It's not flagrant, it's common

[RedStickHusky]

This is the Big East. Tell me it can't be both.

 

[Palatine]

I still don't understand how being elbowed in the head is not a foul of any kind.

 

[WeAreUCONN]

I still don't understand how being elbowed in the head is not a foul of any kind.

If it’s a natural basketball motion i.e. moving your arms to get into shooting position, it’s not a foul if your elbow hits the defender’s jaw or forehead. The defender needs to be aware that the shooter has the right to shoot the ball with his normal arm motion and get their face out of the way.

If the video shows the shooter purposely raised his elbow higher than his normal shooting motion, to hit the defender in the face, then it would be a foul.

 

[RedStickHusky]

I still don't understand how being elbowed in the head is not a foul of any kind.

Well, because it's common and therefore unreviewable

 

[Palatine]

If it’s a natural basketball motion i.e. moving your arms to get into shooting position, it’s not a foul if your elbow hits the defender’s jaw or forehead. The defender needs to be aware that the shooter has the right to shoot the ball with his normal arm motion and get their face out of the way.

If the video shows the shooter purposely raised his elbow higher than his normal shooting motion, to hit the defender in the face, then it would be a foul.

That shouldn't matter, your right to swing your arms ends at the defenders body.

Fouls do not have to be on purpose. Often on rebounds, guys have their arms over their heads and turn to look up court. If their elbows hit someone in the head, it is almost always called a foul, although it is unintentional and a normal basketball move.

You are responsible for your body.

 

[ibleedhuskyblue]

That shouldn't matter, your right to swing your arms ends at the defenders body.

Fouls do not have to be on purpose. Often on rebounds, guys have their arms over their heads and turn to look up court. If their elbows hit someone in the head, it is almost always called a foul, although it is unintentional and a normal basketball move.

You are responsible for your body.

He shouldn't have let his head be in the way. Duh

 

[WeAreUCONN]

That shouldn't matter, your right to swing your arms ends at the defenders body.

Fouls do not have to be on purpose. Often on rebounds, guys have their arms over their heads and turn to look up court. If their elbows hit someone in the head, it is almost always called a foul, although it is unintentional and a normal basketball move.

You are responsible for your body.

It does matter because the offensive player has the right to his own space when shooting the ball. If the defender is invading the shooter’s space, then it’s okay to have your elbow hit his face. That’s actually the rule.

 

[Leebo]

I can recall plenty of times (over many years, not anything specific recently) where UConn players have made incidental elbow contact with opposing players' heads while making normal basketball motions that were called flagrant. Have the guidelines changed or is it just that there will always be some crummy calls.

 

[WeAreUCONN]

I can recall plenty of times (over many years, not anything specific recently) where UConn players have made incidental elbow contact with opposing players' heads while making normal basketball motions that were called flagrant. Have the guidelines changed or is it just that there will always be some crummy calls.

I think the way the referees are actually officiating the rule has changed but the rule itself has not changed as far as I know. Using common sense, Karaban himself was fouled and not the shooter but the rule does state that the shooter has the right to shoot the ball and the contact is incidental if it’s a normal motion.

 

[WeAreUCONN]

Well, because it's common and therefore unreviewable

They did review it and decided it was incidental contact and a foul on Karaban.

 

[RedStickHusky]

It is possible, though not advisable, to hit an elbow with a face.

 

[RedStickHusky]

It's just the language that was bugging me. I've seen plenty of games in which Flagrant Fouls were relatively common. I guess "Common Foul" is a proper noun for non-flagrant and does imply anything about the frequency of occurrence.

 

[61cygni]

That shouldn't matter, your right to swing your arms ends at the defenders body.

Fouls do not have to be on purpose. Often on rebounds, guys have their arms over their heads and turn to look up court. If their elbows hit someone in the head, it is almost always called a foul, although it is unintentional and a normal basketball move.

You are responsible for your body.

Yeah, that's not the rules of basketball.

 

[HuskylnSC]

The correct answer is, "It's the Big East". In the BE an elbow to the head is common. If it were the ACC it would be Flagrant 2 and in the PAC-12 it would be incarceration.

 

[husky429]

You are responsible for your body.

As-is the defender, who should understand the risk of getting in someone's cylinder.

 

[Palatine]

Yeah, that's not the rules of basketball.

The rules of basketball allow you to hit a guy in the head with your elbow? Really. They don't even allow that in football.

The dribbler must be in control of his body at all times. If illegal contact occurs, the responsibility is on the dribbler.

 

[RedStickHusky]

The rules of basketball allow you to hit a guy in the head with your elbow? Really. They don't even allow that in football.

The dribbler must be in control of his body at all times. If illegal contact occurs, the responsibility is on the dribbler.

Just as a thought exercise, hold something above your head with both hands. Now turn to face 180°away without moving your feet...
What did your elbows do?

 

[uconnfan68]

They did review it and decided it was incidental contact and a foul on Karaban.

The foul was called after the elbow, when he went up to shoot.

 

[Spaceman213J]

Concussions and CTE are no longer running rampant across the sports headlines, so it's back to business like before.

What bothered me the most is that even if that is the rule now about the arms and forearms, the contact whether it's on purpose or not, gave the player and advantage and led to the foul. If the rule stays this way, which I pray it doesn't, then the refs should be able to determine if the foul is likely a result from a the initial blow given by the offensive player and given the ability to take the foul away from the defender and give the ball to the offense to inbounds with a 20 second shot clock.

But the NCAA being the brilliant collective who works retroactively instead of getting ahead of things will wait until some star player and/or NBA prospect is injured and goes through something like Ducharme is going through on the women's side.

 

[RedStickHusky]

Many great defenders (Nika Muhl for ex.) like to stick their face in the middle of the action. They probably should be called for it more than they are.

 

[WeAreUCONN]

The foul was called after the elbow, when he went up to shoot.

Yes, and there was also a review of the entire play, including when Karaban got hit in the forehead, and it was deemed a natural basketball play.