90 Minute Thread: White Wine?

[Waquoit]

Gewurtz...

Nobody actually enjoys drinking that, do they? I thought people just bought it (usually around TG) because they read somewhere it pairs with turkey.

 

[Zissou]

Nobody actually enjoys drinking that, do they? I thought people just bought it (usually around TG) because they read somewhere it pairs with turkey.

It’s not my favorite, but it’s popular

 

[Zissou]

Beware of wine snobs. They are likely just amateurs that have gained some knowledge and experience but have an oversized impression of themselves.

Enjoy what you like! You like an ice cube in your white wine? Go for it.

 

[Waquoit]

Beware of wine snobs.

I agree but I wasn't running into to many lately, if any (pre-COVID). Not like 25 years ago, anyway.

 

[8893]

Great rundown here. I spent three years in Italy and would say that Gavi di Gavi and Vernaccia di San Gimignano are two of the more consistently good Italian whites. They can be challenging to find stateside. I like Vermentino as well and recently had an excellent one from Texas. Yup, Texas.

Yeah, I get most of my wine from Mt. Carmel Wine & Spirits in Hamden, which has a great relationship with the distributors and is the place they go to get rid of their closeouts at serious discounts. They have an outstanding selection and are very helpful and knowledgeable, and they send a blast e-mail every Friday afternoon with new closeouts. Otherwise, the balance comes from flash sales on Last Bottle or purchases from Coastal Wine and Spirits in Branford, which has an amazing selection, decent prices and very knowledgeable and helpful wine guy (the guy with the long white ponytail and white beard).

Gavi is probably the one I have the easiest time finding, including on an increasing number of restaurant wine lists. If they have an Italian white other than Pinot Grigio, it's most likely to be Gavi.

I am a recovering. An ex smoker, an ex of many things. I have heard pink is becoming a thing?

Like Chablis, rose wine suffered for a few decades from a bad reputation earned by California's bastardization of it, in this case with "White Zinfandel" and "blush" wines. Beringer and Sutter Home alone killed it with their White Zinfandel, which was cloyingly sweet and ubiquitous for decades.

But they have been making great roses in Europe forever, and they are great food wines, very varied and almost never sweet. The ones from Provence have been sold widely here for decades, but in recent years it has become a lot more popular here and we are finally getting some good and interesting ones from Italy, Austria, Spain, Portugal and South Africa, as well as ones from other regions in France.

Like my taste in whites, I tend towards the Italian roses ("rosato") as well, and you can increasingly find them made from some very interesting grapes with really distinct flavor profiles. Sancerre also produces some really nice ones, usually made from pinot noir grapes.

 

[NJHusky]

Gruner Veltliner is my go-to. Great food wine and tremendous value.

Albariño from Spain also.

This! Gruner is my first choice...but Albarinos are great...I would also consider a Sancerre

 

[NJHusky]

Great rundown here. I spent three years in Italy and would say that Gavi di Gavi and Vernaccia di San Gimignano are two of the more consistently good Italian whites. They can be challenging to find stateside. I like Vermentino as well and recently had an excellent one from Texas. Yup, Texas.

care to share which one? A good wine from Texas? As in USA Texas? I know there is an Italy, Texas, is there a Texas in Italy?

 

[NJHusky]

Yeah, I get most of my wine from Mt. Carmel Wine & Spirits in Hamden, which has a great relationship with the distributors and is the place they go to get rid of their closeouts at serious discounts. They have an outstanding selection and are very helpful and knowledgeable, and they send a blast e-mail every Friday afternoon with new closeouts. Otherwise, the balance comes from flash sales on Last Bottle or purchases from Coastal Wine and Spirits in Branford, which has an amazing selection, decent prices and very knowledgeable and helpful wine guy (the guy with the long white ponytail and white beard).

Gavi is probably the one I have the easiest time finding, including on an increasing number of restaurant wine lists. If they have an Italian white other than Pinot Grigio, it's most likely to be Gavi.


