Should Clark be on the Olympic team?

[bballnut90]

I laugh a bit about beating another play out for a spot at training camp. I'm not sure what that even means. There's much more at issue when it comes to the selection committee picking the team.

I've had the good fortune to attend a couple of world cups (Istanbul in 2014 and Tenerife 2018) and was able to see first hand what it's like to play under the pressure of the international stage. The pressure is even greater at the Olympics though the participating countries take the world cup very seriously.

In Istanbul I saw Breanna Stewart look completely overwhelmed in the few minutes she spent on the court in Istanbul, and those minutes were when the games were out of reach. Granted, Stewart was entering her junior season at UConn but she was also a two-time MVP of the Final Four and had experience on college basketball's biggest stage. Stewart looked more comfortable in Rio 2 years later.

In Tenerife I watched Kelsey Plum and Jewel Loyd look extremely nervous in the minutes they played. Loyd eventually settled in, Plum did not. I think getting comfortable in international play is more difficult for guards than post players. I also had a front-row seat to A'ja Wilson's nervousness as well. She was a far cry from the player we saw playing for USA Basketball a couple years later.

In Beijing, a very experienced Diggins-Smith hardly played (6 mins/game) and looked overwhelmed when she did.

The roster has to include players, particularly guards, who are experienced playing on the Olympic stage. If Clark makes the team, I highly doubt she'll be on the court for meaningful minutes. She'll be on the team to experience what it's like to be a member of USA Basketball and to understand what it takes to play at that level. She'll be put on the team for the future, rather than the present.

If there's anyone who has felt the weight of the world on her shoulders in women's basketball, it's Caitlin Clark. It's a no brainer to bring some of your best up and coming talent to the Olympics so they'll get exposure and be ready to take on a more meaningful role in future international competitions. In regard to needing experienced guards, we have Gray, Loyd, Diggins-Smith and Atkins who all played in 2021 and should be in the mix for 2024. Not to mention Allisha Gray, Kelsey Plum and Jackie Young who won Gold in 3v3 in Tokyo. That's 7 guards with returning Olympic experience in contention who are still in the prime of their careers.

 

[cancontent]

I don't think so, I can't see her being able to deal with the physicality that is FIBA basketball. She needs to transform her body like a Kelsey Plum first.

She's played FIBA ball for years and has won MVP awards at those levels. She should be more than aware about the physicality by now. She's also played in the BIG10 which isn't exactly known for being a finesse conference. The question to me is whether she can beat guards like Plum, Gray (if healthy), Ionsecu, and Taurasi.

 

[GoingPostal]

I have zero idea what anyone else has said, but Caitlin
Clark deserves an invite to try out for the Olympic team. Do I think she has benefited from the fact that Paige has been off the radar screen for the past two years, yes. If Paige had been healthy for those two years, Caitlin would have been seen as a prolific scorer on a team with a good chance to make the final four. A transformative figure for the women's game? No. Not really. Can she bring attention to WCBB, absolutely. I wish her "all the best" for WNBA career.

 

[cancontent]

I have zero idea what anyone else has said, but Caitlin
Clark deserves an invite to try out for the Olympic team. Do I think she has benefited from the fact that Paige has been off the radar screen for the past two years, yes. If Paige had been healthy for those two years, Caitlin would have been seen as a prolific scorer on a team with a good chance to make the final four. A transformative figure for the women's game? No. Not really. Can she bring attention to WCBB, absolutely. I wish her "all the best" for WNBA career.

Paraphrasing to make sure I understand your point.

What I'm getting from this is had Paige been fully healthy, Clark would have been seen as a prolific scorer, but not a transformative figure in the sport. Is that correct?

If yes, I'm not sure if I agree. I could see them both being seen as transformative players but in different ways. Kind of like the Bird and Magic version for women's basketball heading into the pros.

 

[Dillon77]

She's played FIBA ball for years and has won MVP awards at those levels. She should be more than aware about the physicality by now. She's also played in the BIG10 which isn't exactly known for being a finesse conference. The question to me is whether she can beat guards like Plum, Gray (if healthy), Ionsecu, and Taurasi.

