Stewart's place among the greats

[Huskybass]

With three National Championships and three Final Four Most Outstanding Player awards, Stewart has to be among the All Time Greats in women's college basketball.

Where does she rank compared to Taurasi and Moore? Could Stewie leave as the greatest woman Husky of all time?

 

[alexrgct]

Last summer, I posted this thread, in which I talk about UConn's all-time starting five, as well as UConn's Mt. Rushmore:

http://the-boneyard.com/threads/does-breanna-stewart-make-the-mt-rushmore-of-uconn-wcbb.62657/

At this point, I think Stewie is on the all-time Husky starting five, along with sue, Diana, Maya, and Tina. Incidentally, this very same group of give was on Team USA for the 2014 FIBA world championships, and I would have given anything for them all to be in the same lineup, if only for a few minutes. At any rate, she's ahead of Rebecca Lobo for me, in spite of everything Lobo did for the UConn program.

However, Mt. Rushmore is challenging because influence on UConn history, as well as results, make for stringent criteria. Not only that, four is more exclusive than five, and there are only four spots on Mt. Rushmore.

Having said that, I'd argue that Stewie needs to win four NCs, ideally with four MOP awards, to be a lock for Mt. Rushmore.

As for GOAT, it'll still be a tough argument, but from a "body of work" perspective, I think the title would be hers. However, if my life depended on the outcome of a game and I got to pick a player first, my choice would still be Diana.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Stewie hasn't been forced to carry a team the way DT and Maya were at times for long stretches. I place below them, but above Lobo, Bird, Shea, etc.

Of course, Stewie has an entire season left.

 

[Padutch5]

Stewie hasn't been forced to carry a team the way DT and Maya were at times for long stretches. I place below them, but above Lobo, Bird, Shea, etc.

Of course, Stewie has an entire season left.

Lets see what Stewie does next year when Geno can move her back to her natural position. He really had to play her out of position this year. I think she will be even better back at her natural position.

 

[UcMiami]

Stewie hasn't been forced to carry a team the way DT and Maya were at times for long stretches. I place below them, but above Lobo, Bird, Shea, etc.

Of course, Stewie has an entire season left.

Yeah, but ... I agree that Diana in 2003 and 4 was shepherding a really young (though very talented team) to two NCs. I would however say that Stewart's Freshman and Sophomore season she truly did put the team on her back for the NCAAs.

Gene talks about how Stewart rises in the big games and the big moments. And it was something I saw while watching some of the USA and HS All Star contests - she is a pretty laid back personality (on USA teams it was partly that she was usually the youngest) on the court, but if contests were a bit tight toward the end and the team really needed something she suddenly became superwoman - it was like she was deferring to her teammates for the first 30 minutes, but if necessary she would stop that silliness and just WIN. That ND semi-final game had a bit of that feeling - it was like she said 'screw it, I like my teammates and want them to do well, but just give me the damn ball!'

It also gets to Geno's comment about him wanting her to take more shots - can't remember him saying that about any other player.

As to the OP - so do we penalize Stewart for not playing on a less talented team?! She came in and won her first three NCs - none of the rest of those 'greats' did that - in fact none of them won their freshman year let alone the first three years. Yes she is already one of the greatest, and if she wins another NC, I am not penalizing her for being on a very good team - she will deserve to be considered the 'greatest' at Uconn and one of two or three 'greatest ever' college basketball players.

On a slight tangent - Moriah if she remains healthy and continues her stellar play will challenge DT for the most assists in Uconn history. She will be probably #2 in steals (and first for guards), she will likely have the highest career FG percentage for guards (I consider Shea to be a wing), she will be top 5 in 3 pt percentage, she will blow away all of the other 'great guards' in A/TO ratio, and she will be considered one of the great defensive players to ever play at Uconn. And she will have 3 or 4 NCs. I love Sue, and Jen, and DT, and ... BUT - I will consider her to be the best pure PG to have played at Uconn

 

[CocoHusky]

Lets see what Stewie does next year when Geno can move her back to her natural position. He really had to play her out of position this year. I think she will be even better back at her natural position.

Just curious what you think Stewie's "natural" position is?

 

[UcMiami]

Just curious what you think Stewie's "natural" position is?

Stretch four. She can play the five and the three, but 4 is her natural home. And not the Paul Silas type of four, but more the euro-model stretch four who is comfortable shooting from anywhere and has the skills necessary to guard anywhere on the floor.

 

[baggerbob]

Yeah, but ... I agree that Diana in 2003 and 4 was shepherding a really young (though very talented team) to two NCs. I would however say that Stewart's Freshman and Sophomore season she truly did put the team on her back for the NCAAs.