Like Chablis, rose wine suffered for a few decades from a bad reputation earned by California's bastardization of it, in this case with "White Zinfandel" and "blush" wines. Beringer and Sutter Home alone killed it with their White Zinfandel, which was cloyingly sweet and ubiquitous for decades.

But they have been making great roses in Europe forever, and they are great food wines, very varied and almost never sweet. The ones from Provence have been sold widely here for decades, but in recent years it has become a lot more popular here and we are finally getting some good and interesting ones from Italy, Austria, Spain, Portugal and South Africa, as well as ones from other regions in France.

Like my taste in whites, I tend towards the Italian roses ("rosato") as well, and you can increasingly find them made from some very interesting grapes with really distinct flavor profiles. Sancerre also produces some really nice ones, usually made from pinot noir grapes.

Since I agree with almost everything you wrote in this thread...care to share some of your Rose choices. My wife loves then hanging by the pool. I usually just pick one from Provence since I have no idea

 

[8893]

Since I agree with almost everything you wrote in this thread...care to share some of your Rose choices. My wife loves then hanging by the pool. I usually just pick one from Provence since I have no idea

Sticking with the Rosatos:

The two I always get a case of from Last Bottle are Bertani's Bertarose, which is from Veneto and made from 75% Molinara and 25% Merlot; and Massimo Rivetti's Viarivetti22, which is from the Langhe (Piedmont) and made from pinot noir grapes. I think I pay $11 a bottle for the Bertarose and $10 for the Rivetti, each of which is around a 50% discount from the regular price.

Last year I also found one from the Langhe that was made from Nebbiolo grapes and it was excellent and also around $10 a bottle or less on a closeout from Mt. Carmel. I can't remember the producer, but if you see any Rosato from Piedmont I don't think you will be disappointed.

Probably one of the easier ones to find, which is also delicious, is Pasqua's 11 Minutes Rose, from Verona and made with Corvina, Trebbiano, Syrah and Carmenere. I've seen this in several package stores, usually around $15, and people seem to like the bottle because it looks little different:

My practice in general is to try any Italian rosato that I haven't tried before. I have yet to be disappointed, so I would recommend buying any you can find if you don't see any of these.

As for France, Provence makes some of the best, and they also make some of the crappiest, so it is easy to go wrong there imo unless you know the maker or have a recommendation from someone. Sancerre roses, on the other hand, have never disappointed me, but you have to watch the price because I've seen some of them in the $20s and I won't spend that on a rose. Whenever I see a deal on Sancerre roses at Last Bottle or Mt. Carmel, I get a case.

A lot of people only drink roses in the warm weather, but I drink them all year round.

Sparkling roses and rosatos are also very nice, and people love them when I bring them to parties and dinners, etc. Bottle looks pretty and everyone loves the taste.

 

[August_West]

Nobody actually enjoys drinking that, do they? I thought people just bought it (usually around TG) because they read somewhere it pairs with turkey.

The better examples are really good.

 

[Peacefrog]

care to share which one? A good wine from Texas? As in USA Texas? I know there is an Italy, Texas, is there a Texas in Italy?

Sure, it was from Bingham Family Winery. They had several good wines; whites and reds. I went to three wineries a year and a half ago and one of them was about what I expected. the wines were drinkable but not particularly good. The other two, of which Bingham was one, were very good across the board. I was talked into doing it by two South African friends that were coming over. I did my best to talk them out of it, convinced there couldn't be any good wine there. I mean, I haven't ever seen any in distribution. I was wrong. The experience in the tasting rooms was superior to Napa which has become overrun and costly. I was west of Austin, near Fredricksburg. They have a second wine region up near Lubbock I think.

 

[8893]

Sure, it was from Bingham Family Winery. They had several good wines; whites and reds. I went to three wineries a year and a half ago and one of them was about what I expected. the wines were drinkable but not particularly good. The other two, of which Bingham was one, were very good across the board. I was talked into doing it by two South African friends that were coming over. I did my best to talk them out of it, convinced there couldn't be any good wine there. I mean, I haven't ever seen any in distribution. I was wrong. The experience in the tasting rooms was superior to Napa which has become overrun and costly. I was west of Austin, near Fredricksburg. They have a second wine region up near Lubbock I think.