@GCKSFN4L

If memory serves, the last time Caitlin Clark represented the U.S.A. was at the U-19 World Cup in Europe, in which she led a team of college underclassmen and high schoolers to the Gold Medal. Other teams knew who she was and it didn't really matter: CC directed the flow of traffic and scored when needed. Interestingly, the oldest (Clark) and youngest (Sonia Citron) players on that team were named to the All Tournament Team. Both CC and Citron are trim (lithe) but had no trouble with the international game.

 

[Rowdy831]

So, I believe Diana Taurasi played on Olympic Team the year she graduated, 2004. There must be others.

My question is, who gets the 12th roster spot, a 40 year old Taurasi, or a 22 year old Clark?

On this site it would be Taurasi but in the eyes of basketball fans in general it would be Clark. On one hand you have the most exciting player to ever play the women's game and on the other you have a washed up 40 something. If any player in their 40s is one of your 12 best it doesn't say much about the talent in your game and even less about the leadership responsible for growing the game.

At one time I thought Diana was the person that Clark is now. She has had a pretty amazing career but it is time for her to move into whatever is next for her in her life and leave basketball to now generation.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

@GCKSFN4L

If memory serves, the last time Caitlin Clark represented the U.S.A. was at the U-19 World Cup in Europe, in which she led a team of college underclassmen and high schoolers to the Gold Medal. Other teams knew who she was and it didn't really matter: CC directed the flow of traffic and scored when needed. Interestingly, the oldest (Clark) and youngest (Sonia Citron) players on that team were named to the All Tournament Team. Both CC and Citron are trim (lithe) but had no trouble with the international game.

Yes but U19 is different than grown women respectfully. It's a lot different getting hit by a screen from a 19 year old kid than a Erika de Souza type of player. I saw Clark seemingly struggle with what I consider minimum contact this season. I believe it was Cotie McMahon who had boxed her out for a rebound and they had to stop the game on what the replay showed was a very routine box out. That's why I believe she needs some time before being placed in that environment.

 

[Dillon77]

Yes but U19 is different than grown women respectfully. It's a lot different getting hit by a screen from a 19 year old kid than a Erika de Souza type of player. I saw Clark seemingly struggle with what I consider minimum contact this season. I believe it was Cotie McMahon who had boxed her out for a rebound and they had to stop the game on what the replay showed was a very routine box out. That's why I believe she needs some time before being placed in that environment.

One box out by Cotie McMahon is, well, one box out. Plus, Cotie McMahon is one of the most solidly built forwards in the game right now and could take out many of the guards listed in these conversations. As for "routine," I still play hoops every Sunday morning and some of my most "whoa, that got me" moments have been on routine screens, box outs, etc. Sometimes an elbow or hip just zings you the right -- err, wrong -- way.

Don't worry -- I get your point. I just happen to have a different one. She's stronger than she looks and will do fine in an international setting at the next level. The only thing that might hold her back now is making the team.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

One box out by Cotie McMahon is, well, one box out. Plus, Cotie McMahon is one of the most solidly built forwards in the game right now and could take out many of the guards listed in these conversations. As for "routine," I still play hoops every Sunday morning and some of my most "whoa, that got me" moments have been on routine screens, box outs, etc. Sometimes an elbow or hip just zings you the right -- err, wrong -- way.

Don't worry -- I get your point. I just happen to have a different one. She's stronger than she looks and will do fine in an international setting at the next level. The only thing that might hold her back now is making the team.

If it was one isolated incident i would be inclined to agree. I wish I could find the clip because It seemed pretty absurd at the time. Dealing with physicality isn't her strong suit and that's what dominates the FIBA style at the senior level. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Just giving my opinion like everyone else.

 

[Dillon77]

If it was one isolated incident i would be inclined to agree. I wish I could find the clip because It seemed pretty absurd at the time. Dealing with physicality isn't her strong suit and that's what dominates the FIBA style at the senior level. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Just giving my opinion like everyone else.

No worries. I'll continue conversations if the give and take is interesting, civil and one/both of us can learn something/get a chuckle.

Will firmly admit that she's not solidly built such as two ND guards who have done well on international circuits, like Marina Mabrey or Jackie Young. CC will probably never be built like those two. On the other hand, she's not backing into the lane like Young or driving hard down both sides because she's ambidextrous like Mabrey. What CC can do is have that outrageous ability to free up just enough space for her shot. That's why I don't worry about the physical nature as much.

Stay tuned...we'll see (or not) soon enough.

