I suggest we throw up 3 pointers and hit the boards!

[Alydar]

Dawn Staley once said something to the effect that she didn't mind so much if her team missed jump shots because they probably were going to get the rebound and maybe a putback. Look at how that worked out for them. Look at our team. 3 potential 40% 3 point jump shooters ( much better than SC ) and if we actually work it, capable of rebounding with just about anyone. I would think Ayanna has a lot of rebounding potential next year and I would ask her to focus on rebounding, defense and put backs. Who else not named the "B" word is an incoming freshman who can rebound better? Maybe South Carolina's Ashlyn Watkins? Is Ayanna capable of 10 rebounds a game? One would think potentially if she gets 30 minutes PT. She is big, strong, fast and aggressive on the boards and she can flat out jump with strong enough hands to hold onto the ball in a crowd. She has the makings of a great rebounding big.

I'm all for Ice getting a lot of PT also as she may be as good as any of our bigs in replicating the passing big we had with Liv with maybe even a better outside shot. I think we are going to be fine in all areas next year. Looking at it from a basic analytics perspective, I think we can maximize our offensive potential as a ball moving 3 point shooting team which also has a strong rebounding component. I'm not saying be a 3 point shooting team entirely but it would be my primary focus along with fielding a strong rebounding component.

Players like Patterson (long & quick) make good offensive rebounders. Griffin and Williams before her demonstrated that quickness to the ball more than made up for being several inches shorter.
Brady has faced most of the top posts in SCal and appears to be skilled. How skilled is the question. Geno sees her at the high post where her shooting will force defenses to come out from the paint. (Hopefully) I'll be happy if she can box out, a lost art at Storrs.

 

[Alydar]

You keep repeating this mantra that UCONN is a "terrific" 3Pt shooting team-although in fairness you did use the word "potential" in your original post. This is simply not supported by the stats. UCONN shot 33.79 % from behind the arc last season. That was the lowest 3PTFG% for a UCONN team going back a full decade for the stats I've been able to check. That stat puts UCONN at #56 ranked team in the country in 3pt shooting. The former Syracuse WBB coach Quentin Hillsman had a similar philosophy-it didn't matter how many you make just keep putting up threes. I questioned Q's philosophy then and would also question your proposal to have next season's UCONN team start launching more threes. BTW Hillsman should have been fired for malpractice but it was abusive behavior that eventually caught up to him.

View attachment 76214

As someone else said .... who cares what other teams do? And furthermore, given the circumstances, who cares enough about last year's stats to consider them relevant? You.

 

[CocoHusky]

As someone else said .... who cares what other teams do? And furthermore, given the circumstances, who cares enough about last year's stats to consider them relevant? You.

I do because we are talking about returning players being penciled into a level of performance they have NEVER achieved or managed to sustain over an entire season ( Paige being the only exception) . We have been reluctantly dragged down this road too many times before.

The first time was two times I was told CW had finally turned a corned and would return a more consistent player.
The second time was after Anna Makurat overcame her fear of starting & some among us believed she would return for her Sophomore campaign a 40%+ 3PT shooter.
The third time was the continued selective parsing of Nika Muhl shooting/scoring to justify more playing time and not to recruit players that would interfere with her minutes.
The fourth time is concerning Caroline who just had hip surgery. That is now knee, shoulder and hip surgeries for Caroline just in case anyone is keep ing track.

 

[jchusky]

I do because we are talking about returning players being penciled into a level of performance they have NEVER achieved or managed to sustain over an entire season ( Paige being the only exception) . We have been reluctantly dragged down this road too many times before.

The first time was two times I was told CW had finally turned a corned and would return a more consistent player.
The second time was after Anna Makurat overcame her fear of starting & some among us believed she would return for her Sophomore campaign a 40%+ 3PT shooter.
The third time was the continued selective parsing of Nika Muhl shooting/scoring to justify more playing time and not to recruit players that would interfere with her minutes.
The fourth time is concerning Caroline who just had hip surgery. That is now knee, shoulder and hip surgeries for Caroline just in case anyone is keep ing track.

my biggest peeve was when ppl would bring up a 3 pt shooting contest in where Caroline beat Fudd. That's great if there were no defenders during the game, but we are seeing the top teams are shutting down the 3 pt game. I looked at that Stanford game and Fudd went 0-3. Paige 0-1, Ducharme only played few but did not attempt a 3. The best player from 3 was Westbrook who had been cold as ice before that game, maybe Stanford knew that and were daring if she would continue to be cold but she made the shots. Against SC, 4-16 from 3.

