USN&WR Research Universities -- Global 500

[itgoeslike]

The AAU is a lobbying organization that tries to secure as much of the public funding pie as possible for its members.

 

[pj]

The AAU is a lobbying organization that tries to secure as much of the public funding pie as possible for its members.

Yes, but federal funding for research is going to be squeezed indefinitely by entitlements, which are growing faster than tax revenue and are politically sacrosanct. Discretionary spending has been falling as a fraction of GDP and henceforth it is going to be falling in absolute dollar amounts. If research at AAU universities is to be maintained, the AAU has to look more to private and state level sources. The organization knows that it has to re-direct itself if its purpose as a recruiter of research funding is to be sustained.

 

[upstater]

I disagree. Especially when it comes to undergrad education for the mainstream folks.

It is still and night and day difference. You are talking about a school that puts 5x as much resources into education. $40k+ spending per student versus under $8k.

People say these things aren't the same but when you are in a small seminar class with a top professor who has a 2-1 load and much more time to devote to you, it's very different from the professor with a big class and a 3-4 load. Someone who puts in 60-70 hours a week on his classes alone, and therefore finds little time for research and writing.

 

[itgoeslike]

Yes, but federal funding for research is going to be squeezed indefinitely by entitlements, which are growing faster than tax revenue and are politically sacrosanct. Discretionary spending has been falling as a fraction of GDP and henceforth it is going to be falling in absolute dollar amounts. If research at AAU universities is to be maintained, the AAU has to look more to private and state level sources. The organization knows that it has to re-direct itself if its purpose as a recruiter of research funding is to be sustained.

Yes. The pie is shrinking, which has caused many universities to shut down or restructure their research endeavors. I have a few friends that have been affected by the shifting sands, with one that had to relocate his research program to another university altogether. In addition, most states are cutting back funding, which puts UConn in a unique situation, especially when you consider its growing private partnerships, attracted by ongoing and future initiatives. My point above is that the AAU isn't really concerned about education beyond how it impacts member universities directly. Sure, education is a component, but it's primarily about revenue. The AAU will see UConn as an adversary until the university reaches a point where it can be leveraged. Then you'll see an invite.

 

[upstater]

"In other words, the University of Nebraska was ousted from the most prestigious club in higher education because it was doing what land-grant universities are supposed to: conduct research on practical matters, like feeding humanity, and educate substantial numbers of students, not all of whom were born into the ruling class."
I think it's a good debate, I am not for elite-ism, times change, and I am especially concerned when my tax dollars are involved.

Ag research counts for the AAU. Just where do you think these schools are located in the B1G? They are located in the midwest. What don't count are state subsidies for ag. Because these are not peer-reviewed grants. They are more or less political pork.

As for the agrarian versus technology debate, aren't we past that? The year is 2015. When Monsanto gives a grant for biological research, stuff that might end up "feeding" people, the AAU counts it. Not to mention all the stuff going on in silicon valley. Is that not practical?

Heck, we are having this conversation on the internet, a system created by researchers in the 1960s, and not for the purposes for which we are using it. If people were adamant about a waste of tax money back then, that would have been a great place to attack.

 

[upstater]

I think it's a great report. I think the AAU is outdated. Undergraduate education has exploded. There are over 100,000 students, including 17k graduate students, between UCF and USF. If that large of an education system doesn't warrant access to the best resources available and inclusion, then something just doesn't seem right.

No one is stopping them from putting their resources toward great education except for Florida's state gov't.

 

[upstater]

Yes. The pie is shrinking, which has caused many universities to shut down or restructure their research endeavors. I have a few friends that have been affected by the shifting sands, with one that had to relocate his research program to another university altogether. In addition, most states are cutting back funding, which puts UConn in a unique situation, especially when you consider its growing private partnerships, attracted by ongoing and future initiatives. My point above is that the AAU isn't really concerned about education beyond how it impacts member universities directly. Sure, education is a component, but it's primarily about revenue. The AAU will see UConn as an adversary until the university reaches a point where it can be leveraged. Then you'll see an invite.

[/QUOTE]

We'll really have to wait and see what the AAU thinks about these issues because short of ousting Nebraska and adding Boston U., there's very little to go on. I am of the belief that the AAU cares very much about the maintaining the disciplines, even if the money is gravitating to only a few places.

 

[Kolumbo]

Brandeis?

 

[itgoeslike]

We'll really have to wait and see what the AAU thinks about these issues because short of ousting Nebraska and adding Boston U., there's very little to go on. I am of the belief that the AAU cares very much about the maintaining the disciplines, even if the money is gravitating to only a few places.

Exceptional faculty, expertise, recognition and resources are all assets in securing grants so those will always be valued. My only point is that the AAU charter is not really about the advancement of academia in the general sense. Maybe it was 50 years ago. The good news for UConn is they have been making progress expanding the aforementioned assets, often at the expense of "AAU" universities.

 

[pj]

it's primarily about revenue. The AAU will see UConn as an adversary until the university reaches a point where it can be leveraged. Then you'll see an invite.

This is the key. When UConn goes from being a competitor to a desirable collaborator with whom they can hitchhike, then the invite is assured.

 

[Seaa Blue]

This is the key. When UConn goes from being a competitor to a desirable collaborator with whom they can hitchhike, then the invite is assured.

I think B1G would love to extend its academic/research reach into New England, and hence why the UConn invite is coming.

