Prov. Journal: Basketball Schools Insist Boise Must Come First, Not Ucf,uh,smu

[Bootsthemonkey]

There is something that bothers the hell out of me here. Granted, if the catholics want to play hardbnall on this, I guess they have the right. After all, they have been nice enough to take their share of conference revenues (even though only a couple of schools from their faction actually earned anything) all of these years so, again, they are entitled to some decision making here.

What possible good could it do however to make this information public? What we do know is that if we don't find replacements for Pitt, Cuse and WVU soon, there won't be a football conference to save. If Boise St knows we are dead without them, they hold all of the cards and can demand anything they want (the BE pays their MWC departure fees, gives them additional revenues, lets them choose what home games they have, reimburses them for all travel expenses, etc.... If this is the catholic members' stance and the world now knows this, all remaining football members of the conference just got f#&ked by their non football playing conference mates.

I agree it's damaging but at least it gets out in the open what everyone already knows - that non-football members are dictating matters that pertain to football. This is what I can't stand about the setup. People can disagree with me all they want and that's fine. But I believe this is going to continue as a problem as long as these two different type of institutions continue to battle over who gets to steer the ship. The FB schools and BB schools do not have common interests.

 

[Rumrunner]

I don't think it is a big secret that Kevin McNamara provides a voice for PC. He is a very good, credible journalist.

Since when does a reporter from a newspaper who doesn't quote sources speak for the conference or accurately portrays what the conference is considering? Unless I'm missing something from the article.

 

[TRest]

The full story on the paper's website says one of the hoops AD's (unnamed) admits that Boise has to come in first.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

To play devil's advocate, if the content of the article isn't the case, what exactly is the hold up? The decision was supposedly made a bit more than two weeks ago yet we have yet to offer any of the all sports members (and it is not known if during their recent trips to the continental divide if BSU & received official invitations).

The ACC got their invitations and acceptances accomplished in less than 72 hours. The B-12 deliberated extensively, invited TCU, deliberated again and form all appearances have officially offered WVU (the latter all happening after we decided on who we would invite).

Why exactly haven't we pulled the trigger yet on invitations? The only plausible reason I can think of is very consistent with the article this thread is about. If there is another I would love to hear it.

 

[TRest]

To be fair to the potential invitees, they may want to know the membership of the conference they are being asked to join. the vultures have to stop feeding on the BE carcass.

 

[NutmegState]

To be fair to the potential invitees, they may want to know the membership of the conference they are being asked to join. the vultures have to stop feeding on the BE carcass.

This. The targets are waiting for the dust to settle, as they should.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

You truly believe that the BE is delaying the invitations to protect the expansion candidates? No conference leadership would ever operate in that fashion and the candidates themselves are capable of making informed decisions.

Try again. The BE being nice doesn't cut it.

 

[whaler11]

You truly believe that the BE is delaying the invitations to protect the expansion candidates? No conference leadership would ever operate in that fashion and the candidates themselves are capable of making informed decisions.

Try again. The BE being nice doesn't cut it.

I think they might not make the invite until they know the answer is yes.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

At least two (UCF, Houston) of the three (SMU is the other) have pretty much said they will accept. The invitations should have been issued at least ten days ago and the only remaining issues should be courting Boise St and Air Force (and telling them that with or without them we will be rebuilding this thing).

 

[Rumrunner]

Perhaps the reason why the BE hasn't moved yet isn't all that complicated. The schools which they know will come-even if USF is the only BE team left-UCF,SMU and UH- are going nowhere.

Navy is waiting to see where things stand and is a tough nut to crack. is a combo Navy/UH. Nowhere else to go, but no need to gamble on the BE.

Boise State only entered the picture when the BCS #'s got whacked with the loss of WVU.

The two trigger schools for the exit fee are and Navy. Maybe 4 votes added a second trigger, Boise State?

 

[whaler11]

At least two (UCF, Houston) of the three (SMU is the other) have pretty much said they will accept. The invitations should have been issued at least ten days ago and the only remaining issues should be courting Boise St and Air Force (and telling them that with or without them we will be rebuilding this thing).

