XL Center Makeover Comes With Hefty Price Tag

[FartMan69]

Yes, Hartford has been and would be a good hockey market in comparison to Atlanta, Phoenix, Nashville, Tampa, etc. That's said, as long as Bettman is the NHL Commissioner, Hartford has 0% chance getting an NHL team even if Hartford built a brand new, top-of-the-line arena. If Betmman leaves, Hartford would still be behind Quebec City, (Las Vegas (a Bettman specialty), a Toronto/Hamilton team, Kansas City, and Seattle regarding possible relocation or expansion locations. Its a long shot and that does not take into account if owners in NYC and/or Boston would be against such a move .

Agree with the Bettman part but Hamilton will never get a team because of the Leafs and the league wants to protect Buffalo as much as possible. Also QC and Vegas will soon be off the table if expansion goes through. KC isn't even close to a threat , Seattle is ahead of us even with no arena only because of market size and the huge hole in the Northwest.

 

[Ha Who]

Has anyone noticed that the Smith professor always quoted as saying public funding of sports arenas never helps the city, never says what he would spend the money on? Entertainment and packed bars (yahoo) and restaurants add much to a city.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Just be careful. Let this serve as a model of what NOT to do:

Why the KFC Yum! Center will fail and leave tax payers onthe hook:

Over $800 million in Debt

Operating Costs Exceeding $92,000 per Day

Lease Giving Away Millions to Tenant and Others

Losing more than $50,000 per day during 2011, more than$37000 per day during 2012

More than $30 million in losses since opening

Financial Impossibility to Succeed

A Lease that is Choking the Financial Life from the Arena
(unless the Lease is renegotiated)

 

[Ha Who]

Just be careful. Let this serve as a model of what NOT to do:

Why the KFC Yum! Center will fail and leave tax payers onthe hook:

Over $800 million in Debt

Operating Costs Exceeding $92,000 per Day

Lease Giving Away Millions to Tenant and Others

Losing more than $50,000 per day during 2011, more than$37000 per day during 2012

More than $30 million in losses since opening

Financial Impossibility to Succeed

A Lease that is Choking the Financial Life from the Arena
(unless the Lease is renegotiated)

I agree if this is AAC, AHL and Hockey East based, than it is foolish. If the powers that be are being told P5 and/or major league team is close, it is a game changer. Don't forget the Yum Center tenants are men's basketball and woman's basketball/volleyball. Different than Hockey East and even minor league hockey.

 

[FDNY99]

Sounds like a lot more money for UConn, potentially. If we must play there, unlocking concessions, parking and luxury seating is a huge win for the AD. This also explains the hockey arena on campus...if we are going to be a partner in the building there is no reason to compete against ourselves.

They are gonna renovate Freitas to HE league minimum 4000...and a state of the art team facility

 

[FDNY99]

I hope this happens, but it MUST be done right. I'm not 100% what "right" is ....
If it costs more than 250, do it, but audit, audit audit, no lipstick. It needs to = caliper of B1G and NHL.

This will be good for civic pride, national exposure, better for tv, recruiting, attendance, ST holders, our bladders, movement between half/periods, revenue for state and UConn, food variety, concessions, overall entertainment, the 5:00 escape, our NHL pipe dream, tournaments like NCAA bball, frozen four/regionals, nutmeg hockey tournament etc.

That said, I think they should maximize revenue and only have 16,500 - 17-500 seats. I'd rather have a really loud unique (not cookie cutter) arena that makes $ and sell out on a constient basis than a 18,000 arena that just doesn't work for hockey and bball ie barclAys

!6,500-17,500 won't bring a NHL team in here to even look at the place. Moat new NHL arenas are 20,000 so at 18,000 they are already behind the 8 ball.

 

[Ha Who]

!6,500-17,500 won't bring a NHL team in here to even look at the place. Moat new NHL arenas are 20,000 so at 18,000 they are already behind the 8 ball.

