that hates to lose. They did have something at stake, their pride. The pride of going to the Rose Bowl (if they have won). The pride of upsetting a team that everyone in the Big10 can't stand. A chance to increase your recruiting profile. A chance to do what any thoroughbred wants to do, perform in the biggest stage with the championship is on the line.

As a college athlete, I would have loved to play in that type of game, to compete against the best I would never have thrown any game. As a coach, every loss I get eats away at me. I have been apart of a State Chanpionship staff at one of the highest, most competitive divisions in the state. Even as a middle school coach, they eat away.

Just because it fits your meme of UConn should dump their football team, you shouldn't all over a group of kids and their coaches. That a very offensive thing to do.

I am sure that in an effort to help the Big Ten, Michigan would intentionally lose to Michigan State and then follow that up with an intentional loss to Ohio State. Putting up with the abuse from Spartan and Buckeye fans would be worth it if they knew it was helping the conference. They are truly team players.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Apparently, you are not the type of person to have played at a high level of sports. To play at a high level, you must be a very competitive person. One that hates to lose. They did have something at stake, their pride. The pride of going to the Rose Bowl (if they have won). The pride of upsetting a team that everyone in the Big10 can't stand. A chance to increase your recruiting profile. A chance to do what any thoroughbred wants to do, perform in the biggest stage with the championship is on the line.

As a college athlete, I would have loved to play in that type of game, to compete against the best I would never have thrown any game. As a coach, every loss I get eats away at me. I have been apart of a State Chanpionship staff at one of the highest, most competitive divisions in the state. Even as a middle school coach, they eat away.

Just because it fits your meme of UConn should dump their football team, you shouldn't all over a group of kids and their coaches. That a very offensive thing to do.

This was a potpourri of message board drivel, throwing condescension and indignation along with unprovable resume claims of subject matter expertise. Bully for you.

Your argument is that because you think you are competitive and athletic, therefore no major program would play a big game differently even if the best thing for them would be a loss. And you know this because you coach middle school kids and have never been in a position to lose your school a million dollars or more. Got it.

I enjoy watching college football, and I think it is the most strategic of the major sports. College football is rotten to its core, and trails only international soccer in terms of corruption among major sports. It is a sport that permanently maims a large percentage of its participants, most of whom come from poor backgrounds. The sport is predatory and exclusionary, and has created a monopoly that has devalued the athletic programs of dozens of schools, including UConn. It maintains a bowl system that makes no sense at all and costs the schools, and the taxpayers that support those schools, millions of dollars in lost revenue. And they do this so a few hundred middle aged and old men can pull in huge salaries and hang out with rich boosters. So no, I would not put it past the major conferences to fix games given all the other crap the sport does.

This has happened in other sports by the way. There was a significant scandal in Sumo Wrestling about 20 years ago, because the system the sport used at the time actually rewarded wrestlers for cooperating with their opponents. So, not surprisingly, the wrestlers started cooperating and trading wins. It is pure naivety to think that those running these programs are too stupid to figure out what is best for their school. I suspect that they are very good at figuring out what is best for them and their school, and that is why they are coaching and running major college football teams and you are not.

If you want to figure out how people are going to act, don't argue pride and competitive spirit. All you need to do is look at their financial incentives.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I am sure that in an effort to help the Big Ten, Michigan would intentionally lose to Michigan State and then follow that up with an intentional loss to Ohio State. Putting up with the abuse from Spartan and Buckeye fans would be worth it if they knew it was helping the conference. They are truly team players.

Prove me wrong. Go back and look at conference title games where one team was playing for a national championship bid and the other team had nothing to play for. You should be able to prove it if you are right.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

And history has proven that the officials definitely know which team's victory benefits the conference. See Pitt/WVU around 2008 and Texas/Nebraska 2009.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Prove me wrong. Go back and look at conference title games where one team was playing for a national championship bid and the other team had nothing to play for. You should be able to prove it if you are right.

 

[itgoeslike]

This gets to what is unfortunately going to be an ongoing problem with the selection. The argument should be about which team accomplished more/played better over their 12 or 13 games. Unfortunately, we're stuck with "experts" and selectors who want to talk about who is "better" and who they would expect to win a heads up matchup. Once you turn it from primarily objective to primarily subective, the process won't work.

The BCS rankings (which was, in part, data driven) eroded influence and control. The CFP moved to restore much of the back room dealings. It's back to being political. At the end of the day, money always trumps the concept of fairness.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Prove me wrong. Go back and look at conference title games where one team was playing for a national championship bid and the other team had nothing to play for. You should be able to prove it if you are right.

