What happens to ACC if UNC, Syracuse & maybe FSU get slammed?

[Gfunk]

I think FSU is the least likely to deal with potential NCAA violations, but they are simply becoming constant off-field drama - it's a matter of time before something happens down there.

On a more possible hand, I honestly believe dark days are coming for UNC and Syracuse. UNC could especially get smacked so hard that trust issues will never diminish with fellow conference members.

If UNC gets annihilated, does this give schools like Duke and NCSt reason to break up the in-state alliance and decades of Carolina-centric control over the ACC?

I'm also sensing other schools are becoming discontent again - VT & UVa.

I'm also curious how significant UNC violations factor into the absurd GOR recently signed by ACC members.

For a while, I sensed the ACC was set for the long-term & the Big12 was in fact the p5 conference on more fragile terms - but the overlap between the mighty SEC and less profitable ACC in the Southeast probably has the former thinking dollar signs and expansion again.

The ACC could be a hot mess again.

 

[UConn9604]

I think FSU is the least likely to deal with potential NCAA violations, but they are simply becoming constant off-field drama - it's a matter of time before something happens down there.

On a more possible hand, I honestly believe dark days are coming for UNC and Syracuse. UNC could especially get smacked so hard that trust issues will never diminish with fellow conference members.

If UNC gets annihilated, does this give schools like Duke and NCSt reason to break up the in-state alliance and decades of Carolina-centric control over the ACC?

I'm also sensing other schools are becoming discontent again - VT & UVa.

I'm also curious how significant UNC violations factor into the absurd GOR recently signed by ACC members.

For a while, I sensed the ACC was set for the long-term & the Big12 was in fact the p5 conference on more fragile terms - but the overlap between the mighty SEC and less profitable ACC in the Southeast probably has the former thinking dollar signs and expansion again.

The ACC could be a hot mess again.

I think it will go something like this:

1. They make more money than we do; and
2. We play in a league with Tulsa and Tulane.

 

[CL82]

I'm also sensing other schools are becoming discontent again - VT & UVa.
.

Conspiracy Kitty says:
Well if you are sensing it, that's good enough for me.

 

[Sea Goat]

Here is a possible implication for the ACC:

The GOR could become unenforceable. I know it seems far-fetched, but consider that all other members of the ACC probably signed the GOR with the reasonable expectation that subject members (eg. FSU, UNC, Syracuse) had all operated within the bounds of NCAA rules and regs concerning academics and other things. Therein lies the value or consideration for the GOR in the first place. ACC membership is a lot less valuable if 3 notable member institutions have long term enforcement actions taken against them. I would expect that such action would impact media payouts as such media contracts must have clauses dealing with this very subject. Can you imagine ESPN agreeing to pay the same for media rights in a situation where these 3 ACC teams are excluded from meaningful competition for any length of time? Take VT or UVA - could they reasonably argue that they signed the GOR expecting that those 3 schools would be vying for conference/national championships and thus made membership in the ACC more valuable and prompted them to sign a GOR? Further, the recent disclosures especially re: UNC and Syracuse do not appear to be "bolts out of the blue".
UNC and Syracuse had to know about the underpinnings of the problems long before the GOR's were signed. Did the other members know?

I suppose this all moot if the sole driver in value of conference membership is number of TV's and all other conference members just look the other way. But, if it is more than that, I see this as a potential issue.

 

[Gfunk]

Conspiracy Kitty says:
Well if you are sensing it, that's good enough for me.

Conspiracy Kitty says:
Well if you are sensing it, that's good enough for me.

Haha!

I think the 4th response here may have hit certain valid points. I can't imagine the GOR being singed if certain good faith and ethics were part of the agreement.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Nothing, conferences are long term efforts, any NCAA violation, if there is one, will be less than 5 years or less. UNC's getting slammed or not will have no impact on the demographic value that UNC provides, i.e. number of eyeballs. Syracuse is a tad bit more vulnerable and would have to go all in on being NYC's "team."

 

[Gfunk]

Here is a possible implication for the ACC:

The GOR could become unenforceable. I know it seems far-fetched, but consider that all other members of the ACC probably signed the GOR with the reasonable expectation that subject members (eg. FSU, UNC, Syracuse) had all operated within the bounds of NCAA rules and regs concerning academics and other things. Therein lies the value or consideration for the GOR in the first place. ACC membership is a lot less valuable if 3 notable member institutions have long term enforcement actions taken against them. I would expect that such action would impact media payouts as such media contracts must have clauses dealing with this very subject. Can you imagine ESPN agreeing to pay the same for media rights in a situation where these 3 ACC teams are excluded from meaningful competition for any length of time? Take VT or UVA - could they reasonably argue that they signed the GOR expecting that those 3 schools would be vying for conference/national championships and thus made membership in the ACC more valuable and prompted them to sign a GOR? Further, the recent disclosures especially re: UNC and Syracuse do not appear to be "bolts out of the blue".
UNC and Syracuse had to know about the underpinnings of the problems long before the GOR's were signed. Did the other members know?

