I suggest we throw up 3 pointers and hit the boards!

[Mdoggie]

@TeamFirst! You seems soooo serious all the time. Are you ok?

 

[LwrcasefaN]

You keep repeating this mantra that UCONN is a "terrific" 3Pt shooting team-although in fairness you did use the word "potential" in your original post. This is simply not supported by the stats. UCONN shot 33.79 % from behind the arc last season. That was the lowest 3PTFG% for a UCONN team going back a full decade for the stats I've been able to check. That stat puts UCONN at #56 ranked team in the country in 3pt shooting. The former Syracuse WBB coach Quentin Hillsman had a similar philosophy-it didn't matter how many you make just keep putting up threes. I questioned Q's philosophy then and would also question your proposal to have next season's UCONN team start launching more threes. BTW Hillsman should have been fired for malpractice but it was abusive behavior that eventually caught up to him.

View attachment 76214

My friend...now I don't subscribe to launching 3s like crazy, but Hillsman just played the math game (and looked at his personnel) and reached the finals. That's not malpractice. They didn't have great 3 %s and he knew that, but he bet on getting more attempts...and it worked for awhile. Having said that...I don't think he was the best coach for bigs. He just wasted talent in that department. He was the Orange version of DePaul.

 

[CocoHusky]

My friend...now I don't subscribe to launching 3s like crazy, but Hillsman just played the math game (and looked at his personnel) and reached the finals. That's not malpractice. They didn't have great 3 %s and he knew that, but he bet on getting more attempts...and it worked for awhile. Having said that...I don't think he was the best coach for bigs. He just wasted talent in that department. He was the Orange version of DePaul.

Fair enough but that is just one example. I have plenty more. Q was a very below basic coach and severely lacking in the X and O. It was no coincidence that each time he came up against a master like Geno the UCONN margins of victory increased with each UCONN pounding. He stuck to that token press like is was really something useful when the reality was that it produced exactly one turnover (Saniya Chong ) in three meetings. He had no acumen for the defensive side of the ball and even Jim Boehiem laughed at him for trying to implement a 2 3 match up zone defense after a few cursory meetings. That guy was an extreme sham! You are probably right however you would have to be part of an actual profession to be sued for malpractice. WCBB wants to forget about Q as fast as possible.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Both Paige and Azzi have shot over 43% for their college careeers from 3. Lopez- Senechal has averaged about 40% 3 point shooting for the last 3 years in a row with a lot of shots put up. That is a great 3 point shooting team.

Azzi shot exactly 43% and Paige shot 35.3%. Would be nice if she shot 46.4% again.
I'd rather have a player who shoots 35% with a small standard deviation. Azzi shot 61% in 15 games and 18% in 11 games. Azzi needs to be more consistent.

 

[TeamFirst!]

I was talking about Paige's college CAREER numbers, as I noted. My data is accurate. Should we use Paige's numbers just from last year when she played injured much of the year? Or the numbers from her Freshman and Sophmore year combined? Coco has nothing on this one. She is encultured to put down reflexively but she has nothing. Geno should feature 3 point shooting next year. No one is saying pass up good shots but Geno should run plays to open up 3 point opportunities with this team. He has at least 3 proven solid 3 point shooters.

 

[Mdoggie]

@TeamFirst! . UConns offense is not predicated on the 3 however within the flow 3s are aplenty if open and taken. It’s been like that for awhile. KML and KLS took full advantage of this. If you’re saying YOU want the team to shoot more, all good. If you’re saying the offense needs to change, we’ll not so much. I have to admit I haven’t read all your post on this thread. TLDR.

 

[jdote33]

I think shooting threes sounds good and spreading it out makes sense. Usually, on teams that do that they either have a paint presence or a guard that is constantly attacking and getting in the paint. My concern is that we don't really have that though I believe Nika is better at it than she gets credit for. I think Dorka helps this philosophy and of course Lou would be great in this type of offense. I think Paige and Azzi should look for more transition and quick threes.

But I guess the interesting part of the thread and what it is pointing to is whether this should be the Huskies identity next season. Like SCs identity was a great defensive team. I guess it's all about the quality of looks. I also think you can definitely die by the three. I think if CD proved to be an elite 3 point shooter id be all in. Maybe even play her a lot at the 4 to stretch the D.
The rebounding part is interesting as well. I think Dorka and AE could hold their own on the glass, with the exception of playing against SC probably. Nika is obviously a great rebounding guard. Aubrey could be great in that area as well. I guess that also depends on lineups

 

[The deacon]

Finally something on which you will probably get universal agreement:

So much of this thread has been occupied by CocoHusky's and TeamFirst's nitpicking with each other that it's been tough to keep track of the point.

