OT: 2023 Kentucky Derby

[August_West]

Here's a key difference: For many athletes, going pro is something they've worked all their lives to change their economic status, potentially for generations to come. It's a risk they sign up for. They know their careers are short, they're mostly aware of the risks of injury.

Racehorses don't see any of the money they win. They don't understand the risks. They simply do as told.

Youve just made a case pretty much stating in many cases human athletes are horses. You know this, right?

 

[storrsroars]

Youve just made a case pretty much stating in many cases human athletes are horses. You know this, right?

I don't think so. If you were singled out by some party official in Yakutsk back in day, sent to a special camp for athletes, forced to compete while injured, and didn't see a dime out of it, you still had the option of trying to escape or committing suicide. Horses don't have that.

And outside of an example like that, it wouldn't be true as there's pretty much always an aspirational angle to become a pro athlete, even if you ultimately get screwed.

 

[storrsroars]

A Kentucky home for retired racehorses

Since 2003, the non-profit Old Friends has provided a retirement home for aging equines, founded by a former film critic whose love of horses drew him to gamble on a new vocation, which is paying out in unexpected ways.

www.cbsnews.com

Wow. That looks awful.

Did the horses choose that place? No. It was compassionate humans who did it all for the horses.

Your argument about hypocrisy pretty much sucks. So I'll make a better one for you. If the argument is that horse racing is cruel and abusive to animals, why do posters complaining about cruelty and animal abuse still eat factory-farmed chicken and beef?

That's hypocrisy. And one that I myself am guilty of (although I buy probably 80% of my proteins from non-factory farms).

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Nope. All horses are feral. There were some in the Mongolia that were thought to be wild but have been discounted with recent research.

What's the difference? (Serious question, I have no idea.)

 

[Puparoni]

Not one mention of Mage here or anywhere else I went to yesterday. Everyone I know lost. On to the Preakness!!!

My wife and our friend both hit the exacta. Me...not so much

 

[ColchVEGAS]

What's the difference? (Serious question, I have no idea.)

I could be wrong but I believe its just that at one point wild horses were collected and bred for domestic purposes and then ultimately the domesticated ones were released back in to the "wild." I am guessing it has something to do with where the bloodline of the wild/feral population started.

 

[Deepster]

Horse racing only exists for gambling. It should go away now that people can more easily and legally gamble on events where competitors aren't regularly euthanized on the field/court/pitch.

Right. Then we can gamble on quarterbacks who have their brains turned into scrambled eggs every Sunday instead.

 

[Fishy]

What's the difference? (Serious question, I have no idea.)

Effectively, nothing.

It’s a semantic distinction unless you’re planning to capture one and attempt to train it.

You could probably catch a mustang and have a reasonable chance of domesticating it while a zebra would just keep trying to kill you until it succeeded or you gave up.

 

[Deepster]

Did the horses choose that place? No. It was compassionate humans who did it all for the horses.

Your argument about hypocrisy pretty much sucks. So I'll make a better one for you. If the argument is that horse racing is cruel and abusive to animals, why do posters complaining about cruelty and animal abuse still eat factory-farmed chicken and beef?

That's hypocrisy. And one that I myself am guilty of (although I buy probably 80% of my proteins from non-factory farms).

It's all hypocrisy. And, every summer, a few horses die and the Karens of the world scream to the heavens how cruel it is and how it should be discontinued.....while wearing leather shoes and carrying a leather handbag, using a cell phone that some 6 year old helped make working 16 hour days in some factory in China.

 

[Fishy]

Here's a key difference: For many athletes, going pro is something they've worked all their lives to change their economic status, potentially for generations to come. It's a risk they sign up for. They know their careers are short, they're mostly aware of the risks of injury.

Racehorses don't see any of the money they win. They don't understand the risks. They simply do as told.

Are Racehorses Abused? The Cruel Facts Of Horseracing.

Building on that….should people be allowed to own pets?

The animals have no say in the matter and in most cases, they’re the product of some odd genetic tampering by humans and likely suffer from health conditions relating to that tampering. (Nature did not produce your goldendoodle.)

The outcome is likely poor for most animals bred to be pets - certainly millions suffer needlessly because you need to cuddle something that probably realizes that it needs to play its role so that its needs for survival are met.

It’s bad for the animal, it’s bad for the environment, especially as it relates to cats, and there’s really no argument that the animals as a whole are better off.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Effectively, nothing.

It’s a semantic distinction unless you’re planning to capture one and attempt to train it.

You could probably catch a mustang and have a reasonable chance of domesticating it while a zebra would just keep trying to kill you until it succeeded or you gave up.

Well there goes my weekend.

 

[Fishy]

Well there goes my weekend.

My uncle was NYPD for 25 years and then in the Army for 20 more. When he retired, he, a city boy, bought a farm in way upstate NY.

He always complained that all of the animals basically accepted him except for the goats. He tried to be nice for them for years and they kept trying to kill him until the day he gave up and asked someone to take em away.