 

[TeamFirst!]

With the exception of Lou, I cited their college career numbers. It doesn't take a genius to know that their college career numbers are the best data set for this. For Lou, I just used her last 3 years in a row which is an even bigger sample size than any of the other players. 3 point shooting can obviously fluctuate for any player but a larger data set is a better indicator than a smaller one and a more recent data set is generally better than one 4 years old. For Lou, she was a consistent 40% type 3 point shooter the last 3 years in a row and a primary scorer on her team. Paige shot 46.4% from 3 her entire first year when she was healthy. Again, no one is saying pass up layups or open 2 point shots. No one is saying give up Geno's offensive schemes that he has used for many years. I'm just saying we should maximize the strengths of this team.

Paige's 46.4% from 3 her freshman year is better than Steph Curry EVER shot in any year in the NBA. Should the Golden State Warriors shoot a lot of 3 pointers? Most analysts would say yes. Azzi gives every indication of being a shooter of a similar level to Paige if not better. Lou has a 3 year track record of outstanding 3 point shooting. A lot of All American players shoot around 45% overall, including layups. For players to shoot over 40% is not that unusual now but they are a huge contributor to an offense and we have 3 of them and maybe potentially 4. Every indication is that it should be a big part of this team's offense next year. If you sincerely look at the numbers objectively, it is obvious.

What I like about it the most is that every player on the floor knows when a top shooter is putting up a 3 point shot. If they are open they are generally putting up the shot. We should use that to crash the boards, block out...etc. Knowing when the shot is going up is a strategic advantage also. Having 3 players who can all bury the 3 consistently is very hard to stop. If the opposing players are guarding everyone at the 3 point line, the middle should be open for movement and back door plays. It is a game changer and can potentially put us in a position to beat any team over a 2 game sample size like the final 4. No matter how good the other team is, it is very difficult to lose when you shoot over 40% from 3 and have good defense. We don't have to have the best big in the country. We maximize our advantages and minimize our weaaknesses.

 

[CocoHusky]

With the exception of Lou, I cited their college career numbers. It doesn't take a genius to know that their college career numbers are the best data set for this. For Lou, I just used her last 3 years in a row which is an even bigger sample size than any of the other players. 3 point shooting can obviously fluctuate for any player but a larger data set is a better indicator than a smaller one and a more recent data set is generally better than one 4 years old. For Lou, she was a consistent 40% type 3 point shooter the last 3 years in a row and a primary scorer on her team. Paige shot 46.4% from 3 her entire first year when she was healthy. Again, no one is saying pass up layups or open 2 point shots. No one is saying give up Geno's offensive schemes that he has used for many years. I'm just saying we should maximize the strengths of this team.

Paige's 46.4% from 3 her freshman year is better than Steph Curry EVER shot in any year in the NBA. Should the Golden State Warriors shoot a lot of 3 pointers? Most analysts would say yes. Azzi gives every indication of being a shooter of a similar level to Paige if not better. Lou has a 3 year track record of outstanding 3 point shooting. A lot of All American players shoot around 45% overall, including layups. For players to shoot over 40% is not that unusual now but they are a huge contributor to an offense and we have 3 of them and maybe potentially 4. Every indication is that it should be a big part of this team's offense next year. If you sincerely look at the numbers objectively, it is obvious.

What I like about it the most is that every player on the floor knows when a top shooter is putting up a 3 point shot. If they are open they are generally putting up the shot. We should use that to crash the boards, block out...etc. Knowing when the shot is going up is a strategic advantage also. Having 3 players who can all bury the 3 consistently is very hard to stop. If the opposing players are guarding everyone at the 3 point line, the middle should be open for movement and back door plays. It is a game changer and can potentially put us in a position to beat any team over a 2 game sample size like the final 4. No matter how good the other team is, it is very difficult to lose when you shoot over 40% from 3 and have good defense. We don't have to have the best big in the country. We maximize our advantages and minimize our weaaknesses.

Lou^2 played at Fairfield I would be pleasantly surprised if she can put up close to the same shooting numbers playing at UCONN. If Lou ^2 were to manage shooting 45% you mentioned she will have achieved her career high shooting % while playing for UCONN. I hope this happens but for now color me skeptical.