That's sad to me, since I usually find posts by both of you interesting and respect your willingness to speak your mind. I hope you two can find a way to chill so we all can just focus on the Huskies. Thanks!

Have a good night, everyone!

 

[Skeets]

What various studies? The imaginary studies that support your opinion? My imaginary studies say the opposite. Why don't you post the links to these studies if they are real,
Read the study by the Northwestern Sports Analytic Group.

Do Longer Shot Attempts Mean Longer Rebounds? | Northwestern Sports Analytics Group

Author: Jeremy Brooks (Weinberg '20) In every level of basketball, rebounding is considered in two different lights: on one hand it is the pinna...

sites.northwestern.edu

Basically they say in a agreement with you: "there is no observed correlation between field goal attempt distance and defensive rebound distance in the NBA, which undermines the prevailing sentiment that longer shots result in longer rebounds." However, they go on to say: "Despite this conclusion, the conventional wisdom should not wholly be rejected. The “longer shots == longer rebounds” logic simplifies rebounds into a one dimensional endeavor, in which the length is the distance the ball travels horizontally from the basket. However, the incredible height and athleticism of NBA players elucidates the importance of viewing rebounds as a three dimensional process in which the vertical dimension is critical. The rebounds might be set on a longer trajectory, but because NBA players routinely corral rebounds far above the height of the rim, the basketball might never have a chance to travel that far away." Women players cannot leap like NBA players so more rebounds will travel further from the basket.

A second reason that the conventional wisdom may still hold true is that the distance of offensive rebounds was not considered. Because the defense is typically aligned “inside” the offense during play and after a shot attempt, the longer rebounds may more likely be offensive rebounds because they sail far from where the defense is focused. Additional research on the connection between field goal attempt distance and offensive rebound distance could confirm or deny this possibility.

Yes, your post and my own lying eyes

 

[Skeets]

So much of this thread has been occupied by CocoHusky's and TeamFirst's nitpicking with each other that it's been tough to keep track of the point.

That's sad to me, since I usually find posts by both of you interesting and respect your willingness to speak your mind. I hope you two can find a way to chill so we all can just focus on the Huskies. Thanks!

Have a good night, everyone!

It's a good thing we are all UConn fans, lest this TF vs. Coco thingy gets ugly. The funny thing is they both make good points, and neither is 100% correct or 100% wrong IMHO. They just can't see that.

 

[HuskyNan]

@CocoHusky @TeamFirst! Stop, just stop. Take it to PM.

 

[TCC Kid]

Dawn Staley once said something to the effect that she didn't mind so much if her team missed jump shots because they probably were going to get the rebound and maybe a putback. Look at how that worked out for them. Look at our team. 3 potential 40% 3 point jump shooters ( much better than SC ) and if we actually work it, capable of rebounding with just about anyone. I would think Ayanna has a lot of rebounding potential next year and I would ask her to focus on rebounding, defense and put backs. Who else not named the "B" word is an incoming freshman who can rebound better? Maybe South Carolina's Ashlyn Watkins? Is Ayanna capable of 10 rebounds a game? One would think potentially if she gets 30 minutes PT. She is big, strong, fast and aggressive on the boards and she can flat out jump with strong enough hands to hold onto the ball in a crowd. She has the makings of a great rebounding big.

I'm all for Ice getting a lot of PT also as she may be as good as any of our bigs in replicating the passing big we had with Liv with maybe even a better outside shot. I think we are going to be fine in all areas next year. Looking at it from a basic analytics perspective, I think we can maximize our offensive potential as a ball moving 3 point shooting team which also has a strong rebounding component. I'm not saying be a 3 point shooting team entirely but it would be my primary focus along with fielding a strong rebounding component.