 

[UcMiami]

It is an interesting situation and a changing environment. The WNBA is paying its stars more, but has made it much more difficult for their players to play internationally by barring those who do not leave their international teams early to make training camps and the start of the season. While that is great for the league it provides fewer options for gaining experience playing against the same players that will be represented at the WC and Olympic games and playing with international referees and under international rules. There are now many more opportunities for WNBA players to make decent money not playing basketball in the US in the WNBA off season.

The older generation of players played two seasons each year, the more intense one being overseas. Tough on their bodies, but great preparation for playing those same players in the two major international competitions.

Diggins-Smith was one of the first to not go overseas, and you could see her struggle her first few times on NT teams. And the age specific teams are not generally enough exposure to get players ready.

The young players added to the NT over the years have struggled in their first exposure, whether as college students or as recent grads. Doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea to include them, just that you can't depend on them to be ready to lead.

I have no problem either way with Caitlin - she should definitely be in the pool, but how the rest of the team is structured and the confidence in the other players filling her roles will be a determining factor in the final selections. If the committee and coach are confident they have a winning 11 member team, then add her and see how she handles it. If they have concerns about the 11 member team then use that 12 spot to answer some of those concerns with a more experienced player.

I also have no problem either way with DT making the teams - she is very experienced in international play and NT play, just as Catch and Lisa, and Sue and other before her. That can be great for a team and a coach, whether she is the 'best' player or not. She can help younger players deal with the stresses in a way that the coaches can't, and she can still provide moments of magic, in the reduced minutes she is likely to get. (Sue provided that in her last go-round.)

(At age 42, I would still feel more confident depending on DT should the team need five crucial minutes in a game, than in 22 year old Caitlin who has never been there. Because that is the kind of question you may be answering with the #12 spot on the roster. Asjha Jones filled that kind of role with her selection in 2012.)

 

[WBBTakeover]

I'm sorry, but I do not see a viable argument for the inclusion of a 42-year-old aging player (whose body hasn't exactly been kind to her during the last couple of seasons) over a budding 22-year-old superstar on the basis of end-of-the-bench utility. If the goal is to introduce the next generation to international play, why not go with the much, much younger player? She's going to be practicing against much better players than the ones she'll be facing in games because it's unlikely that the 12th player on this roster will get any meaningful game time at any point in this tournament.

I also don't believe that said 42-year-old has to be included on the basis of veteran leadership when it's likely that half the team will be at least 30 years old (or darn close to it) while the number of players under the age of 25 is likely to be two or fewer. This year, Brittney Griner (would be third Olympics) is turning 34. Chelsea Gray (would be second Olympics) and Alyssa Thomas will be 32. Jewell Loyd (would be second Olympics) will be 31. Breanna Stewart (would be third Olympics), Kahleah Copper, and Kelsey Plum (would be second Olympics but first with 5x5) will be 30. And several of the "under 30" players (in particular, A'ja Wilson--who will be 28) are capable of being leaders as well. Am I supposed to believe that Diana Taurasi is supposed to fulfill a leadership role that they can't--either individually or collectively? I'm sorry, but I don't see it.

 

[Matthew1589]

If it was one isolated incident i would be inclined to agree. I wish I could find the clip because It seemed pretty absurd at the time. Dealing with physicality isn't her strong suit and that's what dominates the FIBA style at the senior level. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Just giving my opinion like everyone else.

The last 3 years I've been to every Iowa home game and many away games too. Caitlin is used to physical play it's been the go to method of stopping her the last 4 years including at the U19.

Listen to pre-game interviews the last 3 NCAA tournaments of teams sharing how they will go at her hard. The most physical of those games were 2023 Georgia (2nd round NCAA) and 2024 West Virginia (2nd round NCAA) Caitlin more than held her own while getting mugged and led Iowa to the win each time. UCONN's Nika Muhl got up in to her as well but Caitlin still led her to team to another win in that game in this years F4. She'd have nearly 2 months of WNBA action too before the Olympics, her opponents are going to go hard at her too so she'd be more than ready.

 

[baggerbob]

I'm sorry, but I do not see a viable argument for the inclusion of a 42-year-old aging player (whose body hasn't exactly been kind to her during the last couple of seasons) over a budding 22-year-old superstar on the basis of end-of-the-bench utility. If the goal is to introduce the next generation to international play, why not go with the much, much younger player? She's going to be practicing against much better players than the ones she'll be facing in games because it's unlikely that the 12th player on this roster will get any meaningful game time at any point in this tournament.