Well I do think it's legitimate for the basketball schools to want to know if Boise and AFA are in football only before they allow Houston and UCF into the all-sport league. I don't know if it matters, if Boise and AFA are out, then the Mini-East will still go out and add Houston, SMU and UCF and probably Temple to get back to 9 long term and 12 for next season. Assuming that the Catholics are willing to split without Boise and AFA.

 

[Rumrunner]

If Boise and AFA are out, that means no way does Navy come, so I can't see the basketball schools adding UCF,UH and SMU by themselves without a firm expectation that at least and Boise.

Well I do think it's legitimate for the basketball schools to want to know if Boise and AFA are in football only before they allow Houston and UCF into the all-sport league. I don't know if it matters, if Boise and AFA are out, then the Mini-East will still go out and add Houston, SMU and UCF and probably Temple to get back to 9 long term and 12 for next season. Assuming that the Catholics are willing to split without Boise and AFA.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

And so the tail wags the dog.

 

[whaler11]

And so the tail wags the dog.

Don't see how it matters in this scenario. If Boise and AFA don't join league, the football schools end up in the same situation they would if they split now - with some mix of Houston, SMU, Temple, UCF, ECU, Memphis...

 

[Druken Friar]

Any conference member who is serious about being a member should accept nothing less than what is done by all the other major BCS conferences.

If the 5 football schools want a separate football conference, they should do it. They could choose to play BB in the Big East or not. I don't see anyone objecting. However, I doubt you will be able to add schools like Boise without a serious commitment to the conference.

Those who keep making ridiculous statements that the basketball schools don't pull their weight are in error. Do some research. Of the 5 football schools left 2 have yet to earn an NCAA bid while with the Big East.

 

[ZooCougar]

The thing I love about this thread is that it pretty much torches Nelson's idiotic argument that the basketball schools didn't cause any kind of instability in this conference. Even now, when the future is on life support these idiots are doing what they can to tap the final nail in the coffin all because they are worried about losing control of their precious balance of power-that they don't deserve.

 

[tzznandrew]

Once they've been given equal say (and with regards to the basketball side, it makes sense), you can't blame them for realizing adding SMU, Houston, and UCF are moves that dilute their side of things with little assurance that UConn/Louisville (the two strongest schools by far remaining) won't leave.

Villanova v. Temple is a little frustrating, as Temple wouldn't dilute the basketball side, but strengthen it. There you get politics like BC-UConn, Florida-FSU, etc.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Once they've been given equal say (and with regards to the basketball side, it makes sense), you can't blame them for realizing adding SMU, Houston, and UCF are moves that dilute their side of things with little assurance that UConn/Louisville (the two strongest schools by far remaining) won't leave.

Villanova v. Temple is a little frustrating, as Temple wouldn't dilute the basketball side, but strengthen it. There you get politics like BC-UConn, Florida-FSU, etc.

This has been my fear all along. I don't think you can make a legitimate argument to offer any of these schools all sports entry to the BE. The travel will be terrible, they seriously dilute basketball. If you add enough western schools to create two divisions and reduce travel, now you've got a bloated monstrosity. The only way to make this work is to split from the BE hoops schools. The result of that might be a BCS football conference, but it's also a weak basketball conference with no geographic logic or even any real similaries between these istitutions.

So either SMU, Houston Boise and probably UCF find all sports homes or we're looking at leaving the BE hoops schools behind. That's how I think this shapes up. That's why I said independence, with hoops in the BE is preferable. I love college football, but care more about basketball for the Huskies.

End result, if this goes forward, probably looks like something like this: split from BB onlies, this is an all-sports league. BYU would probably not join for all sports. If they will, add them in west and Memphis in east. Great America Conference is born.

East: UConn, Rutgers, Cincy, Louisville, CFU, SFU
West: Houston, SMU, Boise, Nevada, Colorado State, UNLV

 

[NutmegState]

It's UCF and USF.

 

[upstater]

This has been my fear all along. I don't think you can make a legitimate argument to offer any of these schools all sports entry to the BE. The travel will be terrible, they seriously dilute basketball. If you add enough western schools to create two divisions and reduce travel, now you've got a bloated monstrosity. The only way to make this work is to split from the BE hoops schools. The result of that might be a BCS football conference, but it's also a weak basketball conference with no geographic logic or even any real similaries between these istitutions.

