WNBA -- 2023 Season

[Dillon77]

Marina Mabrey seems to like playing for Chicago Sky.

There are very few guards in offense mode that cut it as close to the screener or pick as Marina Mabrey, particularly when she's coming around for a handoff. There is not enough room for a cat, let alone a player to go over the top. And if that screen happens to be at the top of the key, you know she's going into the pull-up jumper, which - next to the step-back three -- is her most lethal shot. By the time the defense decides on a strategy, she'll hone in on that: look for the roll(er) or the player where the help is coming from. She hit Alanna Smith in the 4th quarter with just such a move and pass.

 

[ochoopsfan]

Way too early WNBA stats
50-40-90 club (50%fg, 40% 3pt shots, 90% FT)

Chelsea Gray/LVA-- 55%-- 53.8%-- 100%
Dojkic /SEA -- 66.7% --50%--100%
Karlie Samuelson/LAS--55.6%--66.7%--100%
Milic/MIN--50%--50%--100%
Nneka Ogwumike/LAS--61.9%--50%--100%
S.Sabally/DAL--51.2%--41.5%--94%

These stats will flow all season with a string of good games, and one bad game could drop you out very fast. But at the end of the season the ones who make these numbers are vary consistent at what they do.

By the way in the 2022 season there was no player who made this level, that played at least 20 games in the season.
Steph Dolson was the closest at 49.3%fg, 39.4% 3ptfg, and 90.5% FT

 

[JellyBean]

Haley Jones is really struggling, and Hull in her 2nd year having a bad start too. Crazy how Stanford players seem to not have much Wnba success aside the Owugmeke sisters.

Cough... Candice Wiggins had a pretty successful run in the WNBA. I can think of a few more Stanford players who had successful trips in the WNBA; Jamila Wideman, Vanessa Nygaard, Erica Mcall, just to name a few. With Haley, like a lot of rookies, it is just a matter of finding your groove, being confident, and giving your max effort out there, which Haley is doing. She will settle in and figure things out. Same with Hull. You are correct, Hull did struggle in a game this year. However, there is plently of games left and she will adjust to her role with the team.

 

[Rb335]

I think Wiggins had other issues if memory serves me correctly.

Didn’t Hull have a fantastic AU season and win an award to go with it or am i wrong?? I think she also had crazy 3pt shot numbers as well.

It’s too soon to tell about Hull, but she’s carried the reputation of a shooter. She’s shot 29/120 for her wnba career, 8/51 for 3. Those numbers will need to improve in this second season if she is to stick in the league.

I’m in favor of giving young players a chance, just look at players like Plum, Sabally, and Young who blossomed after a few years experience. That evolution could trickle down to role players like Hull in the league.

Not aligned with Alexis Morris about vets, but do hope expansion comes to provide more opportunities for rookies and young players.

 

[Tangential]

It’s too soon to tell about Hull, but she’s carried the reputation of a shooter. She’s shot 29/120 for her wnba career, 8/51 for 3. Those numbers will need to improve in this second season if she is to stick in the league.

I’m in favor of giving young players a chance, just look at players like Plum, Sabally, and Young who blossomed after a few years experience. That evolution could trickle down to role players like Hull in the league.

Not aligned with Alexis Morris about vets, but do hope expansion comes to provide more opportunities for rookies and young players.

I still think that Laney & Copper are much better examples (especially compared to Sabally). I know that ppg is only one stat, but I don't want to further convolute (and none of the below are point guards or posts with huge apg, rpg, or bpg):

Plum's 1st 4 yrs: 8.5, 9.5, 8.6, & 14.8;
Young: 6.6, 11.0, 12.2, 15.9;
Sabally (only 3 prior to this yr): 13.9, 11.9, 11.3;

Laney: 2.9, 1.0, 2.7, 5.6;
Copper: 6.2, 6.7, 7.1, 6.7 (relatively no upward arc)

Laney (yrs 5 through 7): 17.2, 16.8, 11.2 (injured)

Copper (yrs 5 through 7): 14.9, 14.4, 15.7

Young & Plum were #1 overall picks & Sabally was #2, so they had a longer leash as well.