Gene talks about how Stewart rises in the big games and the big moments. And it was something I saw while watching some of the USA and HS All Star contests - she is a pretty laid back personality (on USA teams it was partly that she was usually the youngest) on the court, but if contests were a bit tight toward the end and the team really needed something she suddenly became superwoman - it was like she was deferring to her teammates for the first 30 minutes, but if necessary she would stop that silliness and just WIN. That ND semi-final game had a bit of that feeling - it was like she said 'screw it, I like my teammates and want them to do well, but just give me the damn ball!'

It also gets to Geno's comment about him wanting her to take more shots - can't remember him saying that about any other player.

As to the OP - so do we penalize Stewart for not playing on a less talented team?! She came in and won her first three NCs - none of the rest of those 'greats' did that - in fact none of them won their freshman year let alone the first three years. Yes she is already one of the greatest, and if she wins another NC, I am not penalizing her for being on a very good team - she will deserve to be considered the 'greatest' at Uconn and one of two or three 'greatest ever' college basketball players.

On a slight tangent - Moriah if she remains healthy and continues her stellar play will challenge DT for the most assists in Uconn history. She will be probably #2 in steals (and first for guards), she will likely have the highest career FG percentage for guards (I consider Shea to be a wing), she will be top 5 in 3 pt percentage, she will blow away all of the other 'great guards' in A/TO ratio, and she will be considered one of the great defensive players to ever play at Uconn. And she will have 3 or 4 NCs. I love Sue, and Jen, and DT, and ... BUT - I will consider her to be the best pure PG to have played at Uconn

There also is something to be said about what other players feel about Stewie. DT said if you want to beat Uconn for the championship it better be this year, because Stewie isn't losing the championship her senior year.

 

[CocoHusky]

Stretch four. She can play the five and the three, but 4 is her natural home. And not the Paul Silas type of four, but more the euro-model stretch four who is comfortable shooting from anywhere and has the skills necessary to guard anywhere on the floor.

I agree with your description. I was slightly confused by this part of Padutch5 post "Geno can move her back to her natural position". Stewie is/has been a Stretch Four from day one IMO. The Paul Silas type of 4 has been Morgan and Dolson.

 

[Oldbones]

With three National Championships and three Final Four Most Outstanding Player awards, Stewart has to be among the All Time Greats in women's college basketball.

Where does she rank compared to Taurasi and Moore? Could Stewie leave as the greatest woman Husky of all time?

It's been an enjoyable headache trying to decide between Diana and Maya.
Adding Stewie makes it an enjoyable impossibility.

 

[UcMiami]

I agree with your description. I was slightly confused by this part of Padutch5 post "Geno can move her back to her natural position". Stewie is/has been a Stretch Four from day one IMO. The Paul Silas type of 4 has been Morgan and Dolson.

I think the thought is defensively - Stewart has been stuck doing serious battle with centers and Silas types on defense where her length helps offset her slight frame, but where she definitely gets muscled and beaten up. With a true center with more offensive determination than Kiah getting more minutes than Kiah did, Butler takes the center, Morgan takes the Silas type, and Stewart takes less pounding and gets to provide the help side length without the wrestling match. This is really related to teams like SC or TX that are playing two bruising players at the same time - not all that frequent an occurrence in the women's game.

 

[ttizzle999]

There also is something to be said about what other players feel about Stewie. DT said if you want to beat Uconn for the championship it better be this year, because Stewie isn't losing the championship her senior year.

I keep reading this in several places. Not that I don't believe you (because I do) but do you have a link/source to the quote?

I agree with Diana by the way--especially with Loyd declaring it will be even tougher for any team to knock off UConn with seniors Stewart and Jefferson.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Yeah, but ... I agree that Diana in 2003 and 4 was shepherding a really young (though very talented team) to two NCs. I would however say that Stewart's Freshman and Sophomore season she truly did put the team on her back for the NCAAs.

Gene talks about how Stewart rises in the big games and the big moments. And it was something I saw while watching some of the USA and HS All Star contests - she is a pretty laid back personality (on USA teams it was partly that she was usually the youngest) on the court, but if contests were a bit tight toward the end and the team really needed something she suddenly became superwoman - it was like she was deferring to her teammates for the first 30 minutes, but if necessary she would stop that silliness and just WIN. That ND semi-final game had a bit of that feeling - it was like she said 'screw it, I like my teammates and want them to do well, but just give me the damn ball!'

It also gets to Geno's comment about him wanting her to take more shots - can't remember him saying that about any other player.