18,500 is smack in the middle of the NHL. I have doubts about this market, even for UConn, but see this list

http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=c349931c-a5c2-4734-8bec-18a41138aaeb

 

[FDNY99]

18,500 is smack in the middle of the NHL. I have doubts about this market, even for UConn, but see this list

http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=c349931c-a5c2-4734-8bec-18a41138aaeb

That is from 2007...some of those numbers are wrong...
Console Energy Center in Pittsburgh holds 18,387 for hockey
MSG is now 18,006
Barclays Center 15,795
(the Islanders have a 5 year out in their deal to play at the Barclays Center...and the renovation of Nassau Coliseum requires that a AHL team play there when the work is done...the owner of the Nets just became majority owner in the company that is doing the renovation there and will run it after the project is done).
Nassau Coliseum is no longer a NHL arena. There is no way you get a NHL team to come to Hartford with seating capacity less than 18,000

 

[Ha Who]

That is from 2007...some of those numbers are wrong...
Console Energy Center in Pittsburgh holds 18,387 for hockey
MSG is now 18,006
and Nassau Coliseum is no longer a NHL arena. There is no way you get a NHL team to come to Hartford with seating capacity less than 18,000

Hate to turn to Wikipedia. Again, I have doubts about this market, including a base that won't drive when 3 inches of snow fall

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Hockey_League_arenas#Current_arenas

 

[FDNY99]

Hate to turn to Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Hockey_League_arenas#Current_arenas

You should have put this up in the beginning instead of that article from 2007....that's fine....if you think the Phoenix Coyotes are gonna relocate to Hartford and a renovated XL Center that seats 16,500 I have a bridge to sell you over the east river in NYC. Same with the Hurricanes...read the report that has been posted around here by the architect they chose to do the job...you need 18,000 seats minimum to attract a NHL team.

 

[Ha Who]

You should have put this up in the beginning instead of that article from 2007....that's fine....if you think the Phoenix Coyotes are gonna relocate to Hartford and a renovated XL Center that seats 16,500 I have a bridge to sell you over the east river in NYC. Same with the Hurricanes...read the report that has been posted around here by the architect they chose to do the job...you need 18,000 seats minimum to attract a NHL team.

You might be right. The plan leaves hockey capacity 400 short of the 18,000 seats. So why 250 million for mid major college basketball and a college hockey team that draws about 6000 and a minor league hockey team that draws even less?

 

[FartMan69]

You should have put this up in the beginning instead of that article from 2007....that's fine....if you think the Phoenix Coyotes are gonna relocate to Hartford and a renovated XL Center that seats 16,500 I have a bridge to sell you over the east river in NYC. Same with the Hurricanes...read the report that has been posted around here by the architect they chose to do the job...you need 18,000 seats minimum to attract a NHL team.

From the article:
"The elimination of skyboxes, which would be converted to restaurants and clubs, and other changes throughout the structure could make room for another 2,000 or so seats, increasing the total to about 18,000 from the current 15,800."
Either way the current trend in pro sports is to have a building that caters to the market while maximizing the real money makers (luxury seating, retail, etc.) Winnipeg's arena seats 15k but is surrounded by a vibrant retail development. Even in baseball and football we're seeing teams eliminate nosebleeds in favor of fan bars and picnic decks. The days of 20k seat arenas outside of huge markets are long gone. Ability to keep the demand high and have the tools to squeeze money out of the fans are what the modern stadium will feature.

 

[Ha Who]

From the article:
"The elimination of skyboxes, which would be converted to restaurants and clubs, and other changes throughout the structure could make room for another 2,000 or so seats, increasing the total to about 18,000 from the current 15,800."
Either way the current trend in pro sports is to have a building that caters to the market while maximizing the real money makers (luxury seating, retail, etc.) Winnipeg's arena seats 15k but is surrounded by a vibrant retail development. Even in baseball and football we're seeing teams eliminate nosebleeds in favor of fan bars and picnic decks. The days of 20k seat arenas outside of huge markets are long gone. Ability to keep the demand high and have the tools to squeeze money out of the fans are what the modern stadium will feature.

Exactly. Just the path the Red Sox took with a smallish ballpark

 

[FartMan69]

Exactly. Just the path the Red Sox took with a smallish ballpark

They were like 103 years ahead of their time!

 

[ct06111]

TNSE in Winnipeg with a 15,004 barn "is beyond anything the NHL could dream of".