I also don't believe that said 42-year-old has to be included on the basis of veteran leadership when it's likely that half the team will be at least 30 years old (or darn close to it) while the number of players under the age of 25 is likely to be two or fewer. This year, Brittney Griner (would be third Olympics) is turning 34. Chelsea Gray (would be second Olympics) and Alyssa Thomas will be 32. Jewell Loyd (would be second Olympics) will be 31. Breanna Stewart (would be third Olympics), Kahleah Copper, and Kelsey Plum (would be second Olympics but first with 5x5) will be 30. And several of the "under 30" players (in particular, A'ja Wilson--who will be 28) are capable of being leaders as well. Am I supposed to believe that Diana Taurasi is supposed to fulfill a leadership role that they can't--either individually or collectively? I'm sorry, but I don't see it.

Gray, Stewart, Thomas, and Wilson, along with Loyd are your leaders on this team.
They don't need DT for leadership

 

[packwrap]

Meanwhile recent college grad Cameron Brink invited to this weekend's Team USA 3 on 3 Olympic camp.

 

[Dillon77]

Meanwhile recent college grad Cameron Brink invited to this weekend's Team USA 3 on 3 Olympic camp.

Yup & Thanks. We've got a thread on it somewhere in the general section.

 

[Bonefish]

The Olympics in many ways is about eyeballs/ratings. Imagine the coverage by NBC when Caitlin walks in the Opening Ceremony. She will be a featured/prominent US athlete in Paris. She's already proven to be ratings gold.

In my opinion, she should and absolutely will be on that roster.

 

[cancontent]

The Olympics in many ways is about eyeballs/ratings. Imagine the coverage by NBC when Caitlin walks in the Opening Ceremony. She will be a featured/prominent US athlete in Paris. She's already proven to be ratings gold.

In my opinion, she should and absolutely will be on that roster.

Are you talking from a ratings perspective or an ability to play perspective? Just for clarity here.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Gray, Stewart, Thomas, and Wilson, along with Loyd are your leaders on this team.
They don't need DT for leadership

What's the status of Chelsea Gray's injury?

 

[MilfordHusky]

I want to follow up on Cat's point, as I've also been to the World Cup in 2014 and 2018, plus the Olympics in 1996 and 2012.

First, some of the foreign teams are badly underestimated. Some of the talent has played in the WNBA--and impressed--but many players are unknown to U.S. audiences. That does not mean that they are not good players. In the NBA, the majority of 1st Team All-NBA (and MVPs) has been foreign-born players for a few years now. In addition, other nation's teams have much more time playing together, so their chemistry is outstanding.

In 2012, the U.S.A. struggled with Australia in the semi-finals, as Liz Cambage was unstoppable. Fortunately, fatigue, Tina Charles, and Asjha Jones slowed her down in the second half, and Diana hit some big shots. In 2014, Maya Moore got us off to a strong start over the first 5-10 minutes, and Spain played us even the rest of the way. In 2018, Belgium and Emma Meesseman used sharp passing and amazing 3-point shooting to lead us at halftime in the semi-finals. Fortunately, they cooled off, and we got the win.

Second, the pressure of playing in major international events is incomprehensible. This cannot be over-emphasized. It is nothing like the U-19, U-18, etc. events, where the crowds number in the hundreds. It is beyond the NCAA Final Four. In fact, it far exceeds Game 5 of the WNBA Finals. Playing for your nation involves incredible pressure. I am glad that we played Spain in the 2014 Finals, because the local support for the Turkish team was insane. Noisemakers were permitted, and the decibel level in the professional arena was higher than I've ever experienced anywhere. Team communication was nearly impossible.

Team U.S.A. has traditionally carried one college player. Obviously, that player was typically the NPOY. However, that player's effectiveness was limited. In 2014, Odyssey Sims was a total nonfactor. Though Stewie made a few amazing plays, her primary contribution to the stat sheet was personal fouls committed. She was overwhelmed. In 2018, Aja Wilson, who is now a certified star, was rendered ineffective by Australia. They double-teamed her with equal size and forced her to go right. The result was usually a forced shot or turnover. In the Tokyo Olympics, despite being 1st Team All-WNBA, Skylar Diggins-Smith looked uncomfortable and was largely ineffective. The point is that even some of the world's best do not perform well in their first major international event. It's entirely possible that other teams in 2014 will make Caitlin look worse that we have ever seen her, but the experience will prepare her for 2026, 2028, etc.