Geno, probably began the 3 point shooting in Women''s College basketball as a means of winning. I don't much care for stats so I won't argue the point. However, 20-25 years ago Geno pushed using the 3 because for the same number of 2 shots vs 3 shots you got 1/3 more points (not his exact wording but his idea). But throwing the ball up, without strong rebounders is like throwing up 100 fifty dollar bills in a crowd of Teens and expecting to get 75 percent returned, unless of course they were Notre Dame students. (smile)

 

[visitingcock]

Let’s all remember that the three point line was moved back last season. Seems like 1 ft and about 5 inches wouldn’t matter a great deal but I think shooting percentages dropped this past season ( stat doctors help me if you can).

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Geno, probably began the 3 point shooting in Women''s College basketball as a means of winning. I don't much care for stats so I won't argue the point. However, 20-25 years ago Geno pushed using the 3 because for the same number of 2 shots vs 3 shots you got 1/3 more points (not his exact wording but his idea). But throwing the ball up, without strong rebounders is like throwing up 100 fifty dollar bills in a crowd of Teens and expecting to get 75 percent returned, unless of course they were Notre Dame students. (smile)

For a second, I had stripper club flashbacks.

 

[CocoHusky]

For a second, I had stripper club flashbacks.

I have no Idea what you are talking about!

 

[TeamFirst!]

The bottom line is you want to get to the FF and when you get there you want a good chance to win. We are probably strong enough to get to the final four and our best chance to win it is with an optimized 3 point game. We are probably not going to beat a Stanford or a SC in rebounding next year, but we may well out shoot them. If you look at the math at all with 3 point shooting for this team it's really a no brainer. A lot of teams shoot around 45% overall. We have 3 players who might shoot over 40% from 3.

 

[baggerbob]

Not only were those teams fun to watch they were also UCONN's best teams. That is the missing ingredient of the UCONN teams of the past few season. Gone is the ability to dictate the pace of the game. Gone is most of the transition game and the deep ball from the drag screens in transition. Gone are the easy basket that are the result of running post isolation where UCONN was guaranteed a trip to the foul line or a layup from just about every paint touch. The solution is not to jack up more three pointers although better rebounding is a necessity against SC especially. The solution IMO ( and this will not be a popular one) is to continue to recruit equally skilled basketball players that a better athletes. By better athletes I'm talking about foot speed, being able to jump higher and with quicker reaction times. With Patterson, Shade and Arnold coming in I very encouraged by the level of athleticism that they will potentially bring but I think UCONN will still need more.

When Stewie left the ability for the defense to dictate the pace of play left.
With Stewie, Moriah, Kia, and Gabby could overplay, and pressure opponents.
This forced teams to take a lot of time getting into their offense, forcing bad shots.
The constant pressure led to turnovers and breakaway layups at the other end.

 

[CocoHusky]

When Stewie left the ability for the defense to dictate the pace of play left.
With Stewie, Moriah, Kia, and Gabby could overplay, and pressure opponents.
This forced teams to take a lot of time getting into their offense, forcing bad shots.
The constant pressure led to turnovers and breakaway layups at the other end.

Stewie was certainly an important piece of the defensive component of those teams. But keep in mind that both Gabby and Kia Nurse won consecutive defensive player of the year after Stewie graduated. So the ability to dictate tempo did entirely leave with Stewie. UCONN was also ranked among the top defensive teams in the nation in the two season after Stewie graduated. The 2017-18 was most notable for leading the nation in point differential despite the leading rebounding in the nation ( Natalie Butler) transferring to George Mason. UCONN only lost 2 games in the two season after Stewie graduated and there were at least 1/2 dozen games during that span where UCONN used a change in defensive tempo to decide a game.

 

[Bone Dog]

… UCONN was also ranked among the top defensive teams in the nation in the two season after Stewie graduated.

I think this year, once Paige had returned, we were arguably the top defensive team in the nation again. Certainly one of the top 4.

 

[Bone Dog]

... A lot of teams shoot around 45% overall. We have 3 players who might shoot over 40% from 3.

I suspect we have 4 players who might shoot over 40% from 3 — Paige, Azzi, CD, and Lou.

I just re-watched the MAAC championship and whatever else anyone might say about Lou’s game, she is an awesome shooter.

CD’s 3pt shooting was a bit off last year. I suspect the hip injury had something to do with this. If you watch her in those 3pt shooting contests from HS, she’s clearly one of the best in the land. In one she comes in a close second only to Azzi.

 

[oldhusky]

I suspect we have 4 players who might shoot over 40% from 3 — Paige, Azzi, CD, and Lou.

I just re-watched the MAAC championship and whatever else anyone might say about Lou’s game, she is an awesome shooter.