Larger data sets are abetter indication so why not apply that to your Paige /Curry comparison? A regular NBA season is 82 games + playoffs. Paige played in 29 games as Freshman and 17 games last season which is roughly 1/2 of an NBA season. It is also fair to point out that Paige's 3 Point shooting began to dip significant from her freshman peak numbers prior to the injury.

Even with the addition of Lou 3 Pt shooting is not the major strength/advantage you are envisioning. BTW UCONN's most recent FF loss (Arizona) was a game in which UCONN shot over 40% (5 of 12) and still lost.

 

[TeamFirst!]

I could cite 100% 3 point shooting statistics and coco would feel compelled to find fault with it. I think the data is very clear. Make your own conclusions.

 

[CocoHusky]

I could cite 100% 3 point shooting statistics and coco would feel compelled to find fault with it. I think the data is very clear. Make your own conclusions.

 

[Bone Dog]

@CocoHusky, I share your concerns. But I am an inveterate optimist. I also suspect Lou will not be able to put up the same numbers at UConn as she did in the MAAC.

And I’m equally concerned about Paige’s shooting last season. In the Arkansas game, she was reluctant to shoot in the first quarter and UConn looked ragged. Geno must have said something special in the break because she scored 30 in the next three quarters, mainly those deadly spot-up jumpers from midrange. In effect she took the team on her shoulders, again. This is what she did in the OTs against NC St.

I remember thinking the team had fallen into the same old habit of watching Paige do it all and figured they’d lose to Stanford in the FF. But they didn’t, and they played tough D and disrupted Stanford’s shooting just enough to steal a win. Sadly, this was not going to suffice against SC.

As great as Paige can be from 3, I suspect her midrange game is actually more devastating to opponents. I expect to see more of it next season.

We clearly need a balanced effort from everyone next season. Paige, as tremendous as she can be, will not be enough. Right now, all we can do is imagine the best the rest of the team can do, and tremble at the worst that might happen. For now, I don’t mind imagining the best. I got enough of the worst last season.

 

[TCC Kid]

That comment by Geno was in reference to UConn’s ugly win at Providence.

Geno said a few times: Recruiting great made good coaches look great.

 

[Alydar]

I do because we are talking about returning players being penciled into a level of performance they have NEVER achieved or managed to sustain over an entire season ( Paige being the only exception) . We have been reluctantly dragged down this road too many times before.

The first time was two times I was told CW had finally turned a corned and would return a more consistent player.
The second time was after Anna Makurat overcame her fear of starting & some among us believed she would return for her Sophomore campaign a 40%+ 3PT shooter.
The third time was the continued selective parsing of Nika Muhl shooting/scoring to justify more playing time and not to recruit players that would interfere with her minutes.
The fourth time is concerning Caroline who just had hip surgery. That is now knee, shoulder and hip surgeries for Caroline just in case anyone is keep ing track.

You really should have wiped off some of those "examples", they obviously come from the bottom of the barrel.

 

[TCC Kid]

@CocoHusky, I share your concerns. But I am an inveterate optimist. I also suspect Lou will not be able to put up the same numbers at UConn as she did in the MAAC.

And I’m equally concerned about Paige’s shooting last season. In the Arkansas game, she was reluctant to shoot in the first quarter and UConn looked ragged. Geno must have said something special in the break because she scored 30 in the next three quarters, mainly those deadly spot-up jumpers from midrange. In effect she took the team on her shoulders, again. This is what she did in the OTs against NC St.

I remember thinking the team had fallen into the same old habit of watching Paige do it all and figured they’d lose to Stanford in the FF. But they didn’t, and they played tough D and disrupted Stanford’s shooting just enough to steal a win. Sadly, this was not going to suffice against SC.

As great as Paige can be from 3, I suspect her midrange game is actually more devastating to opponents. I expect to see more of it next season.

We clearly need a balanced effort from everyone next season. Paige, as tremendous as she can be, will not be enough. Right now, all we can do is imagine the best the rest of the team can do, and tremble at the worst that might happen. For now, I don’t mind imagining the best. I got enough of the worst last season.

Tony C, is the Boneyard optimist. You being second, I'll have to drag along on the tail. But, I don't hold your concern for next season. It has been a while since Uconn has had the excellent shooters in the number this team has. Geno has had excellent production and wins with 4 or 5 good shooting guards, that is not MY favorite option. I too like BALANCE in all aspects of the game. That is one of my many reasons to have at least 3 "big posts" all capable of starting. A weakness and a focus for opponents is getting very good post in foul trouble. We've seen that this year in tight games opponents went after ONO and Edwards trying to weaken their effect on the game by putting them in foul trouble. You don't have to "imagine" the best because--please take attendance of those about to play--if I were every other team not name SC, I'd worry about next season. If Geno picks up 2 really ready posts by then, I'd worry if I were SC.