So, I guess I'm doing a horrible job of asking my question and tying it in to the current batch of newbies that aren't setting the world on fire out of the gate. I don't think there was ever any real consideration of waiving Plum, Young, or Sabally; but how did the 2 Scarlet Knights stay in the WNBA (Laney actually was 5 yrs in averaging no higher than 5.6 ppg due to missing a full year -- yes, she exploded in the wubble, but how did she survive to get there?) and how should that apply to current 1st, 2nd, 3rd year players?

 

[willtalk]

I believe Plums averages were pulled down considerable by her horrible first year production. I rewatched her first year games out of curiosity and was surprised what I found. It appeared that the players on every opposing team focused on making sure she was stopped. They constantly doubled or often even tripled her. I believe they were impelled by the over the top publicity she was getting before she even played a single game. Had she been treated like a normal rookie, or even a regular first round pick she would not have struggled so much. Its hard enough for any rookie, but the defensive attention she recieved her first season was unreal.

 

[JellyBean]

I believe Plums averages were pulled down considerable by her horrible first year production. I rewatched her first year games out of curiosity and was surprised what I found. It appeared that the players on every opposing team focused on making sure she was stopped. They constantly doubled or often even tripled her. I believe they were impelled by the over the top publicity she was getting before she even played a single game. Had she been treated like a normal rookie, or even a regular first round pick she would not have struggled so much. Its hard enough for any rookie, but the defensive attention she recieved her first season was unreal.

Good points. Plus, she was dealing with ankle & leg injuries in that rookie season, which cut into her playing time. Also, she was putting a lot of pressure on herself to live up to her college status and being a #1 pick. After that first part of the season, she found her groove and wasn't thinking as much, she just played and it showed. Her confidence was there again. That is how I feel about some of the rookies this year, like the Haley Jones of the world. They just have to play. Don't think about a missed shot, bad pass, missed rebound, blah, blah, blah. Just play. Know that they have the skills and confidence to play at this level. And if they are only getting 5-15 minutes a game, make the most of those minutes.

 

[bbsamjj]

I still think that Laney & Copper are much better examples (especially compared to Sabally). I know that ppg is only one stat, but I don't want to further convolute (and none of the below are point guards or posts with huge apg, rpg, or bpg):

Plum's 1st 4 yrs: 8.5, 9.5, 8.6, & 14.8;
Young: 6.6, 11.0, 12.2, 15.9;
Sabally (only 3 prior to this yr): 13.9, 11.9, 11.3;

Laney: 2.9, 1.0, 2.7, 5.6;
Copper: 6.2, 6.7, 7.1, 6.7 (relatively no upward arc)

Laney (yrs 5 through 7): 17.2, 16.8, 11.2 (injured)

Copper (yrs 5 through 7): 14.9, 14.4, 15.7

Young & Plum were #1 overall picks & Sabally was #2, so they had a longer leash as well.

So, I guess I'm doing a horrible job of asking my question and tying it in to the current batch of newbies that aren't setting the world on fire out of the gate. I don't think there was ever any real consideration of waiving Plum, Young, or Sabally; but how did the 2 Scarlet Knights stay in the WNBA (Laney actually was 5 yrs in averaging no higher than 5.6 ppg due to missing a full year -- yes, she exploded in the wubble, but how did she survive to get there?) and how should that apply to current 1st, 2nd, 3rd year players?

Laney was in fact waived by Indiana right before the Wubble season, before Atlanta and Coach Nikki Collen picked her up to help with perimeter defense because Tiffany Hayes wasn't going to FL. They thought they were getting a defensive stopper, but Collen saw Laney in practice keep hitting shots, and basically gave her the green light to keep taking them until she missed.

It's a very unique story: Rewriting her own scouting report, Betnijah Laney takes the WNBA by surprise

 

[MilfordHusky]

Lessee . . . Maya, Whalen, Big Syl, Simone, . . . Brunson?

