The remaining field demonstrates the value of sticking with a coach | The Boneyard

The remaining field demonstrates the value of sticking with a coach

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I invite you to look for yourself. The evidence is pretty much irrefutable. Coaches are constantly adapting, evolving, modifying, consulting, and experimenting. The things that work with one group of players don't with a different one, the recruiting pitches that convert some fail to persuade others, and the philosophies that were progressive when you first started become antiquated by the time you can brag about them. It's the ultimate life simulation because it's so all-encompassing. Coaches don't describe coaches as bad coaches for the same reason therapists don't describe patients as being bad at living.

The thing about coaching a college basketball team is that your employment status at any given time is strongly contingent on pure luck. Variables such as whether your players are good can strongly influence how people feel about you as a coach or even a person. Then there's experience. Coach K is a great coach. He was not a great coach at 25 and hopefully he will not be a great coach at 95. Plausible explanations for this evolution include measures of his authority, diplomacy, emotional state, processing speed, and organization. All of these traits are perpetually in flux and all of them are motivated by our interactions with other people.

Suffice to say, when a coach does not perform to his fullest potential, it's worth re-examining whether the operation at large - which can trickle from the president to the AD to the fans - has played a role in accelerating the demise of its investment. For many of the programs headlining the second weekend of the tournament, resisting the urge to pursue a quick fix during times of uncertainty proved invaluable to maximizing the reach of the team and the school. Loyalty, in their case, did not entail the mindless repetition of erroneous practice. Instead, it induced the painful refinements of systems, allowing the successes of prior years to be re-discovered as easily as the pitfalls were avoided. The caliber of supervision afforded to these coaches yielded a level of stability that is simply not viable at institutions where the coach is unsupported:

Leonard Hamilton - Four straight years without a tournament appearance (2012-16) to the Elite Eight at age 69.

Bruce Weber - Two straight years without a postseason appearance (2014-16) back to the Elite Eight at age 61.

Peter Moser - Finished 10th, 7th, 10th, 6th, 8th, and 5th in his league before breaking through to the Elite Eight at age 49.

Bob Huggins - 30-35 at West Virginia from 2012-14 before righting the ship and taking his program to three sweet sixteens in four years.

Jim Boeheim - Went four straight years without making a tournament game, including missing altogether in 2007 and 2008, before beginning an all-time great run the next year at age 63.

John Beilein - Won only two tournament games in his first five years at Michigan before breaking through in 2013 at age 60.

Matt Painter - Missed the tournament for two straight years from 2012-14 before before punching his second straight sweet sixteen bid this season at age 47.

Jay Wright - Lost 45 games from 2010-13 before losing just 21 over the next five seasons.

Danny Hurley - TBD

If he turns out to be Buzz Williams, I'm OK with that. That's the point. Buzz Williams isn't anything but a good coach at the age of 45. Asking for more can be tricky.
 

UConnNick

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I invite you to look for yourself. The evidence is pretty much irrefutable. Coaches are constantly adapting, evolving, modifying, consulting, and experimenting. The things that work with one group of players don't with a different one, the recruiting pitches that convert some fail to persuade others, and the philosophies that were progressive when you first started become antiquated by the time you can brag about them. It's the ultimate life simulation because it's so all-encompassing. Coaches don't describe coaches as bad coaches for the same reason therapists don't describe patients as being bad at living.

The thing about coaching a college basketball team is that your employment status at any given time is strongly contingent on pure luck. Variables such as whether your players are good can strongly influence how people feel about you as a coach or even a person. Then there's experience. Coach K is a great coach. He was not a great coach at 25 and hopefully he will not be a great coach at 95. Plausible explanations for this evolution include measures of his authority, diplomacy, emotional state, processing speed, and organization. All of these traits are perpetually in flux and all of them are motivated by our interactions with other people.