 

[TCC Kid]

that's Dawn's strategy because her three point shooters weren't all that good but her offensive rebounders were terrific........how about simply running your offense in order to get the best shot possible........... that seems to have worked pretty well.......

There obviously, are benefits to seeking the best shot available. At least until time runs out. I'm not the biggest fan of run and gun but when you have 4 of the better (best?) shooters around I'd say let it fly when in range. A quick score is often the easiest. Geno, way back when, and to an extent still uses that --beat em down the court and score approach. Sometime the dribble dribble, pass pass pass, eats up clock better used trying to score.

 

[TCC Kid]

I believe you and I have dialogue about this several times. With the simultaneous graduation of Kia Nurse and Gabby Williams UCONN essential lost the ability to effectively press and dictate "defensive" tempo without sacrificing offensive efficiency. Let me be specific in my criticism of Mikayla Coombs, Aubrey Griffin and Nika Muhl. All three provided sufficient athleticism required to be a defensive game changing forces. None of the three provided enough offensive consistency or productivity to justify additional usage in that defensive role that was so desperately needed. Better health for Aubrey and Nika would certainly have helped as would a deeper rotation. My criticism is also going to extend to Christyn, Paige and Azzi. Although they are tremendously gifted offensive players (#1 in HS class deservedly) defensive improvement might ultimately have more to do with their success at UCONN. Azzi particularly has got a long long way to grow defensively.

I agree with Gabby and Nurse being both offensive and defensive assets. I will only agree in terms of potential with Coombs and Aubrey, we didn't see enough of them for long periods to assess. Nika, is more of a disruptor than a defensive threat, in my view of her. In terms of scoring: No Nika isn't Caroline (she over 6 ft), or Paige, or Edwards nor is she, at times, as talented in scoring. However, when well, most teams that allowed her to shoot when she choose--paid for that. Not all player assets show in the the stats, except in the W column. Nika is one of them. She motivates, she emboldens her team with her intensity, he drive, and the way other teams negatively respond when she is on the floor. No one on this team even Aubrey come close to Gabby. Nurse, is one of a kind.

 

[Bone Dog]

... Nika is one of them. She motivates, she emboldens her team with her intensity, he drive, and the way other teams negatively respond when she is on the floor.

Nika is an interesting case in that she has significant liabilities, notably in scoring, but is also an asset at times of immense value. That said, I'm not sure the team is best served by having her on the floor for more than ~15 mins/game. There are certain moments when the peculiar mayhem she brings can change a game, especially the first 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter. The recent game against Tennessee really shows what she can do at such moments. But the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter is rarely a good moment for her.

 

[TeamFirst!]

I'm talking about an effective field goal percentage of 53-56% after counting the impact from the extra points from the 3 point shots made, from guards. No one is saying dump Geno's offense or passing up good shots. This should be a slam dunk no brainer. How many guards have an effective field goal percentage like that for the year? Even a 2 point efficiency rating like that? Paige easily topped that her freshman year and who wouldn't want that again? Paige has a college career efg% close to Steph Curry's NBA career as the best in basketball. She has a career field goal % around 53% and she has shot over 40% from 3 for her career so far. Her efg% has to be in the 60% range so far. Azzi is reputed to be equally as good from 3. This is an easy decision. Play Geno's offense. Yes, balance the scoring, but increase the emphasis on 3 point shooting. Slam dunk easy decision.

 

[CocoHusky]

I'm talking about an effective field goal percentage of 53-56% after counting the impact from the extra points from the 3 point shots made, from guards. No one is saying dump Geno's offense or passing up good shots. This should be a slam dunk no brainer. How many guards have an effective field goal percentage like that for the year? Even a 2 point efficiency rating like that? Paige easily topped that her freshman year and who wouldn't want that again? Paige has a college career efg% close to Steph Curry's NBA career as the best in basketball. She has a career field goal % around 53% and she has shot over 40% from 3 for her career so far. Her efg% has to be in the 60% range so far. Azzi is reputed to be equally as good from 3. This is an easy decision. Play Geno's offense. Yes, balance the scoring, but increase the emphasis on 3 point shooting. Slam dunk easy decision.