CD’s 3pt shooting was a bit off last year. I suspect the hip injury had something to do with this. If you watch her in those 3pt shooting contests from HS, she’s clearly one of the best in the land. In one she comes in a close second only to Azzi.

I agree. I expect CD to be much better at the 3 this year. In one of those contests she beat Azzi (who was wearing a boot) in the female championship, then defeated the male champion to be the overall winner. In another video at some kind of high school all star event a reporter asked the players who they thought would win the 3 pt contest and several said Caroline so her reputation as a 3 pt shooter was well established.

 

[CocoHusky]

I think this year, once Paige had returned, we were arguably the top defensive team in the nation again. Certainly one of the top 4.

UCONN was never remotely close to being the top ( or even top 4) defense team in the nation during any stretch of last season. It is also not logical that UCONN was playing better defense upon Paige's return to the team.
Even within the Big East UCONN was not a dominat or clear cut #1 defensive team.

2021-2022 Women's Basketball - Overall Statistics - Big East Conference

The official 2021-2022 Women's Basketball cumulative statistics for Big East Conference

www.bigeast.com

 

[Bone Dog]

UCONN was never remotely close to being the top ( or even top 4) defense team in the nation during any stretch of last season. It is also not logical that UCONN was playing better defense upon Paige's return to the team.
Even within the Big East UCONN was not a dominat or clear cut #1 defensive team.

2021-2022 Women's Basketball - Overall Statistics - Big East Conference

The official 2021-2022 Women's Basketball cumulative statistics for Big East Conference

www.bigeast.com

I may be reading those stats incorrectly, but they appear to confirm my sense of things, namely that at the end of the season UConn was the top defensive team in the BE. It’s hard to know since I’m only referring to the last few games, not the entire season. But I’m also mainly thinking of the NCAA tournament, in which we faced the 3 best teams in the country one after another. Our D against NC St and Stanford was decisively good. Against SC we still played great D, but got beat on the glass. Mostly. When I look at those games, I’m thinking of our energy level on D and how we minimized mistakes we’d been prone to earlier in the year. In the first Creighton game and the first DePaul game, they outhustled us to every loose ball. That was not the case in the final few weeks. And yes, I think it had a lot to do with the return of Paige.

 

[TeamFirst!]

At the beginning of the year I think Paige was playing exceptional defense but at the end she was not the same defensively. I do agree that we were one of the top defenses at the end of the year but maybe not top 4.

 

[Bone Dog]

At the beginning of the year I think Paige was playing exceptional defense but at the end she was not the same defensively. I do agree that we were one of the top defenses at the end of the year but maybe not top 4.

That's fair. Though when I say our D got better when Paige returned, I don't mean she was suddenly playing great D. I mean once her O returned, it allowed the team as a whole to play great D. It's hard to focus on D if you think you can't score easily. In the NC St game, especially in the second half. Paige practically scored at will. The impact on her teammates was palpable at both ends of the court. Similarly, the impact on opponents was demoralizing.

 

[CocoHusky]

I may be reading those stats incorrectly, but they appear to confirm my sense of things, namely that at the end of the season UConn was the top defensive team in the BE. It’s hard to know since I’m only referring to the last few games, not the entire season. But I’m also mainly thinking of the NCAA tournament, in which we faced the 3 best teams in the country one after another. Our D against NC St and Stanford was decisively good. Against SC we still played great D, but got beat on the glass. Mostly. When I look at those games, I’m thinking of our energy level on D and how we minimized mistakes we’d been prone to earlier in the year. In the first Creighton game and the first DePaul game, they outhustled us to every loose ball. That was not the case in the final few weeks. And yes, I think it had a lot to do with the return of Paige.

My Apologies for providing a bad link. UCONN played 17 BE games last season I'm not sure why the tables have not been updated to reflect all the BE games played vs the 5 and 6 games that indicated in the bad link.
This is a better link:
https://bigeastconf_ftp.sidearmsports.com/custompages/sports/w-baskbl/2021-2022/confldrs.htm
I still stand by my prior statement "Even within the Big East UCONN was not a dominat or clear cut #1 defensive team."
Specifically within the BE UCONN was not #1 in Steals, Blocked shots, rebounding Margin, rebounding defense, defensive rebounds or defensive rebound %. It would take a dominat defensive team within the BE or any conference really to contend for a Top 4 defensive spot nationally.
Regarding Paige and her return to the lineup, the team had actually started to play better defense prior to her return to the line up.
Beginning with Marquette on 2/23/22 UCONN held 4 consecutive opponents to 38 or fewer points. Another indication that this defense run had very little to do with Paige's return is that her minutes played in those 4 games were 0, 13, 13 & 18. Yet a third indication is that UCONN held Marquette to 38 points without Paige and gave up 51 to Marquette with Paige playing 18 minutes.