Hopefully we can find a group like them and develop around the area. We should have gotten luccinio to take over da dunk and have AAA Red Sox team and really try and develop around the arena with the XL. Tribes with casino.

10k lower, 7k upper with another 500-1k luxury seating. (Club, loge, suites) = ~18k
UConn and state split everything involved with 30 UConn events
NHL ownership groups gets same kind of deal. No rent and gets ALL revenue from 41 game days. We give them NOTHING other than upkeep of arena and state and city benefit with people filling up downtown.

 

[FartMan69]

I really want to hold judgment until i see renderings of the actual arena

 

[Devland]

What is wrong with the current Civic Center? It has a basketball court, beer and seats. What else is needed?

 

[huskeynut]

Hate to turn to Wikipedia. Again, I have doubts about this market, including a base that won't drive when 3 inches of snow fall

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Hockey_League_arenas#Current_arenas

We were at the Gila River Arena about a month ago. A beautiful facility inside. Ample parking without sky high fees. Fantastic restaurant/ bar that you can eat and watch the game at the same time. We were in a luxury box which was very comfortable, well appointed and the bar well stocked. Gila River and the Coyotes actively work with businesses and other organizations to put packages together to put fannies in the seats. They have a very active marketing plan. The Coyotes may be bad, but the place was packed!

And I'm sorry to say, but the XL Center looks like a dump compared to the Gila River. The amount of money being bantered about to upgrade the XL Center will not make is close to a facility like Gila River.

And why should be even thing of this when the state is in dire physical straits. Makes no sense.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Exactly. Just the path the Red Sox took with a smallish ballpark

Not exactly. One of the key reasons that the prior owners of the Red Sox sold the team was because they wanted a new stadium and couldn't get it done in the face of the quagmire that Boston politics are. There were 2 legitimate proposals for a new Fenway - one right next door and a second in Seaport district. Today's Fenway Park is just about maxed out with respect to the number of seats and amenities that can be put into its footprint and 110+ year old frame. When the next stadium arms race launches, the Sox maybe stuck.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

You can just tell this is one of those threads that's going to devolve into Cesspool-quality before it's over.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

I love how you guys say "never" and ".000000000000000000000001" chance of NHL returning. It's makes you sound dumb. NHL needs 3 things. Arena, market, owner. Arena? Check if done right. This is going to be sold as UConn and NHL as cherry on top. Market? We are a better market than Carolina, Arizona, Florida, devils, and Columbus. Owner? There is a ownership group interested and not made public that is smart to remain silent and in the shadows until told to.

Arizona, Carolina, Florida, islanders, and possibly the Devils are in trouble. Winnipeg is a smaller market and smaller arena and "is beyond anything the NHL could dream of". If Quebec gets a team, why not fix Bettman's 20 year mistakes. We are proven NHL market and 20 years of absence would beat any enthusiasm created from Vegas or Seattle. How is KC or Houston a better NHL market than CT? Our TV contract alone would make ALL NHL owners $. The reduced travel costs would be a +. Conference alignment would be an issue, but you have at least 2 teams in the EC that are in trouble.

Do your NHL research if you continue to think "never" and .00000000000000001" chance. Enough of the blanket cynicism.

Sorry, this is entirely incorrect.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Not exactly. One of the key reasons that the prior owners of the Red Sox sold the team was because they wanted a new stadium and couldn't get it done in the face of the quagmire that Boston politics are. There were 2 legitimate proposals for a new Fenway - one right next door and a second in Seaport district. Today's Fenway Park is just about maxed out with respect to the number of seats and amenities that can be put into its footprint and 110+ year old frame. When the next stadium arms race launches, the Sox maybe stuck.

Nobody, other than maybe Will McDonough, would argue Frank McCourt was up to anything legitimate.

 

[IMind]

Not exactly. One of the key reasons that the prior owners of the Red Sox sold the team was because they wanted a new stadium and couldn't get it done in the face of the quagmire that Boston politics are. There were 2 legitimate proposals for a new Fenway - one right next door and a second in Seaport district. Today's Fenway Park is just about maxed out with respect to the number of seats and amenities that can be put into its footprint and 110+ year old frame. When the next stadium arms race launches, the Sox maybe stuck.