 

[Alydar]

I'm talking about an effective field goal percentage of 53-56% after counting the impact from the extra points from the 3 point shots made, from guards. No one is saying dump Geno's offense or passing up good shots. This should be a slam dunk no brainer. How many guards have an effective field goal percentage like that for the year? Even a 2 point efficiency rating like that? Paige easily topped that her freshman year and who wouldn't want that again? Paige has a college career efg% close to Steph Curry's NBA career as the best in basketball. She has a career field goal % around 53% and she has shot over 40% from 3 for her career so far. Her efg% has to be in the 60% range so far. Azzi is reputed to be equally as good from 3. This is an easy decision. Play Geno's offense. Yes, balance the scoring, but increase the emphasis on 3 point shooting. Slam dunk easy decision.

I think this was the plan last season. Geno knew how good those 2 were and designed an offense around their talents. But fate had other plans and so we'll try it again. What I really like is knowing that both of them work very hard and defense will be something they will be better at next season. And for UConn to dominate both defense and rebounding have to be a team effort.

 

[TCC Kid]

Nika is an interesting case in that she has significant liabilities, notably in scoring, but is also an asset at times of immense value. That said, I'm not sure the team is best served by having her on the floor for more than ~15 mins/game. There are certain moments when the peculiar mayhem she brings can change a game, especially the first 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter. The recent game against Tennessee really shows what she can do at such moments. But the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter is rarely a good moment for her.

My comment is relegated to the time limit. Obviously, you know time in the game for ANY player is based on her value to the team against the team they are playing. Geno is Geno. I questioned his not putting Nika in for more than a few minutes--then she's in for 35 minutes. Geno is playing to the game and the need or specifics of that game. While I cheer Geno and I condemn Geno (i"m a fan, a stupid fan never the less) I know Geno uses what he has the best way to win. He, like me, hates losing.
While I moan and groan that Nika, Caroline, Edwards don't get enough time and Paige gets too much--that is firmly based on EMOTIONS not facts.

 

[Bone Dog]

My comment is relegated to the time limit. Obviously, you know time in the game for ANY player is based on her value to the team against the team they are playing. Geno is Geno. I questioned his not putting Nika in for more than a few minutes--then she's in for 35 minutes. Geno is playing to the game and the need or specifics of that game. While I cheer Geno and I condemn Geno (i"m a fan, a stupid fan never the less) I know Geno uses what he has the best way to win. He, like me, hates losing.
While I moan and groan that Nika, Caroline, Edwards don't get enough time and Paige gets too much--that is firmly based on EMOTIONS not facts.

I completely agree. I was thinking in terms of average playing time across a season. You are right to expect variations and lament them too.

 

[TeamFirst!]

I try hard to stay positive but as much as I like and admire Nika as a person, she's #4 or 5 on the guard depth chart to me. Her defense is good, not the sensational she's been given credit for so many times. She hustles a lot and that's terrific. She has quick hands but she can also be posted up pretty easily and she doesn't block shots much. I love how she is willing to hit the floor for loose balls and respond more quickly than almost anyone but I don't rate defenders by how determined they look and how much they growl. They also need size and anticipation skills. Paige steals more balls overall when she's healthy. And Nika's offense is not up to Uconn standards. If she gets more than 15 minutes PT on average we are not optimized. If the team has some injuries she's great to help cover for them. If we are playing another Big East team we probably win no matter who is in that slot anyway, and she's had a ton of success against mediocre teams, but we want to beat the top teams don't we? A black hole on offense is a problem against top teams and they will exploit it. She doesn't drive down the middle much because she gets stuffed in the paint regularly. She is a great player but not great enough to get a lot of playing time with Uconn unless someone is injured. There is nothing wrong with that role. That's better than 99% of the women basketball players in America. If she can develop a 3 point shot with regular knock downs, and I think she can, then her playing time can increase but she cannot be a black hole on offense. I'm not giving up on her and wish her the best.

 

[Bone Dog]

That’s more or less my take on Nika too, except for her sense of the moment. She’s a liability on offense — her skills driving to the basket are not strong, she has no dribble-stop jumper, and her 3-point shot takes too long to release. But she has a knack for disrupting an opponent’s guards when it really counts. The Tennessee game is a perfect example. Just watch the third quarter and you’ll see it. You can’t coach this, and you can’t really predict when she’ll ‘go off’, which means she’ll look like a liability at times.