 

[TC22]

I don’t know how you can take DT and Clark. Do you leave Aliyah home also? At some point we have to start building for the future. Guaranteed to go are A’ja, Stewie, Phee, Chelsea Gray (if healthy), Loyd and BG. Boston is the only other big that has been invited unless I’m missing someone. Does she get a spot? Alyssa Thomas was an absolute freight train in the FIBA tournament - there’s no way they leave her off. If they take Boston that leaves 4 spots for Atkins, DT, Ionescu, Plum, Jackie Young, Clark, Copper plus a host of others. I mainly included the ones I think are the best players. IDT you can afford to take Clark AND Taurasi, mainly because neither one is going to give you much defense. Other than Gray and Loyd there are no other experienced guards unless they take Atkins. Ionescu also doesn’t play a whole lot of D. She’s gotten better, but Plum and Young anhilated her in the play-offs.

If I were choosing I’d take the 4 Aces, Stewie, Phee, Loyd, BG, Boston, Alyssa Thomas, Copper and Clark. What you don’t have in experienced guards you make up for in guards that have playEd together. IDT that will happen but it would be a great team with experience, youth, and the 2 best young players in the country.

 

[bbsamjj]

I like your list TC22. Also, a reminder that even with some of the best players in the world, there are only so many minutes per game. In the last Olympics, SDD, Collier, and Atkins all averaged less than 6.6mpg. That seems like the role Clark would play, but coming with a lot of upside for both team PR and her development.

The reason you bring an Atkins or a Laney or a B. Sykes is for perimeter defense (Loyd is pretty much the only one on the roster above who is pseudo known for defense). But when you have 4 of the best defenders in the world in Wilson, Stewart, AT, Collier in the wing/post; not to mention Griner in the middle, that's less of a concern.

 

[Dillon77]

I like your list TC22. Also, a reminder that even with some of the best players in the world, there are only so many minutes per game. In the last Olympics, SDD, Collier, and Atkins all averaged less than 6.6mpg. That seems like the role Clark would play, but coming with a lot of upside for both team PR and her development.

The reason you bring an Atkins or a Laney or a B. Sykes is for perimeter defense (Loyd is pretty much the only one on the roster above who is pseudo known for defense). But when you have 4 of the best defenders in the world in Wilson, Stewart, AT, Collier in the wing/post; not to mention Griner in the middle, that's less of a concern.

Good points by both you and @TC22, who noted bringing all four Aces. One of those, Jackie Young, can play perimeter defense, as well. Maybe not quite like some of those you mention, but she's got good foot speed, height and strength, from the arc back into the box.

 

[Zach Jump]

Meanwhile recent college grad Cameron Brink invited to this weekend's Team USA 3 on 3 Olympic camp.

I was suprised at just how many that have not completed college got invited to that camp, including Lucy Olsen. Large amount for so few spots, compared to the size of invitees for the regular team

 

[CajunHusky]

packwrap said:
Meanwhile recent college grad Cameron Brink invited to this weekend's Team USA 3 on 3 Olympic camp.

I was suprised at just how many that have not completed college got invited to that camp, including Lucy Olsen. Large amount for so few spots, compared to the size of invitees for the regular team

Not a lot of USA players have 3x3 experience. Those invited do have experience with 3x3 and are active in 3x3 tournaments and multiple USAB training camps not just 3x3.

The article below discusses all participants' experience with 3x3 and USAB programs.
2024 USA 3x3 Women’s National Team Training Camp Roster Announced - USA Basketball

Cameron has significant 3x3 experience: "Brink was named MVP of the 2023 FIBA 3x3 Women’s World Cup after helping USA to the gold medal. Brink also competed in two 2023 FIBA 3x3 Women’s Series stops as a member of USA U24, finishing second in both Montreal and Quebec. A USA Basketball participant since 2017, she also owns 5-on-5 gold medals from the 2018 FIBA U17 Women’s World Cup and 2019 FIBA U19 Women’s World Cup."