Suffice to say, when a coach does not perform to his fullest potential, it's worth re-examining whether the operation at large - which can trickle from the president to the AD to the fans - has played a role in accelerating the demise of its investment. For many of the programs headlining the second weekend of the tournament, resisting the urge to pursue a quick fix during times of uncertainty proved invaluable to maximizing the reach of the team and the school. Loyalty, in their case, did not entail the mindless repetition of erroneous practice. Instead, it induced the painful refinements of systems, allowing the successes of prior years to be re-discovered as easily as the pitfalls were avoided. The caliber of supervision afforded to these coaches yielded a level of stability that is simply not viable at institutions where the coach is unsupported:

Leonard Hamilton - Four straight years without a tournament appearance (2012-16) to the Elite Eight at age 69.

Bruce Weber - Two straight years without a postseason appearance (2014-16) back to the Elite Eight at age 61.

Peter Moser - Finished 10th, 7th, 10th, 6th, 8th, and 5th in his league before breaking through to the Elite Eight at age 49.

Bob Huggins - 30-35 at West Virginia from 2012-14 before righting the ship and taking his program to three sweet sixteens in four years.

Jim Boeheim - Went four straight years without making a tournament game, including missing altogether in 2007 and 2008, before beginning an all-time great run the next year at age 63.

John Beilein - Won only two tournament games in his first five years at Michigan before breaking through in 2013 at age 60.

Matt Painter - Missed the tournament for two straight years from 2012-14 before before punching his second straight sweet sixteen bid this season at age 47.

Jay Wright - Lost 45 games from 2010-13 before losing just 21 over the next five seasons.

Danny Hurley - TBD

If he turns out to be Buzz Williams, I'm OK with that. That's the point. Buzz Williams isn't anything but a good coach at the age of 45. Asking for more can be tricky.

I have no idea what your point is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're arguing we shouldn't have given up on Ollie, and Hurley may be another Buzz Williams.
 

willie99

Loving life & enjoying the ride, despite the bumps
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Experience is the world's greatest teacher, that's as accurate a proverb as any
 
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Your analysis is flawed due to survivorship bias. There are other numerous examples of where an elite program got rid of an underperforming coach and that coach has never lived up to hype since. I think the reality is, when your program is in freefall (which we were) and fans and players run for the doors (which they did), you don't have the luxury of engaging in a $3m per year academic exercise to see if your tiger can change his stripes.
 
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I invite you to look for yourself. The evidence is pretty much irrefutable. Coaches are constantly adapting, evolving, modifying, consulting, and experimenting. The things that work with one group of players don't with a different one, the recruiting pitches that convert some fail to persuade others, and the philosophies that were progressive when you first started become antiquated by the time you can brag about them. It's the ultimate life simulation because it's so all-encompassing. Coaches don't describe coaches as bad coaches for the same reason therapists don't describe patients as being bad at living.

The thing about coaching a college basketball team is that your employment status at any given time is strongly contingent on pure luck. Variables such as whether your players are good can strongly influence how people feel about you as a coach or even a person. Then there's experience. Coach K is a great coach. He was not a great coach at 25 and hopefully he will not be a great coach at 95. Plausible explanations for this evolution include measures of his authority, diplomacy, emotional state, processing speed, and organization. All of these traits are perpetually in flux and all of them are motivated by our interactions with other people.

Suffice to say, when a coach does not perform to his fullest potential, it's worth re-examining whether the operation at large - which can trickle from the president to the AD to the fans - has played a role in accelerating the demise of its investment. For many of the programs headlining the second weekend of the tournament, resisting the urge to pursue a quick fix during times of uncertainty proved invaluable to maximizing the reach of the team and the school. Loyalty, in their case, did not entail the mindless repetition of erroneous practice. Instead, it induced the painful refinements of systems, allowing the successes of prior years to be re-discovered as easily as the pitfalls were avoided. The caliber of supervision afforded to these coaches yielded a level of stability that is simply not viable at institutions where the coach is unsupported:

Leonard Hamilton - Four straight years without a tournament appearance (2012-16) to the Elite Eight at age 69.

Bruce Weber - Two straight years without a postseason appearance (2014-16) back to the Elite Eight at age 61.

Peter Moser - Finished 10th, 7th, 10th, 6th, 8th, and 5th in his league before breaking through to the Elite Eight at age 49.