I suppose this all moot if the sole driver in value of conference membership is number of TV's and all other conference members just look the other way. But, if it is more than that, I see this as a potential issue.

Great points - no conspiracy theories here.

I can't imagine signing off on a GOR as a university president if specific ethical, honorable guidelines aren't in place.

 

[pj]

The SEC and the ACC are both tied at the hip to ESPN and the SEC won't raid the ACC without ESPN's permission which won't come. The rumor that the Big12 didn't offer FSU and Clemson at the behest of ESPN is another sign that the TV partners hold veto power over realignment decisions.

So far realignment has pretty much only happened when ESPN was raiding Fox (SEC taking A&M and Missou), ESPN was raiding the old Big East after it refused to renew with ESPN (ACC growth), and the B1G raiding ESPN taking Maryland which fits with the stories of ESPN-B1G hostility beginning with ESPN lowballing the Big Ten leading to the B1G forming BTN with Fox.

Only the B1G and Pac are able to make realignment decisions without ESPN's permission, and the Pac is remote. So any dissatisfaction with ESPN is going to lead schools to court the B1G. This puts the B1G in a really strong position as money gets tight at universities and ESPN tries to maintain Disney's exorbitant profit levels.

No idea if VT and UVa are dissatisfied, but anything that makes UNC a less attractive partner tends to diminish the value of staying in the ACC.

It also suggests that the B12 is vulnerable because, belonging half to ESPN and half to Fox, both networks could benefit by raiding it.

 

[Dooley]

My hope is that all of these ACC schools are hit with major penalties (i.e. long-term postseason bans) in both football and basketball. The ACC, realizing that it needs to replace these lame duck schools in the next few years on the schedule in order to send FSU/Clemson to the football playoff, will look to expand as a result. Add UCONN, Cincinnati, UCF and ECU. Take low hanging B1G (UCONN) and B12 (Cinci, UCF, ECU) options off the board while adding good markets, football and basketball. Once the penalties to UNC and Syracuse expire, now you have full control of the eastern seaboard and, thus, sealing it off from the B1G. This may, in turn, lead to expedited actions from the B1G to add UCONN now. Either way, we get off of Gilligan's Island.

Will this happen? Of course not. The "penalty" to UNC will likely be 10 less minutes of practice per year for the crew team. The "penalty" to Syracuse will be forcing them to change their banner ads from "New York's College Team" to "New York's Semi-College Team". FSU will get a very stern warning from Slimeball Emmert that reads somewhere along the lines of "I'm only going to give 73 more chances so watch it!". ESPiN will brush everything under the rug faster than a corrupt politician and laud UNC and Syracuse for their "ability to fight through adversity". And UCONN fans will get to enjoy another decade of games against Tulsa, Tulane and SMU, while winning more hoops titles and ridiculously barely cracking the Top 25 preseason polls.

 

[Chuck]

I hate to be the downer but in my opinion the "Power 5" (I refuse to use that term without quotes) are running the asylum. Nothing important will happen to any of the 3 you mentioned. If they do get in trouble for some reason the others will just be happy for the increased opportunity in football (FSU) or basketball ('cuse, UNC).

I don't believe that the NCAA has any power or desire to impact how the "Power 5" operate.

 

[Sea Goat]

I hate to be the downer but in my opinion the "Power 5" (I refuse to use that term without quotes) are running the asylum. Nothing important will happen to any of the 3 you mentioned. If they do get in trouble for some reason the others will just be happy for the increased opportunity in football (FSU) or basketball ('cuse, UNC).

I don't believe that the NCAA has any power or desire to impact how the "Power 5" operate.

Yeah, we know that Emmert is a bum, interested in holding on to his overpaid job at all cost. He knows he probably serves at the pleasure of the "Power 5", so he may engage in some meaningless bluster in an attempt to placate his critics. Whatever he does, it is likely to be BS.

 

[CL82]

Yeah, we know that Emmert is a bum, interested in holding on to his overpaid job at all cost. He knows he probably serves at the pleasure of the "Power 5", so he may engage in some meaningless bluster in an attempt to placate his critics. Whatever he does, it is likely to be BS.

I don't know. The story is too widely known and there's too much outrage. I think he's painted into a corner and must act or lose any remaining credibility.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think FSU is the least likely to deal with potential NCAA violations, but they are simply becoming constant off-field drama - it's a matter of time before something happens down there.

On a more possible hand, I honestly believe dark days are coming for UNC and Syracuse. UNC could especially get smacked so hard that trust issues will never diminish with fellow conference members.

