1:42 in the 3rd Aaliyah Foul | The Boneyard

1:42 in the 3rd Aaliyah Foul

psconn

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I've looked at this over and over I could see a common foul on Aaliyah but DANG, how is that not a tech on the Marquette kid?!?! She almost managed to injure both Aaliyah and her own teammate.

Apologies if this has been beaten to death earlier. I went through most of the post-game and don't recall it being discussed.
 

CL82

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I've looked at this over and over I could see a common foul on Aaliyah but DANG, how is that not a tech on the Marquette kid?!?! She almost managed to injure both Aaliyah and her own teammate.

Apologies if this has been beaten to death earlier. I went through most of the post-game and don't recall it being discussed.
Yep, she hooked Aaliyah‘s arm and threw her into her teammate. That was one of the times I yelled at the TV during that game.
 
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I've looked at this over and over I could see a common foul on Aaliyah but DANG, how is that not a tech on the Marquette kid?!?! She almost managed to injure both Aaliyah and her own teammate.

Apologies if this has been beaten to death earlier. I went through most of the post-game and don't recall it being discussed.
These refs often see the aftermath and not what actually happened. Which makes sense when they need to look at a replay for 5 minutes for far less. I think prior to next season...they need to review flopping, the little incident contact, ad offensive players invading the vertical space of the defender. As far as I'm concerned, if you jump straight up, then you are in legal guarding position and should have a right to that vertical space. I'm not crazy about the charge circle either. It's too big.
 
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Yeah, that was really outrageous! I could not believe they didn’t call a foul there! I guess I should be grateful she didn’t get hurt but those kinds of missed calls (whether deliberate or missed) are the ones that imo coaches should send in to the NCAA!
 

cabbie191

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Yes, it would have been nice if the refs had picked up what happened to Edwards but we all know the reality. And in particular when there is a change of possession and players are sprinting to the other basket, as was the case when Edwards was mugged, you have only three pairs of eyes trying to see the entire court in split second real time. Refs can't cover every player all the time when the teams are spread out.

Particularly in basketball and football, we can all cite egregious examples of missed fouls or fouls called when they shouldn't have been. But since the introduction of replay when as viewers we get to see infractions (and non-infractions) repeated and in slow motion, I'm actually impressed with how accurate most refs and umpires are the majority of time.

From my own personal experience, I've done score keeping for rec league basketball games. Much more limited responsibility than working as a referee but there were times it was a struggle for me to know who to credit with a score, keep up with fouls accurately, etc. - and these were players I knew well being my town!

Some days I yell at the refs but most games I think they do a reasonably good job.
 
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These refs often see the aftermath and not what actually happened. Which makes sense when they need to look at a replay for 5 minutes for far less. I think prior to next season...they need to review flopping, the little incident contact, ad offensive players invading the vertical space of the defender. As far as I'm concerned, if you jump straight up, then you are in legal guarding position and should have a right to that vertical space. I'm not crazy about the charge circle either. It's too big.

Question - was the charge circle smaller in the past? Asking out of curiousity as I still find some of the NCAA rules different from FIBA which is used for youth basketball in Canada.

How much smaller could the circle get though? To me, it would seem that a defender would be just under the rim which isn't much of a defensive position.
 
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Question - was the charge circle smaller in the past? Asking out of curiousity as I still find some of the NCAA rules different from FIBA which is used for youth basketball in Canada.

How much smaller could the circle get though? To me, it would seem that a defender would be just under the rim which isn't much of a defensive position.
Not sure. I like the wider lanes and to be honest, I would eliminate the charge circle and just call a regular foul if warranted. One less thing refs have to check and players too.
 

CL82

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Yes, it would have been nice if the refs had picked up what happened to Edwards but we all know the reality. And in particular when there is a change of possession and players are sprinting to the other basket, as was the case when Edwards was mugged, you have only three pairs of eyes trying to see the entire court in split second real time. Refs can't cover every player all the time when the teams are spread out.

Particularly in basketball and football, we can all cite egregious examples of missed fouls or fouls called when they shouldn't have been. But since the introduction of replay when as viewers we get to see infractions (and non-infractions) repeated and in slow motion, I'm actually impressed with how accurate most refs and umpires are the majority of time.

From my own personal experience, I've done score keeping for rec league basketball games. Much more limited responsibility than working as a referee but there were times it was a struggle for me to know who to credit with a score, keep up with fouls accurately, etc. - and these were players I knew well being my town!

Some days I yell at the refs but most games I think they do a reasonably good job.
Your reply made me laugh. There are plenty of times that I thought I saw some thing in real time but when I looked at the replay I saw the rest got it right. Of course there are also plenty of times that they get it wrong.
 
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I agree that was a horrible call but the last thing sports needs is more reviews. Personally, I would do away with them entirely but that’s me.
 
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I agree that was a horrible call but the last thing sports needs is more reviews. Personally, I would do away with them entirely but that’s me.
We need reviews. Referees are not God, some are even crooked.
 

vtcwbuff

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We need reviews. Referees are not God, some are even crooked.
Name one. It's fine to question their expertise, but to make such an accusation you gotta' have some facts.
 