 

[phillionaire]

Right. Then we can gamble on quarterbacks who have their brains turned into scrambled eggs every Sunday instead.

How many quarterbacks have been euthanized on gameday and then had the game go on?

 

[Chin Diesel]

What's the difference? (Serious question, I have no idea.)

Little Johnny comes home with a note from his math teacher saying parents have to come in for a parent/teacher conference.

Dad asked what happened.

Little Johnny said the math teacher asked what was 4+2 and he said he raised his hand answered six.
Then the teacher asked what is 2+4.

The dad looks at Little Johnny and says "4+2 or 2+4, what's the ph uck ing difference?".
Little Johnny looked at his dad and says "That's what I said".

 

[Palatine]

I use to like to go to the track.

And then I looked deeper and found that it leads to north of 2,000 dead horses in the USA alone. Horse racing is a non-stop tragedy. At that point I choose not to participate or watch.

It's a choice that people can make for themselves. And the steers I eat as beef probably live a better lives than most of the horses born into racing. They don't have to mangle their bodies. They eat, die, and probably suffer less than most of the food chain.

 

[Deepster]

How many quarterbacks have been euthanized on gameday and then had the game go on?

Oh. That’s inhumane. But a QB in his 50s with dementia that suffers from memory loss and mental illness and eventually kills himself is better.

 

[Deepster]

I use to like to go to the track.

And then I looked deeper and found that it leads to north of 2,000 dead horses in the USA alone. Horse racing is a non-stop tragedy. At that point I choose not to participate or watch.

It's a choice that people can make for themselves. And the steers I eat as beef probably live a better lives than most of the horses born into racing. They don't have to mangle their bodies. They eat, die, and probably suffer less than most of the food chain.

LOL. As they willingly trot into the slaughterhouse.

 

[Deepster]

I use to like to go to the track.

And then I looked deeper and found that it leads to north of 2,000 dead horses in the USA alone. Horse racing is a non-stop tragedy. At that point I choose not to participate or watch.

It's a choice that people can make for themselves. And the steers I eat as beef probably live a better lives than most of the horses born into racing. They don't have to mangle their bodies. They eat, die, and probably suffer less than most of the food chain.

North of 2,000? Or under 400?

Nearly 400 thoroughbreds suffered fatal injuries while racing in 2021

The numbers for 2021 fatalities reflect only a slight improvement in horse safety.

www.wave3.com

 

[Waquoit]

And the steers I eat as beef probably live a better lives than most of the horses born into racing.

They probably don't. All those steers die young. Most racehorses die of natural causes.

 

[Waquoit]

I could be wrong but I believe its just that at one point wild horses were collected and bred for domestic purposes and then ultimately the domesticated ones were released back in to the "wild." I am guessing it has something to do with where the bloodline of the wild/feral population started.

Here's a podcast that explains the whole thing.

 

[phillionaire]

Oh. That’s inhumane. But a QB in his 50s with dementia that suffers from memory loss and mental illness and eventually kills himself is better.

Nice false equivalency very good faith argument to compare a person that willingly plays a sport to a horse that has no say in its living conditions! You like betting the ponies and don’t like the cognitive dissonance that these discussions cause.

 

[Waquoit]

What's the difference? (Serious question, I have no idea.)

I guess the main point is that you couldn't release horses back into the wild because that's not where they came from. The entire horse population of the world was domesticated at one time. Mustangs come from horses that escaped from the Spanish during their new world conquests.

 

[Palatine]

LOL. As they willingly trot into the slaughterhouse.

We all go into the slaughterhouse. But we shouldn't torture anyone along the way.

I don't have any judgement on your opinion of racing, it's just different from mine. But you seem to rejoice in your insentivity and I do question that.

 

[B1GEast]

Serious question: you get to lock in the odds of a racing bet at the time you make the bet? It's not part of the pari-mutuel pool?

Honestly I don't know how the pool is ultimately determined. I use the winners app. I would assume that that payouts are based on the aggregate bet amount.

You can lock a bet at anytime with the app, but if your wager includes a scratched horse, the bet is off and the funds are returned to your balance. The night before the Derby, Derma was at 20 to 1, Angel of Empire was at 15 to 1, a bunch of odds changed on Forte was scratched.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

But you seem to rejoice in your insentivity and I do question that.

What's to question?

He picks his position, and thereafter the position controls the narrative. He remains stuck in a box of his own creation.

Nobody's better at self-owning, and with no chance of escape, he can't do anything but claim he's the winner. Perpetual flex.

Like his heroes, he seems to believe his hustle (which he mistakes for integrity), but gets annoyed if any flaws are exposed.

When a thread shows signs of whiplashed replies and 'missing' posts, I can logout, and more often than not confirm that a foolish consistency is indeed the hobgoblin of a little mind. I'm glad he ignores me. It saves both of us time.

It's enough that you and others aren't fooled. Expressing disgust or fashioning a counterargument isn't worth it.