If UNC gets annihilated, does this give schools like Duke and NCSt reason to break up the in-state alliance and decades of Carolina-centric control over the ACC?

I'm also sensing other schools are becoming discontent again - VT & UVa.

I'm also curious how significant UNC violations factor into the absurd GOR recently signed by ACC members.

For a while, I sensed the ACC was set for the long-term & the Big12 was in fact the p5 conference on more fragile terms - but the overlap between the mighty SEC and less profitable ACC in the Southeast probably has the former thinking dollar signs and expansion again.

The ACC could be a hot mess again.

The likely result of all this is serious penalties for UConn.

Nothing is going to happen to anyone in the ACC.

 

[Hoophound]

If UNC isn't severely punished, the cheating will become more rampant and the P5 will lose control of their own product. If you can cheat that extensively and not get penalized SEC schools will pull out all the stops to get players. At that point, it becomes crappy professional sports and the end of college sports will begin.

The amateur aspect of college sports is what creates the pride and passion associated with it. Recruits are supposed to pick the school that offers the most opportunity for them and the one that they feel an affinity for. When it becomes all about money or getting a degree without going to class, the romance of college sports is gone. The school pride and love of of the game is what keeps us watching. When it is all about who pays more or who requires the least academically, the fans will lose interest in all but a few markets.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I don't know. The story is too widely known and there's too much outrage. I think he's painted into a corner and must act or lose any remaining credibility.

For UNC at least, also throw in the fact that this scandal goes well beyond athletics. It's widespread academic fraud involving thousands of students spanning more than a decade. Chapel Hill is going to have issues with eth accreditation board and possibly the Fed (grant money) and neither of those two give a rat's arse what ESPN is doing or not doing. If either of those two act, such as UNC's accreditation being put on probation which will have a real impact on enrollment and grant money, the NCAA will look like a blind fool if they do not act. As much as the NCAA does ntow ant to touch one of their crown jewels, they may not have much of a choice.

As of the fruit, anyone see anyone pointing out that he ACC's decision to add Syracuse instead of UConn because of the impact of NCAA violations may have been foolish? I know that idea is shot down immediately on the Fruit fan pages because UConn was a lot 'dirtier' (I would agree that UConn should at least lose point for being incompetent when it comes to hiding scandals, which appears to be a an ACC prerequisite).

 

[whaler11]

You guys do know why the NCAA can't really do anything right?

 

[pj]

You guys do know why the NCAA can't really do anything right?

Because it's a corrupt institution whose leaders are in the pay of those they pretend to regulate?

 

[whaler11]

Because it's a corrupt institution whose leaders are in the pay of those they pretend to regulate?

Right, the NCAA is almost completely funded by the men's basketball tournament. They can't do anything to schools that would make them matter reconsider how that tournament exists.

I'd enjoy watching the NCAA commit suicide but it's tough to expect them to do it.

 

[whaler11]

If you enjoy ranting and raving about UNC - statefansnation never disappoints.

Here they give UConn two more National Championships and even talk about the APR ban.

http://www.statefansnation.com/2014/10/heres-reasons-rest-acc-mad/

 

[whaler11]

West Texas A&M is not a team from a movie... and they seem to have some academic issues too

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf...d-schoolwork-for-star-receiver-163505164.html

 

[BoatShow]

If the NCAA comes down on them it's more incentive to break away.

 

[UConnJim]

Obviously, the ACC has some problems with UNC, Syracuse, and maybe FSU. Hitting all of them with major sanctions would cripple the ACC. Thus, I think, penalties will be minimal.

UNC getting a slap on the wrist will send a message, which brings me to the next point. If you step back and look at what college athletics (basketball and football) is becoming (or already become) is a semi-pro league with no relation to the academic mission of colleges. And, cheating is tolerated, for some that is. Some colleges won't like what is happening/has happened. Couple this issue with the high cost of a college education driven by decades of above inflation price increases and you could have a perfect storm.

 

[Hoophound]

I don't think heavy penalties will result in a breakaway. In fact, the NCAA could get some political capital by handing out some harsh, but fair penalties. By enforcing the rules and grandstanding a bit, the NCAA will earn the respect of many serious academics and politicians. This is an opportunity to shed some light on the corruption that goes on and show the public that the NCAA is going to protect college sports from major threats to its integrity.

 

[CL82]

If the NCAA comes down on them it's more incentive to break away.

Maybe but it won't happen right away. That would be a PR nightmare. Over a decade of deliberate fraud is hard to line up behind.

 

[pnow15]

The real story is the two ball boys from Syracuse went to a Duke frat party with their coach and met Jamais Winston and his girl friend who was supplying the entertainment that night. A bunch of North Carolina guys were in the next room not studying for a course that did not exist. Roy Williams was in attendance with Jim Beoheim but neither saw anything wrong as they were busy munching on crab legs.