The Grey Moss Inn, outside San Antonio, has one of the best wine lists I've ever seen. A former colleague of mine who used to be a sommelier moved to Texas in the early 2000s and I asked for his recommendations of good places to go when we were there for the NCAAs in 2004. He recommended this place and we had an epic meal there.

 

[Peacefrog]

The bottom line is that in blind tastings of regular people, there is no correlation between the wines they like and the price of the wine. In fact, the paper found a slightly negative correlation, suggesting that regular people actually prefer cheaper wines."
[/QUOTE]

I'm going to weigh in on this argument and kind of play both sides. Someone else in this thread indicated they were from the Charlotte area; I go to a store here called The Winestore. There is one in Blakeney and one in South Park. Anyway, they have tasting machines so you can try before you buy which is nice. They hold many blind tastings throughout the year and the wines in the lineup range from $10 or $12 up to $80 and there are typically eight of them. There are a good 100-200 people that participate and the winners are routinely in the $15-$20 range, occasionally $20-$25 range. The big boys never win and I will admit that while I often choose a $30-$40 bottle, I have never chosen a $50+ bottle and have sometimes chosen a $15-$20 bottle.

There is a caveat however. I feel that the more expensive bottles have more structure but are still too tannic and are not yet drinking well. The $15-$25 bottles are ready to drink and not built to age. I've experienced this in some barrel tastings I've done. I'm sure the wines were ultimately going to be awesome but at that stage of the process they tasted terrible and I don't have a good enough palette to recognize the potential. I only know what I taste in the moment. So I guess what I'm saying is that it might not be a fair comparison. The $80 bottle might need to be 5-10 years old versus a $15 recent vintage. I think I might be able to tell then but who knows.

 

[Peacefrog]

The Grey Moss Inn, outside San Antonio, has one of the best wine lists I've ever seen. A former colleague of mine who used to be a sommelier moved to Texas in the early 2000s and I asked for his recommendations of good places to go when we were there for the NCAAs in 2004. He recommended this place and we had an epic meal there.

Check out Bern's Steakhouse in Tampa. The wine list is longer than the Bible. They supposedly have 100,000 bottles in the restaurant and hundreds of thousands more in a warehouse nearby.

 

[8893]

There is a caveat however. I feel that the more expensive bottles have more structure but are still too tannic and are not yet drinking well. The $15-$25 bottles are ready to drink and not built to age. I've experienced this in some barrel tastings I've done. I'm sure the wines were ultimately going to be awesome but at that stage of the process they tasted terrible and I don't have a good enough palette to recognize the potential. I only know what I taste in the moment. So I guess what I'm saying is that it might not be a fair comparison. The $80 bottle might need to be 5-10 years old versus a $15 recent vintage. I think I might be able to tell then but who knows.

Sometimes they might need decanting to let the tannins subside, too. This has been a great tool to accelerate that process; a waiter used one for a bottle I ordered at a restaurant in L.A. around ten years ago and I went and bought one for myself the day I got home:

 

[NJHusky]

Check out Bern's Steakhouse in Tampa. The wine list is longer than the Bible. They supposedly have 100,000 bottles in the restaurant and hundreds of thousands more in a warehouse nearby.

I've not been so can't comment on the wine list, but several of our neighbors had gone in the past year and all said it's not the same as in the day and overpriced for what it is now. Living off their name was a common critique

 

[8893]

Check out Bern's Steakhouse in Tampa. The wine list is longer than the Bible. They supposedly have 100,000 bottles in the restaurant and hundreds of thousands more in a warehouse nearby.

Ha! I was there in '99 for that Final Four! Agreed, insane wine list. Great place. We did the whole deal there: Chateaubriand, great bottle of Cab, dessert room, cigars and port.

 

[dvegas]

Then of course, there is the most popular kosher wine ......