The Red Sox are in a great position given where the world is giong. They basically turned all the streets around Fenway into a concourse. I think total fan attendance is over rated. The falling attendance numbers for most sports bare that out. The HD TV viewing experience at home vs. the crap seats at a stadium... the HD experience wins out. I'd say concentrate on building an incredible 16k arena and charge a premium for attendance. Going to a game has to be an incredible experience outside of just the game. Baseball bares this out... Going to a Red Sox game is an experience... it's more than just sitting and watching the game. They did Fenway exactly right. Part of that might have been a necessity... but it looks much better to have a packed 30k than a half empty 50k stadium. I mean look at what jokes the Blue Jays and Tampa Bay are during the regular season. They'd both be much better served with 35k stadiums. Winnipeg tickets are an absolute premium. There's absurd demand, part of that is Canada but part of that is the arena, if there were another 3-5k of nosebleeds... you wouldn't have quite the rabid demand.

The Flyers have to scratch and beg people to fill in the top of their arena. They're full of youth hockey teams and group sales. My kids hockey teams gets offers to play games on the ice at the Wells Fargo Center all the time for the cost of 100 crap seats. No actual charge to use the ice. Just the price of tickets @ $35 a pop. This isn't during the game like the little kids that play between periods. This is on off days or 5 hours before the game on game days. No one wants to go and sit at a game 1000 miles from the action. I say cut out those seats. Charge a premium for the seats you have and stuff the place with amenities and you'll have a successful model.

 

[pj]

If the state of Connecticut were serious about attracting an NHL team, they would build a quality arena from scratch next to the Rent in East Hartford, and allow developers to put a restaurant/bar/entertainment complex nearby. Easy parking and access to a sports and entertainment complex. Building on parking lot would give them a much better facility and reduce costs. The Phoenix arena cost $278 mn (http://www.therichest.com/sports/hockey-sports/top-5-costly-nhl-arenas-without-strong-attendance/), not far off the remodeling cost of $250 mn.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

If the state of Connecticut were serious about attracting an NHL team, they would build a quality arena from scratch next to the Rent in East Hartford, and allow developers to put a restaurant/bar/entertainment complex nearby. Easy parking and access to a sports and entertainment complex. Building on parking lot would give them a much better facility and reduce costs. The Phoenix arena cost $278 mn (http://www.therichest.com/sports/hockey-sports/top-5-costly-nhl-arenas-without-strong-attendance/), not far off the remodeling cost of $250 mn.

The Phoenix arena is also a disaster, primarily because of its horrendous location. East Hartford wouldn't be nearly as bad, but bringing the arena out of downtown into an area that's not walkable, has no public transit, and would be more difficult to access from the western part of the state which has more youth hockey teams and fans would be an interesting decision.

The problem with respect to the NHL is that the league does not want a team there. Not to mention the Bruins and Rangers would be opposed to another team coming in, I believe they may even have a right to vote against it or veto it in some regard since it would be a competing market. Bettman is steadfast against a team being in Hartford. The league wants a team in Las Vegas, that is going to happen. Whether it's a move or expansion remains to be seen. That said, with the success of Winnipeg, there is a LOT of groundswell to go back to Quebec - that would happen before Hartford. There is a lot of support for a team in Seattle as well, though they have some arena issues. But were an arena to be built there, they would be ahead of Hartford on the list. There's also Kansas City, who has a facility built and ready to go. I'm not positive on where they stand, but it would be difficult to see them behind Hartford. 06111's list of teams in trouble is faulty - the Devils aren't going anywhere. The Islanders aren't going anywhere except back to Long Island. AZ, Carolina, and Florida are in trouble but you can cross Carolina off the list of teams going to Hartford. That's just not going to happen. If AZ moves, it'd be to Las Vegas or Seattle to keep conference balance. Florida is an option, but again, with Quebec there - an ACTUALLY proven NHL market - they'd be well in front of Hartford.

Building this arena on the premise that an NHL team will come here is foolish. That doesn't mean they shouldn't do it and shouldn't build an arena that would be capable of hosting an NHL team - they should - but politicians and developers trumpeting how Hartford is in a good position to bring back the Whalers is either disingenuous or they all simply have their heads up their ass.