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We need reviews. Referees are not God, some are even crooked.
Who said they were God? And if a ref is crooked he or she will have made their mark on the game long before the interminable succession of reviews that turn the last two minutes of a game into an hour long event, very much so more on the mens side but the women’s game is getting there.
Why not have a time review every time a ball goes out of bounds so the clock is correct for 40 minutes instead of only the last two? By the very nature of the rule the last two minutes maybe should be at 2:30 or 1:30 minutes, no one knows.
Or why not review every time there is a question of who the ball goes out on, can’t every single possession affect the momentum or outcome of a close game, not just those in the same last two minutes?
I hate reviews because it is IMPOSSIBLE to get every call right even with them and to cherry pick what and when you can review adds absolutely nothing to the integrity of the games. So you break the flow of a game and do nothing but give the semblance of “getting it right”.
 

MSGRET

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Question - was the charge circle smaller in the past? Asking out of curiousity as I still find some of the NCAA rules different from FIBA which is used for youth basketball in Canada.

How much smaller could the circle get though? To me, it would seem that a defender would be just under the rim which isn't much of a defensive position.
Actually it was bigger, at one time you had two circles, one for the men's and one for the women's game. A couple of years ago they made the women's the same as the men's.
 
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Who said they were God? And if a ref is crooked he or she will have made their mark on the game long before the interminable succession of reviews that turn the last two minutes of a game into an hour long event, very much so more on the mens side but the women’s game is getting there.
Why not have a time review every time a ball goes out of bounds so the clock is correct for 40 minutes instead of only the last two? By the very nature of the rule the last two minutes maybe should be at 2:30 or 1:30 minutes, no one knows.
Or why not review every time there is a question of who the ball goes out on, can’t every single possession affect the momentum or outcome of a close game, not just those in the same last two minutes?
I hate reviews because it is IMPOSSIBLE to get every call right even with them and to cherry pick what and when you can review adds absolutely nothing to the integrity of the games. So you break the flow of a game and do nothing but give the semblance of “getting it right”.
Some reviews are at the discretion of referees. The process is to help them do their jobs better. They obviously are not very good. They are usually undecided and took too long, even after viewing the replay ad nauseam. TV commentators saw the correct call almost immediately after viewing the replay once..... If they were so good that we don't need reviews, why are we having this conversation? over and over, after every game? Fun, huh?
 
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Some reviews are at the discretion of referees. The process is to help them do their jobs better. They obviously are not very good. They are usually undecided and took too long, even after viewing the replay ad nauseam. TV commentators saw the correct call almost immediately after viewing the replay once..... If they were so good that we don't need reviews, why are we having this conversation? over and over, after every game? Fun, huh?
Well, you missed the essence of my reply, so let me try another way. Referees make many mistakes but selective reviews DO NOT improve the quality of refereeing or make the outcomes of games any ‘fairer” in any way shape or form. To be fair, you absolutely have to try to correct all mistakes, which obviously is impossible, or none; so I vote for none.
 
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I can't. The ref was RIGHT there. Like, directly in front of the play. When people complain that WBB officials are just not as good as the quality of play, you can point to that play as proof. That was hideous.
 

MSGRET

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The ref was right there, she blew the whistle while AE was still tangled up with the Marquette player, AE was thrown down after that. It was clear what happened and it should have been reviewed. I bet AE was shocked that the foul was on her and not the Marquette player.
 

JoePgh

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I've looked at this over and over I could see a common foul on Aaliyah but DANG, how is that not a tech on the Marquette kid?!?! She almost managed to injure both Aaliyah and her own teammate.

Apologies if this has been beaten to death earlier. I went through most of the post-game and don't recall it being discussed.
There was a similar play in the Tennessee game involving Liv and Tamari Key. If two opposing players' arms get interlocked in a "chicken wings" configuration, it is very difficult for a referee to determine who initiated the contact. Even though it looks very bad when one player is hooked to the floor by the other player's interlocked arm, that doesn't mean that the player on the floor is the victim and the player still standing is the aggressor.

I suspect that in many cases, there is no intent on either player's part to hook the opponent's arm, but it happens anyway. I think on the play in question in the Marquette game, Aaliyah shoved the Marquette player before their arms became interlocked, and that is why she was called for the foul.

I agree that if a player deliberately hooks another player's arm to flip the other player to the floor, that is a foul and a dirty play. But few situations are that blatant, and neither the play in TN game nor the play in the Marquette game were instances where one player clearly and intentionally initiated the contact.
 
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Not sure. I like the wider lanes and to be honest, I would eliminate the charge circle and just call a regular foul if warranted. One less thing refs have to check and players too.
If the charge circle was eliminated, there would be many career-ending injuries in the lane. Really bad idea.
 
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If the charge circle was eliminated, there would be many career-ending injuries in the lane. Really bad idea.
I don't like it because generally the player attempting to take the charge in that area usually is some help defender that comes out of nowhere. It's one thing to ask a player to slow or redirect their momentum in the open court to avoid a charge...it's an entirely different ask to stop momentum in such a confined area to avoid contact with a player many times who isn't seen until it's too late.
 
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Actually it was bigger, at one time you had two circles, one for the men's and one for the women's game. A couple of years ago they made the women's the same as the men's.
Thank you. I noticed the different circles on some high school courts in the US and wasn't sure why it was there.
 
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Name one. It's fine to question their expertise, but to make such an accusation you gotta' have some facts.
If anyone really wants to complain about poor and occasionally one-sided officiating, I would recommend watching the Olympics. Although there is a smattering of outstanding basketball referees like Maj Forsberg, for the most part, the Olympics should remind us just how lucky we are to have high quality referees in the US
 

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