If an unranked Michigan ever threw a game against Ohio St to that Ohio St could play in a National Championship Game/BCS bowl, Michigan's athletic and academic leaders would be lynched and hung along the trees on S State St. If the roles were reversed, the same would happen in Columbus. Hanging would be too civilized for Michigan St fans if the Spartans purposely lost a game to the Wolverines.

 

[sdhusky]

I could see your point until you insinuated that Wisconsin threw the game to help the Big10. That might be the dumbest thing I have ever seen you write.

You haven't read much. I don't think that even in the top 1000 of his dumbest posts.

 

[sdhusky]

If you want to figure out how people are going to act, don't argue pride and competitive spirit. All you need to do is look at their financial incentives.

How do you make money by posting 12000 times on the boneyard?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

How do you make money by posting 12000 times on the boneyard?

Message Board poster making fun of message board poster for being a message board poster. Got it.

 

[pj]

Prove me wrong. Go back and look at conference title games where one team was playing for a national championship bid and the other team had nothing to play for. You should be able to prove it if you are right.

So if a national title contender beats an also-ran, your point is proved that teams throw games?

 

[mets1090]

Fool proof way to "win" an argument.

1) State conspiracy theory that's impossible to prove wrong.
2) Demand that someone prove you wrong.
3) ????
4) Profit.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Fool proof way to "win" an argument.

1) State conspiracy theory that's impossible to prove wrong.
2) Demand that someone prove you wrong.
3) ????
4) Profit.

1) I am simply pointing out the incentives. If you see the incentives as being different, feel free to correct me. Otherwise, I am right and you are wrong.
2) The assertion that schools try their darndest is easily provable. Simply look at the instances where a Top 2 team played a conference opponent in the last week, and see what the record in those games was.
3) There are multiple instances of suspect officiating in key games.
4) no other sport works this way.

 

[mets1090]

1) I am simply pointing out the incentives. If you see the incentives as being different, feel free to correct me. Otherwise, I am right and you are wrong.
2) The assertion that schools try their darndest is easily provable. Simply look at the instances where a Top 2 team played a conference opponent in the last week, and see what the record in those games was.
3) There are multiple instances of suspect officiating in key games.
4) no other sport works this way.

That's a point I wouldn't argue against. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if officials were throwing flags to help the team that will improve the finances of their conference or whatever. Hard to prove, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if it was true.

I just don't think you're going to find that players are throwing games. I can't imagine a collection of 18-22 year olds are going to throw what could be their only chance at a conference championship. Systemic stuff is a different topic altogether.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Prove me wrong. Go back and look at conference title games where one team was playing for a national championship bid and the other team had nothing to play for. You should be able to prove it if you are right.

Below is a helpful link regarding the types and descriptions of most of the accepted logical fallacies. You should read up on this.

http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/ENGL1311/fallacies.htm

 

[nelsonmuntz]

That's a point I wouldn't argue against. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if officials were throwing flags to help the team that will improve the finances of their conference or whatever. Hard to prove, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if it was true.

I just don't think you're going to find that players are throwing games. I can't imagine a collection of 18-22 year olds are going to throw what could be their only chance at a conference championship. Systemic stuff is a different topic altogether.

I don't think players are throwing games either. I do think Coaches are aware of the various realities. It may be as simple as knowing how far they can push it for a win. Think of it like playing golf with your boss. You can't complete sandbag and shoot 10 strokes over your handicap or it will look bad. But you aren't going to do anything heroic to try and beat him if he is on track to shooting an 85 either.

Maybe you call a few more runs up the middle and screen passes, and maybe you really rein it in if you get up a TD or 2. A coach at this level can throw a game and maybe only 3 or 4 people might realize something was slightly strange about a few play calls.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Below is a helpful link regarding the types and descriptions of most of the accepted logical fallacies. You should read up on this.

http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/ENGL1311/fallacies.htm

About 5 of them explain the logic of those arguing with me.

Does ANYONE on this board disagree with my assertion that both Wisconsin and Ohio State were better off with Ohio State winning that game?

 

[31GuardTrap]

About 5 of them explain the logic of those arguing with me.

Does ANYONE on this board disagree with my assertion that both Wisconsin and Ohio State were better off with Ohio State winning that game?

You have to be kidding..
Ask the Wisconsin players. Go ahead.
Hey Badgers.....you guys were ok with just playing in the Outback Bowl right? I mean...the Rose Bowl would not have meant THAT much right?
A B1G Championship and The Rose Bowl......nah.

 

[kyleslamb]

About 5 of them explain the logic of those arguing with me.

Does ANYONE on this board disagree with my assertion that both Wisconsin and Ohio State were better off with Ohio State winning that game?

Everyone disagrees with that assertion. The Wisconsin administration may have been better off, but their team sure wasn't. A win by Wisconsin would have meant they would have been likely playing in a Big Six bowl.