Bob Huggins - 30-35 at West Virginia from 2012-14 before righting the ship and taking his program to three sweet sixteens in four years.

Jim Boeheim - Went four straight years without making a tournament game, including missing altogether in 2007 and 2008, before beginning an all-time great run the next year at age 63.

John Beilein - Won only two tournament games in his first five years at Michigan before breaking through in 2013 at age 60.

Matt Painter - Missed the tournament for two straight years from 2012-14 before before punching his second straight sweet sixteen bid this season at age 47.

Jay Wright - Lost 45 games from 2010-13 before losing just 21 over the next five seasons.

Danny Hurley - TBD

If he turns out to be Buzz Williams, I'm OK with that. That's the point. Buzz Williams isn't anything but a good coach at the age of 45. Asking for more can be tricky.
Were any of the coaches you mentioned in crappy basketball conferences, and set three year records by the number of embarrassing 20 and 30 point blowout losses at the hands of crappy mid major teams? And how many of those coaches after winning a national championship two years before found themselves under investigation by the NCAA, had surprising losses to teams like Notheastern and Wagner, had a slew of transfers, and to top it off had a $15 million contract over three or four years?

Congrats on authoring the first stupid post I've seen since Coach Hurley signed with UConn.
 
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Not one of your best, Champs. Whether you intend it or not, the implication is clear that KO was a victim of indifferent support. I submit he was the victim of intransigence, a function of an early success vastly disproportionate to anything his efforts warranted. After his NC, he just ceased to grow, to be open to any advice or support. He would be a tragic figure in the classical sense if he were any longer capable of introspection. DH, by contrast, is a man still very much on his odyssey. Like many here, I feel an excitement to join in his quest, even as a mere observer. His arrival accentuates what a bovine dullness these past two years of UConn basketball have been.
 
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I have no idea what your point is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're arguing we shouldn't have given up on Ollie, and Hurley may be another Buzz Williams.
Thanks for asking because i am not sure what and much of what i think he was saying is false
 
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For coaches it comes down to trends. Ollie started like a house on fire. You could cynically argue no where to go but down, but that's not truly accurate. With what he was being paid , to expect top 3 conference finishes and tournament appearances given the resources and history of the program, were not unreasonable expectations. We were trending awful under him 16-17, followed by, 14-17, ,with record number of blowout losses, embarrassing performances on national TV, transfers galore etc.

Ollie is young enough to bounce back like a Bruce Webber somewhere else but he is doing to have to rededicate himself to his craft and make changes. We've heard he wanted to be liked by the players while also hearing he had to be restrained from fighting someone. Ideally he goes out west amd works his way back up the ladder of he doesn't go to the pros.

Hurley on the other hand is trending up career wise. Each stop a bigger job than the previous one while taking them to greater heights than they had experienced. I really believe he can have this squad dancing next year if Jalen comes back.
 
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I think someone’s off his mess. Or it’s Ollie’s mom. Every one of those guys but the Loyola guy was a proven head coach. And Loyola is probably playing in the NIT is Wichita didn’t move to the AAC this season.
 
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When your team is in the AAC and expansion is on the horizon, unfortunately you can't be patient
 
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For coaches it comes down to trends. Ollie started like a house on fire. You could cynically argue no where to go but down, but that's not truly accurate. With what he was being paid , to expect top 3 conference finishes and tournament appearances given the resources and history of the program, were not unreasonable expectations. We were trending awful under him 16-17, followed by, 14-17, ,with record number of blowout losses, embarrassing performances on national TV, transfers galore etc.

Ollie is young enough to bounce back like a Bruce Webber somewhere else but he is doing to have to rededicate himself to his craft and make changes. We've heard he wanted to be liked by the players while also hearing he had to be restrained from fighting someone. Ideally he goes out west amd works his way back up the ladder of he doesn't go to the pros.

Hurley on the other hand is trending up career wise. Each stop a bigger job than the previous one while taking them to greater heights than they had experienced. I really believe he can have this squad dancing next year if Jalen comes back.
Heard he had to be restrained from fighting someone or actually did get in a fist fight with Miller and a player?
 