"I wanna go shopping at Bloomingdales"



Signed, an MOT

 

[Peacefrog]

I've not been so can't comment on the wine list, but several of our neighbors had gone in the past year and all said it's not the same as in the day and overpriced for what it is now. Living off their name was a common critique

Ah, too bad. I haven't been in probably 20 years. It was a unique experience back then.

 

[storrsroars]

Albariño from Spain also.

Or Alvarinho from Portgual (same grape). My go-to for any firm white fish, although excellent on its own. Our state stores don't have a wide selection of them, so it's usually Martin Codax for about $14.

I'd also take a look at some white blends, which can be very interesting. Long time fan of Conundrum, which has dropped in price significantly over the past 20 years. And some similar blends of 3-5 different varietals coming out of some excellent South African wineries, like Avondale or Vergelegen

It's rare I'll drop more than $20 on a white these days. I used to be a big Graves fan when I was flush, but I'm not that spendy these days, although I'll still pick up a bottle of Chateau Rahoul if I find it under $25 here in PA.

 

[methodology]

Albariño from Spain also.

I really enjoy this albarino

La Val Albarino 2019

La Val Albarino Rias Baixas 2017

www.wiredforwine.com

 

[8893]

Or Alvarinho from Portgual (same grape). My go-to for any firm white fish, although excellent on its own. Our state stores don't have a wide selection of them, so it's usually Martin Codax for about $14.

I'd also take a look at some white blends, which can be very interesting. Long time fan of Conundrum, which has dropped in price significantly over the past 20 years. And some similar blends of 3-5 different varietals coming out of some excellent South African wineries, like Avondale or Vergelegen

It's rare I'll drop more than $20 on a white these days. I used to be a big Graves fan when I was flush, but I'm not that spendy these days, although I'll still pick up a bottle of Chateau Rahoul if I find it under $25 here in PA.

I've only had a couple Alvarinhos and I've liked them a lot. I don't see a lot of them here, either.

I used to really like Conundrum but haven't had it or thought about it in at least 10-15 years because I stopped spending the money for it when I started to find other interesting whites much less expensive; interesting to hear about the price drop. I will look for it again and see how it compares to my memory of it.

I'm with you on the price range. Unless it's a really special occasion, I try to keep it under $15 for whites and roses, and I'm giddy when I score closeouts for $10 or less.

 

[NJHusky]

Ah, too bad. I haven't been in probably 20 years. It was a unique experience back then.

Atmosphere is similar but was told service and food quality was not what they expected for the $$$$

 

[NJHusky]

I've only had a couple Alvarinhos and I've liked them a lot. I don't see a lot of them here, either.

I used to really like Conundrum but haven't had it or thought about it in at least 10-15 years because I stopped spending the money for it when I started to find other interesting whites much less expensive; interesting to hear about the price drop. I will look for it again and see how it compares to my memory of it.

I'm with you on the price range. Unless it's a really special occasion, I try to keep it under $15 for whites and roses, and I'm giddy when I score closeouts for $10 or less.

Thx for all the recommendations. Will make me go beyond my usual buys on my next trip. This thread has been great. Keep adding new suggestions folks.

 

[storrsroars]

I've only had a couple Alvarinhos and I've liked them a lot. I don't see a lot of them here, either.

I used to really like Conundrum but haven't had it or thought about it in at least 10-15 years because I stopped spending the money for it when I started to find other interesting whites much less expensive; interesting to hear about the price drop. I will look for it again and see how it compares to my memory of it.

I'm with you on the price range. Unless it's a really special occasion, I try to keep it under $15 for whites and roses, and I'm giddy when I score closeouts for $10 or less.

I fell in love with Conundrum in the 90s, when it was pushing $40/bottle. It's now in the $15-$20 range. Because of how it's made (and that Caymus always said it was "an experiment"), it always had the potential to vary significantly from year to year, but I always eagerly anticipated the next year's bottling. Caymus split it off as its own thing sometime in the 00s and I think it's not as complex or surprising as it used to be, but at the same time, in the new lower price range, I think it's still an exceptional value and very unique/drinkable/enjoyable compared to a lot of other bottles in the $15-$20 range.