Yep. For several seasons, Brunson was the leading rebounder in WNBA history. She is also still the only player with FIVE rings. I'd vote for her for Springfield.

 

[MilfordHusky]

And they pickup Johannes in the next couple of days. Defense is starting to come together.
When JJ gets healthy, bone spurs, this team will be very good.

In some places, Marine Johannes is known as Magic Johannes. She's really good.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Yeah, right. In my opinion, they lost 5 of their top 6 and 6 of their top 8 players from last year's team. They're actually 3-1, but clearly ranked #5 in my power rankings. None of the other 7 teams (6 through12) are close to their backcourt trio (whether you play 3 guards or a wing at 3); Evans is showing signs of improvement and A Smith & E Williams look better than expected.

After watching Koné, I am in disbelief that she was cut. No excuses -- number's game or otherwise. I know quite a few people have mentioned her on these boards for a couple years and baggerbob, JellyBean, and I lamented the decision at the time. She might be turnover prone, foul prone, have crafty offensive players take advantage of her defensive aggressiveness this year, but it would take 2 minutes of watching her for anybody that knows hoops to clearly see that she definitely has "it." She is 20 now and I'd be surprised if she's not an all-star by 2025. How did she last until the 29th pick?

I saw Kone in international play and thought she was really, really good.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Way too early WNBA stats
50-40-90 club (50%fg, 40% 3pt shots, 90% FT)

Chelsea Gray/LVA-- 55%-- 53.8%-- 100%
Dojkic /SEA -- 66.7% --50%--100%
Karlie Samuelson/LAS--55.6%--66.7%--100%
Milic/MIN--50%--50%--100%
Nneka Ogwumike/LAS--61.9%--50%--100%
S.Sabally/DAL--51.2%--41.5%--94%

These stats will flow all season with a string of good games, and one bad game could drop you out very fast. But at the end of the season the ones who make these numbers are vary consistent at what they do.

By the way in the 2022 season there was no player who made this level, that played at least 20 games in the season.
Steph Dolson was the closest at 49.3%fg, 39.4% 3ptfg, and 90.5% FT

Jackie Young lags in FT %, but her overall line is a crazy 62/57/73.

 

[Tangential]

Laney was in fact waived by Indiana right before the Wubble season, before Atlanta and Coach Nikki Collen picked her up to help with perimeter defense because Tiffany Hayes wasn't going to FL. They thought they were getting a defensive stopper, but Collen saw Laney in practice keep hitting shots, and basically gave her the green light to keep taking them until she missed.

It's a very unique story: Rewriting her own scouting report, Betnijah Laney takes the WNBA by surprise

That's the kind of interesting story for which I was looking. Thanks.

Another player who had a great relationship with Collen and thrived under her was Chennedy Carter ... her next 4 coaches over the following 2 years, not so much. She averaged 17.4 & 14.2 ppg her 1st 2 years on decent shooting for a guard, finishing 2nd in ROY voting. So sometimes a great rookie campaign (which is hard to accomplish) doesn't ensure a great career -- of course it doesn't help if you aren't cheering for your team, feud with the saintly Courtney Williams, and complain about PT at half-time for a struggling squad.

On the other hand, your statement that Copper steadily improved until her breakout (5th year) isn't supported by stats whatsoever. Her ppg were stagnant, her FG% was better her 1st 2 years than the next 2 and her turnovers were higher in years 3 & 4 relative to 1 & 2. Kah had a year 5 (somewhat similar to Laney's 5th & Bri Jones's 4th year) that more than doubled her best year of her 1st 4 seasons in ppg, spg, apg, and almost double in rpg, while shooting 10% higher from the field than the previous 2 seasons. Any similar stories for her impetus for year 5? Was she teetering on the edge as well?

 

[Tangential]

I saw Kone in international play and thought she was really, really good.

Agreed. She might have a mistake-laden rookie year (she's only 20), but she is a can't miss player.

 

[ochoopsfan]

Jackie Young lags in FT %, but her overall line is a crazy 62/57/73.