 

[Bone Dog]

Regarding Paige and her return to the lineup, the team had actually started to play better defense prior to her return to the line up.
Beginning with Marquette on 2/23/22 UCONN held 4 consecutive opponents to 38 or fewer points. Another indication that this defense run had very little to do with Paige's return is that her minutes played in those 4 games were 0, 13, 13 & 18. Yet a third indication is that UCONN held Marquette to 38 points without Paige and gave up 51 to Marquette with Paige playing 18 minutes.

I’m glad to see you agree with me that in the last month or so, we started playing great D. This was my main point, not the absurd claim you seemed to want to attribute to me that they played great D all season.

You are right to point out that in my exuberance I credited Paige’s offensive production with this improvement prematurely. It seems to have coincided with the emergence of Azzi’s hitting her stride on offense. But even this supports my broader (though less satisfying) point that in some cases confidence on O supports excellence on D.

Finally, my primary interest in any of this was to suggest that in the later rounds of the NCAA tournament we played awesome D. What happened in the Big East is at best tangentially relevant to this thought. I am however glad to see it confirmed by your observation about what began in that Marquette game.

Why do I care about this very subjective assessment of our late season D? Because it gives me the confidence to think we might return to D-awesomeness in November and carry it through to the NC.

Also, a side note: while stats on steals and blocks are informative, they don’t tell the whole story. Disrupting the opponent’s O can be accomplished even without these. Chasing down loose balls strikes me as more indicative of general defensive awesomeness.

 

[TeamFirst!]

I AGREE with Coco's last post overall. Our defense peaked just before Paige came back in my opinion. I do think at the beginning of the year though a strong case could be made that Paige was our best defender. She led the team in steals 2 seasons ago and was on pace to do it again at the beginning of last year. It's more than steals of course but steals are an important indicator. Paige is great at team defense.

Just before Paige came back I think we might have been top 10 or better but Paige's injury hurt them defensively and with her return she was more of a defensive liability than before.

 

[TeamFirst!]

When a positive team attribute is exceptional it can have compounding effects. For example, if Boston is a great rebounder that can have a positive effect on others like Ssxton and vice versa. Players try to focus on keeping Boston off the boards which frees up Saxton. Both tip the ball up towards the basket keeping the ball active often resulting in multiple putback attempts…etc.

The same is true for 3 point shooters. Are you going to guard Azzi, Paige and Lou at the 3 point line? It has a compounding effect. Last year the other team left Nika open quite often for a reason. They couldn’t stop everyone. Lou should have a lot of scoring opportunities next year.

 

[Cuango]

You keep repeating this mantra that UCONN is a "terrific" 3Pt shooting team-although in fairness you did use the word "potential" in your original post. This is simply not supported by the stats. UCONN shot 33.79 % from behind the arc last season. That was the lowest 3PTFG% for a UCONN team going back a full decade for the stats I've been able to check. That stat puts UCONN at #56 ranked team in the country in 3pt shooting. The former Syracuse WBB coach Quentin Hillsman had a similar philosophy-it didn't matter how many you make just keep putting up threes. I questioned Q's philosophy then and would also question your proposal to have next season's UCONN team start launching more threes. BTW Hillsman should have been fired for malpractice but it was abusive behavior that eventually caught up to him.

View attachment 76214

I don’t think last year’s team stats should be used as as anything but a demonstration of how injuries affect a talented team. While I am no fortune teller, I would bet a lot of money that our 3pt percentage will rise precipitously next season, assuming we are healthy, of course! It is very conceivable that we could have three 38+% 3pt shooters next season possibly 4 if Caroline’s hip was responsible for her poor % last year. Combine that with better rebounding, potentially stronger post play, a more experienced (especially defensively), hungry, and (most important) fully healthy team, and you have imo, a legitimate chance for a return to the glory days. (Not that we have been chopped liver recently) I can’t wait!