 

[John Greene]

I think B1G would love to extend its academic/research reach into New England, and hence why the UConn invite is coming.

If the B1G wants to "extend its academic/research reach into New England" they could just cut MIT a deal for one sport like they did with Johns Hopkins.

 

[HoopsFan21]

As someone else said, the AAU is a good ol' boys club. The same people that we are begging to invite us into one of their P5 athletic conferences are basically the same people that we have to beg to invite us into their AAU research club. Clearly they have spoken and do not want us in any shape or form. Time to move on and stop acting like the boy that keeps getting turned down by the pretty girl.

 

[dayooper]

As someone else said, the AAU is a good ol' boys club. The same people that we are begging to invite us into one of their P5 athletic conferences are basically the same people that we have to beg to invite us into their AAU research club. Clearly they have spoken and do not want us in any shape or form. Time to move on and stop acting like the boy that keeps getting turned down by the pretty girl.

Is this Nelson incognito?

 

[Ldandy]

If the B1G wants to "extend its academic/research reach into New England" they could just cut MIT a deal for one sport like they did with Johns Hopkins.

Not really necessary IMO. If B1G Schools want to collaborate with MIT they don't need the approval of an athletic conference. Johns Hopkins was unique in that they were an available blue blood lacrosse program looking for a home at nearly the exact moment The B1G was trying to establish the sport within the conference. The fact that they are an academic super power simply made the decision an easier one. Athletically MIT brings nothing to the table.

 

[dayooper]

Not really necessary IMO. If B1G Schools want to collaborate with MIT they don't need the approval of an athletic conference. Johns Hopkins was unique in that they were an available blue blood lacrosse program looking for a home at nearly the exact moment The B1G was trying to establish the sport within the conference. The fact that they are an academic super power simply made the decision an easier one. Athletically MIT brings nothing to the table.

That's why there was "talk" of trying to bring in Cornell into the Big10 for hockey. Cornell was/is a big time program and would be a link into The Ivy League for The CiC. They play in Hockey East and wouldn't have to leave The Ivy League for any of their other sports. Same for Boston U and their hockey program.

When I say talk, I mean the talking heads, of course.

 

[pj]

Athletically MIT brings nothing to the table.

Wait till the B1G/BTN adds chess.

 

[Ldandy]

As someone else said, the AAU is a good ol' boys club. The same people that we are begging to invite us into one of their P5 athletic conferences are basically the same people that we have to beg to invite us into their AAU research club. Clearly they have spoken and do not want us in any shape or form. Time to move on and stop acting like the boy that keeps getting turned down by the pretty girl.

It is nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be here. Athletic conferences and The AAU have different motivations for who and when someone is invited to join. When talking about The B1G these things sometimes become intertwined, but they are not one and the same.

The AAU has certain metrics that need to be met in order to be considered for or to retain membership. Schools are not arbitrarily selected regardless of these numbers, and schools do not conspire with each other to keep out others that meet or exceed membership criteria.

As for The B1G it is often stated that AAU Membership and geographic contiguity are necessary for inclusion. Once again this is simply not true. They are subjective criteria used by Delany when rumors of conference realignment emerge that run contrary to his vision.

At the end of the day conference realignment is about one thing and one thing only. Money. Academic profile, geographic contiguity, and like mindedness in university mission are all important, but if you stand to make the conference significantly more money the odds are you have a good shot to join. Lets face it ND is an a**h*** of an athletic partner and a non AAU private, but if they came to Delany hat in hand today there would be a press conference in South Bend tomorrow announcing their membership. UT is the same animal. The idea of geography would go out the window in order to leverage those Texas Cable boxes.

UCONN is doing a great job of building up both its academic and athletic profile. These big investments in facilities and personnel will be rewarded in the long run. Those that criticize the current state of your football program and even desire to downsize to a lesser position athletically are clearly small minded people making 10 year decisions as opposed to 50 year ones. The ACC and Big 12 are full of these kind of thinkers. Protect the little I have in the short term and hope the long term will take care of itself. The B1G, Pac, and SEC on the other hand understand that you must sacrifice short term gains for long term goals. Which of the P5 leagues do you think will be around 20 years from now?

 

[Seaa Blue]

Wait till the B1G/BTN adds chess.

You haven't heard?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Big-Ten-Chess-League/852787064745886

 

[deadhead]

USNWR CWUR
Michigan 14 21
Northwestern 25 23
Wisconsin 27 25
Minnesota 29 49
Ohio State 34 47
Illionis 35 28
Maryland 51 76
Penn State 52 46
Rutgers 55 33
Purdue 69 52
Michigan State 75 112
Indiana 114 113
Iowa 121 125
Nebraska 253 335


USNWR CWUR
Duke 20 26
North Carolina 32 45
Pittsburgh 42 53
Georgia Tech 61 83 AAU 2010
Virginia 102 41
Miami 169 138
FSU 172 225
NC State 213 228
Virginia Tech 248 271
Wake 300 145
Syracuse 377 448
BC 390 332
Louisville 481 322
Clemson nr 510

USNWR CWUR
Stony Brook 131 126 AAU 2001
Boston U 37 67 AAU 2012
TAMU 86 105 AAU 2001
Connecticut 272 233


Center for World University Rankings

 

[pj]

You haven't heard?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Big-Ten-Chess-League/852787064745886

UConn and MIT to the B1G!

 

[UMass]

Umass and Harvard are essentially peers on this list.

Yeah, so what's your point?