Griner is fractionaly under on the FT percentage, at 89.5%. She has one 3 pointer that she made so she has room to miss one 3 pt shot for the rest of the season.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I might be off base, but I think part of Plum's early struggles in the league is that Laimbeer changed her role on the team every single year. Kinda hard to settle into a career when that happens. The year she won 6th player of the year she finally seemed to find her groove, but the next season Hammon really set her free.

 

[bbsamjj]

That's the kind of interesting story for which I was looking. Thanks.

Another player who had a great relationship with Collen and thrived under her was Chennedy Carter ... her next 4 coaches over the following 2 years, not so much. She averaged 17.4 & 14.2 ppg her 1st 2 years on decent shooting for a guard, finishing 2nd in ROY voting. So sometimes a great rookie campaign (which is hard to accomplish) doesn't ensure a great career -- of course it doesn't help if you aren't cheering for your team, feud with the saintly Courtney Williams, and complain about PT at half-time for a struggling squad.

On the other hand, your statement that Copper steadily improved until her breakout (5th year) isn't supported by stats whatsoever. Her ppg were stagnant, her FG% was better her 1st 2 years than the next 2 and her turnovers were higher in years 3 & 4 relative to 1 & 2. Kah had a year 5 (somewhat similar to Laney's 5th & Bri Jones's 4th year) that more than doubled her best year of her 1st 4 seasons in ppg, spg, apg, and almost double in rpg, while shooting 10% higher from the field than the previous 2 seasons. Any similar stories for her impetus for year 5? Was she teetering on the edge as well?

What I believe happened for Copper is that with the Deshields injuries in 2020, she finally got a chance to start and play significant minutes. She went from averaging around 16mpg to 31mpg in one season. And she stepped up to the challenge.

 

[toad455]

The immediate need for WNBA expansion

A record-low number of draft picks coupled with a slew of veterans not making rosters raises the alarm for expansion in the WNBA.

www.beyondwomenssports.com

 

[Tangential]

The immediate need for WNBA expansion

A record-low number of draft picks coupled with a slew of veterans not making rosters raises the alarm for expansion in the WNBA.

www.beyondwomenssports.com

Like many, I would welcome expanded rosters and teams, but understand that the current CBA impacts the former and there are many factors that need to be investigated, impacting the latter.

One expansion that I have strongly advocated is minutes per game. Men's college basketball has been 40 min. & the NBA 48 for as long as I can remember, so why not do the same for women's hoops? It would lead to a need for expanded rosters, provide more playing time for starters an/or bench players resulting in better statistics and more time for players to improve and be fairly evaluated, and produce higher scores, which I believe would be more appealing psychologically to potential viewers. The media timeouts could remain 1 per quarter, so the total time wouldn't increase too much.

 

[Tangential]

I wonder if McCowan's injury is worse than originally anticipated or if they just want to have a backup post. Rest-of-Season is often a misnomer as Burrell (& others previously) was waived 2 days after signing hers.

 

[cancontent]

I wonder if McCowan's injury is worse than originally anticipated or if they just want to have a backup post. Rest-of-Season is often a misnomer as Burrell (& others previously) was waived 2 days after signing hers.

Had the same thought. If so, that's too bad as I thought McCowan came into her own last season and was hoping to see what she'd do this year.

 

[Tangential]

Had the same thought. If so, that's too bad as I thought McCowan came into her own last season and was hoping to see what she'd do this year.

100%. She was misused in Indy (shocking) and was becoming a difference maker for Dallas. Her moves down low are so efficient and it would have been (will be?) fun to see her, DeShields, Ogunbowale, Howard, & Sabally play together.

 

[cancontent]

100%. She was misused in Indy (shocking) and was becoming a difference maker for Dallas. Her moves down low are so efficient and it would have been (will be?) fun to see her, DeShields, Ogunbowale, Howard, & Sabally play together.

I'd go with "will be" as it puts more positive energy out there to make it happen.

 

[Geew1992]

Look what’s trending in the W

 

[ochoopsfan]

You have to be tough to make it in NY