As to the OP - so do we penalize Stewart for not playing on a less talented team?! She came in and won her first three NCs - none of the rest of those 'greats' did that - in fact none of them won their freshman year let alone the first three years. Yes she is already one of the greatest, and if she wins another NC, I am not penalizing her for being on a very good team - she will deserve to be considered the 'greatest' at Uconn and one of two or three 'greatest ever' college basketball players.

On a slight tangent - Moriah if she remains healthy and continues her stellar play will challenge DT for the most assists in Uconn history. She will be probably #2 in steals (and first for guards), she will likely have the highest career FG percentage for guards (I consider Shea to be a wing), she will be top 5 in 3 pt percentage, she will blow away all of the other 'great guards' in A/TO ratio, and she will be considered one of the great defensive players to ever play at Uconn. And she will have 3 or 4 NCs. I love Sue, and Jen, and DT, and ... BUT - I will consider her to be the best pure PG to have played at Uconn

There are no penalties. This is a comparison of All-Time Greats. Something must be used to separate those you consider. What DT did for an entire season with young teams was unreal. Maya's last season was similar (yes they didn't win the title, but she carried them to the door step). All I'm saying is Stewie hasn't been required to do that....and I hope so won't be. DT and Maya played like every moment was a big moment. Stewie thus far rises highest in the big games, but comparing her to DT and Maya..I have to go with them being a step above to this point.

I think her supporting cast is stronger, but that doesn't mean she isn't great.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Last summer, I posted this thread, in which I talk about UConn's all-time starting five, as well as UConn's Mt. Rushmore:

http://the-boneyard.com/threads/does-breanna-stewart-make-the-mt-rushmore-of-uconn-wcbb.62657/

At this point, I think Stewie is on the all-time Husky starting five, along with sue, Diana, Maya, and Tina. Incidentally, this very same group of give was on Team USA for the 2014 FIBA world championships, and I would have given anything for them all to be in the same lineup, if only for a few minutes. At any rate, she's ahead of Rebecca Lobo for me, in spite of everything Lobo did for the UConn program.

However, Mt. Rushmore is challenging because influence on UConn history, as well as results, make for stringent criteria. Not only that, four is more exclusive than five, and there are only four spots on Mt. Rushmore.

Having said that, I'd argue that Stewie needs to win four NCs, ideally with four MOP awards, to be a lock for Mt. Rushmore.

As for GOAT, it'll still be a tough argument, but from a "body of work" perspective, I think the title would be hers. However, if my life depended on the outcome of a game and I got to pick a player first, my choice would still be Diana.

My friend, I wish you were in Istanbul with us last fall. The line-up of Diana, Sue, Maya, Tina, and Britney Griner was amazing. Arguably, it was the best lineup ever. And #7 (elsewhere #23) was the MOP.

 

[UcMiami]

Mill - you say no penalties but then say because Maya and DT had to carry young teams they were better. Stewart instead 'had to carry' older teams - she did it with USA basketball internationally, and she did it her freshman and sophomore year at Uconn. DT famously had her worst game of her entire career in the semis her freshman year. Maya couldn't be the difference maker her freshman year. Stewart was the reason Uconn won her freshman year.
And I wouldn't say she was not intense in the less important games, just that she spends the time working on lots of things other than scoring in those games - helping teammates expand their games and expanding her game as well. And this is very much what the coaching staff is also working on November through February - when in control of a game, they call of the dogs and work on various aspects of half court offense and defense. In is very intense, but it is not design to score the most points or create the most defensive stops, it is design to expand the players confidence and capabilities for a possible situation in March that may never materialize.

They all played/play very different positions/styles and have very different personalities so it is hard to compare directly.

 

[EricLA]

Just my $.02... there are different types of "all time greats". Stewie may be the most physically gifted UCONN player ever - and that's one kind. Diana was probably the greatest leader of all time who combined intensity, will and desire, and literally made every player on the team better by her actions. That's another kind. And Maya was all motor all the time, and once she learned how to channel it, became the greatest all time scorer in UCONN history.

When people talk about winning NC's and link that to what makes for "the GOAT's", I think in a way it's unfair because let's be honest - Dee was on a team for 2 years after TASS left and won 2 NC's with starters like Moore, Conlon, Battle, and Strother. Do you think at this point in time, Maya wins 2 NC's if she's the 5th starter on that team instead of Dee? Would they have won if Stewie was on it instead of Dee?