So either SMU, Houston Boise and probably UCF find all sports homes or we're looking at leaving the BE hoops schools behind. That's how I think this shapes up. That's why I said independence, with hoops in the BE is preferable. I love college football, but care more about basketball for the Huskies.

End result, if this goes forward, probably looks like something like this: split from BB onlies, this is an all-sports league. BYU would probably not join for all sports. If they will, add them in west and Memphis in east. Great America Conference is born.

East: UConn, Rutgers, Cincy, Louisville, CFU, SFU
West: Houston, SMU, Boise, Nevada, Colorado State, UNLV

I honestly think it doesn't matter.
I think UConn is better served by a spectacular crash-and-burn of the BE in the next few months.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

If I'm interpreting some of the responses correctly we have some UConn fans who are looking at hope harder as our best approach from both sides; hoping that the ACC either directly (by expanding to sixteen) or indirectly (by the SEC expanding to sixteen) gives us a call while also hoping that the catholics will acquiesce and allow us to have a football conference. WTF kind of an approach is this?

The basketball conference is not the behemoth some are making it out to be. The three members we are losing were all part of the top third of the conference recently. We had eleven tournament teams and five also rans last year. Three of the tournament teams are on their way out, a fourth (St John's) is going to be PC level bad for the next couple of seasons at least and the only members of the also rans who appear to be moving to where they could become tournament teams in any reasonable time frame both play football.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The threat by the hoops schools is that they will force a split if the wrong football members (UConn and/or Louisville) leave. Let's tell them to start the proceedings if they want. We still have the highest profile hoops programs and the only valuable commodities they have want us more than they want DePaul, PC or Seton Hall.

We tell them "We are splitting, adding SMU, Houston, UCF and Temple for all sports and offering Navy, Air Force, Boise St and BYU for football only. Georgetown, Nova, ND and one of Marquette or St John's can have conditional membership in all sports except football". What do you think will happen?

The realitiy is that we can be a strong enough hoops conference without the catholics (and may be able to take the better catholics with ius if we feel we need them) but we cannot be anything of a football conference with them, especially if they are the ones calling all the shots.

 

[upstater]

The threat by the hoops schools is that they will force a split if the wrong football members (UConn and/or Louisville) leave. Let's tell them to start the proceedings if they want. We still have the highest profile hoops programs and the only valuable commodities they have want us more than they want DePaul, PC or Seton Hall.

We tell them "We are splitting, adding SMU, Houston, UCF and Temple for all sports and offering Navy, Air Force, Boise St and BYU for football only. Georgetown, Nova, ND and one of Marquette or St John's can have conditional membership in all sports except football". What do you think will happen?

The realitiy is that we can be a strong enough hoops conference without the catholics (and may be able to take the better catholics with ius if we feel we need them) but we cannot be anything of a football conference with them, especially if they are the ones calling all the shots.

This makes me think that Pitino isn't so dumb when he suggests Memphis.

Memphis and Houston could replace some of the basketball losses pretty quickly.

Trying to kill off viable BE members for certain sports is like trying to cut off the hydra head.

Take VT and BC away, Louisville and Cincy pop-up.
Take Pitt, WV and Cuse, Boise St., BYU and Air Force pop up.
Take TCU, replace with Houston.

 

[Rumrunner]

Memphis is the worst choice of the bunch. They are abysmal in CUSA right now. One of the worst programs in FBS. Horrible. Plus they don't have the money to improve. They're lucky to draw 15,000 a game. Sure, they have a solid bb program, but that costs far less and a lot easier to do than construct a solid bcs football program. Their academics are putrid, too. Of course the one minute man wants them. But that doesn't make them good for Big East football.

 

[upstater]

Memphis is the worst choice of the bunch. They are abysmal in CUSA right now. One of the worst programs in FBS. Horrible. Plus they don't have the money to improve. They're lucky to draw 15,000 a game. Sure, they have a solid bb program, but that costs far less and a lot easier to do than construct a solid bcs football program. Their academics are putrid, too. Of course the one minute man wants them. But that doesn't make them good for Big East football.

BE football with UCF and Navy and SMU will not be a draw regardless. Might as well go toe-to-toe with the ACC in bball.

Besides, how long will it take Memphis to get to SMU's level in football, really? I say, 20 minutes.