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I have no idea how KO was behind closed doors or how the players really feel about him, but you would be hard pressed to point out a single example of on-court coaching THIS ENTIRE SEASON. Seriously, it was that bad. Teams would scout ahead because UConn was so easy to play against. That says enough.
 
C

Chief00

I invite you to look for yourself. The evidence is pretty much irrefutable. Coaches are constantly adapting, evolving, modifying, consulting, and experimenting. The things that work with one group of players don't with a different one, the recruiting pitches that convert some fail to persuade others, and the philosophies that were progressive when you first started become antiquated by the time you can brag about them. It's the ultimate life simulation because it's so all-encompassing. Coaches don't describe coaches as bad coaches for the same reason therapists don't describe patients as being bad at living.

The thing about coaching a college basketball team is that your employment status at any given time is strongly contingent on pure luck. Variables such as whether your players are good can strongly influence how people feel about you as a coach or even a person. Then there's experience. Coach K is a great coach. He was not a great coach at 25 and hopefully he will not be a great coach at 95. Plausible explanations for this evolution include measures of his authority, diplomacy, emotional state, processing speed, and organization. All of these traits are perpetually in flux and all of them are motivated by our interactions with other people.

Suffice to say, when a coach does not perform to his fullest potential, it's worth re-examining whether the operation at large - which can trickle from the president to the AD to the fans - has played a role in accelerating the demise of its investment. For many of the programs headlining the second weekend of the tournament, resisting the urge to pursue a quick fix during times of uncertainty proved invaluable to maximizing the reach of the team and the school. Loyalty, in their case, did not entail the mindless repetition of erroneous practice. Instead, it induced the painful refinements of systems, allowing the successes of prior years to be re-discovered as easily as the pitfalls were avoided. The caliber of supervision afforded to these coaches yielded a level of stability that is simply not viable at institutions where the coach is unsupported:

Leonard Hamilton - Four straight years without a tournament appearance (2012-16) to the Elite Eight at age 69.

Bruce Weber - Two straight years without a postseason appearance (2014-16) back to the Elite Eight at age 61.

Peter Moser - Finished 10th, 7th, 10th, 6th, 8th, and 5th in his league before breaking through to the Elite Eight at age 49.

Bob Huggins - 30-35 at West Virginia from 2012-14 before righting the ship and taking his program to three sweet sixteens in four years.

Jim Boeheim - Went four straight years without making a tournament game, including missing altogether in 2007 and 2008, before beginning an all-time great run the next year at age 63.

John Beilein - Won only two tournament games in his first five years at Michigan before breaking through in 2013 at age 60.

Matt Painter - Missed the tournament for two straight years from 2012-14 before before punching his second straight sweet sixteen bid this season at age 47.

Jay Wright - Lost 45 games from 2010-13 before losing just 21 over the next five seasons.

Danny Hurley - TBD

If he turns out to be Buzz Williams, I'm OK with that. That's the point. Buzz Williams isn't anything but a good coach at the age of 45. Asking for more can be tricky.

Very good points - but if this is intended to relate to KO - he needs to demonstrate the ability to change and make adjustments both on and off the court.
 
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If every coach put the level of effort and dedication into his/her craft that Champs puts into each and every post, there would be substantially fewer coach firings.
 

HuskyHawk

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Very good points - but if this is all relates to KO, possibly - but he needs to demonstrate the ability to change and make adjustments both on and off the court.

Exactly the issue. He wasn’t learning. He wasn’t improving and fine tuning his approach. He did the same thing over and over and sat there with his head in his hands and wondered why it didn’t work. Never was there a coach who knew less but was convinced he knew everything.
 
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Probably over time KO would learn and improve. Unfortunately, the loss of recruits, loss of players, firing of Miller, reports of partying and not visiting recruits, distancing of Calhoun, points to a toxic climate that has less to do with X’s and O’s that could improve over time and more to do with personality flaws and work ethic that is more difficult to change.
 

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