So my point is this - first, we are so blessed to have players who are that great that we even get to have the discussion! And 2nd, no matter what Stewie accomplishes, it's a different era. I think there's room for all of them to be the "greatest" at one thing, or another, with regards to UCONN's incredible history...

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Mill - you say no penalties but then say because Maya and DT had to carry young teams they were better. Stewart instead 'had to carry' older teams - she did it with USA basketball internationally, and she did it her freshman and sophomore year at Uconn. DT famously had her worst game of her entire career in the semis her freshman year. Maya couldn't be the difference maker her freshman year. Stewart was the reason Uconn won her freshman year.
And I wouldn't say she was not intense in the less important games, just that she spends the time working on lots of things other than scoring in those games - helping teammates expand their games and expanding her game as well. And this is very much what the coaching staff is also working on November through February - when in control of a game, they call of the dogs and work on various aspects of half court offense and defense. In is very intense, but it is not design to score the most points or create the most defensive stops, it is design to expand the players confidence and capabilities for a possible situation in March that may never materialize.

They all played/play very different positions/styles and have very different personalities so it is hard to compare directly.

It isn't a penalty. I am not taking away from her. I am adding to DT and Maya. DT had not KML, MoJeff, Morgan, etc. Still what Stewie has done thus far is amazing. I am saying a Junior has already surpassed every great Husky except DT and Maya....no penalties here.

 

[Hongster]

DT's swagger and how she carried her team to NC especially with Maria Conlin as a PG is second to none, I doubted we'll ever going to see another like her in a Uconn's uniform.
In my book she's third among Uconn's greats and Maya is second because Maya has that finesse touch of a shooter.

 

[Kurebeach5]

Hate to disagree with Alex,but Stewie does not need a fourth NC to solidify her Rushmore credentials, she has already ! NO ONE,to date, has won more. She has done plenty. Also hate to disagree DT,the greatest Huskie (to date) but a fourth NC is far from a guarantee - just ask Chamique Holdsclaw who led the evil empire to a three-peat her first three years before the shocking loss to Duke in the East Regional Finals in 1999 !!

 

[alexrgct]

Hate to disagree with Alex,but Stewie does not need a fourth NC to solidify her Rushmore credentials, she has already ! NO ONE,to date, has won more. She has done plenty. Also hate to disagree DT,the greatest Huskie (to date) but a fourth NC is far from a guarantee - just ask Chamique Holdsclaw who led the evil empire to a three-peat her first three years before the shocking loss to Duke in the East Regional Finals in 1999 !!

Last summer, there was some difference of opinion on the topic on the Mt. Rushmore front. Right now, if I posted the same poll, there might well be less difference of opinion, My point is that, should Stewie get her fourth NC, there will be no difference of opinion whatsoever. Not one iota.

 

[Woof 101]

Stretch four. She can play the five and the three, but 4 is her natural home. And not the Paul Silas type of four, but more the euro-model stretch four who is comfortable shooting from anywhere and has the skills necessary to guard anywhere on the floor.

Yes and a four that can put it on the floor! Not many her size can put it on the floor on a out-let or going base line to the hoop like she can.

 

[boontonbomber]

C'mon, no Uconn, or non-Uconn player for that matter, has ever been able to do all the things that Breanna can do , at both ends of the floor. DT barely new that there was another end of the floor, and Maya was flashy, but really was not a particularly good defender. You just can't go around ignoring defensive ability when talking about the greatest players.

 

[chrissaran]

During one of the games there was a clip of Diana saying that if UConn was going to lose it would have to be this year because you weren't going to beat Breanna as a senior. She went on to say that Breanna was going to be elite.

 

[Waquoit]

Stewie hasn't been forced to carry a team the way DT and Maya were at times for long stretches. I place below them, but above Lobo, Bird, Shea, etc.

Poppycock. She carried her team to the title as a freshman. Diana and Maya didn't do that. Since then she has only lost once. In OT, 3,000 miles away on a young team that lost 2 All-Americans from the year before. She was a rock on Tuesday. Maybe you want DT taking the last shot, but is she grabbing all those boards and blocking all those shots. Stewie is every bit on the same level as those two now, today? I'd put her ahead of Moore. If she wins four, she will be the undisputed GOAT.

 

[Gus Mahler]

C'mon, no Uconn, or non-Uconn player for that matter, has ever been able to do all the things that Breanna can do , at both ends of the floor. DT barely new that there was another end of the floor, and Maya was flashy, but really was not a particularly good defender. You just can't go around ignoring defensive ability when talking about the greatest players.

Good point. Stewie gets her hands on a lot of balls, both passes and shots. And she influences a lot of shots that she doesn't block outright.