Senior Brewer leaving UT

[AboutWeston]

Contender to Pretender.

It was just fun to type. I certainly don't think a team as talented as Tennessee will be pretenders.

Adding Massingale to the backcourt is a big improvement. And Burdick is a fine player. I don't think Harrison will make a big impact.

They should still be a top 10 team, but it's not just the loss of a post player. It's one more player leaving the program. It's got to impact the remaining players.

I agree with DD

 

[Phil]

Perspective

In terms of raw production, this is not a major deal. It is never a good thing when you lose a piece to a puzzle, no matter how small, but I'll get to that. In terms of stats, Brewer was ninth, in terms of minutes, tenth, in terms of points per game, and tenth in terms of rebounds per game. For comparison, Heather Buck and Lauren Englen are ninth and tenth for those categories. Or to compare to an LV player, Brewer, a post player, pulled down as many rebounds per game as perimeter guard Bjorkland.

I agree it is a slightly bigger deal when you consider the position. Let's remember though, that Brewer is listed as a forward, not a center (as an interesting aside, she is still listed on the roster.) As Kib might like to say, let's not get too focused on 4 versus 5, let's just call her a post. It is true that with the loss of Cain, and the concern about Baugh's medical history (she may be in the best condition ever, but it is understandable that some will worry), plus the usual cautiousness about counting on untested frosh, the post situation at Tennessee has transitioned from an embarrassment of riches to legitimate concern. That said, if Baugh is healthy, if Johnson plays to her abilities, if Burdick's transition to the college game is smooth and Harrison delivers almost anything, added to some post work from Manning and Stricklen, the front court of Tennessee will be one of the best in the country (as someone aptly pointed out, one with a smaller margin of error).

The announcement is a deal, maybe even a big deal, but more so for nonstat reasons. All good programs have players leaving, UConn is not immune. Any situation can be a variety of issues, and in most cases, we don't know the whole story. But when the count mounts, something is going on. We don't know, and the announcement didn't really explain. That combination leads to speculation. Who initiated the decision, Brewer or Summitt? Some don't like speculation but (as long as we steer clear of harmful speculation, which the mods will remove), it is untenable to expect someone to be a fan of a sport, then refuse to even speculate about what is going on in a situation such as this. That said, there are some things we can eliminate. This isn't a decision to open up a roster spot for a transfer. Not only are they not at the limit, the timing is wrong. Any new recruit or transfer could not possibly get a minute of playing time until next season, a year after Brewer graduates. Whatever is going on, it isn't that.

 

[cferraro04]

Phil, I agree with everything you said but, I have to add one thing to the mix. Remember Alyssa Brewer managed about 10 points and about 6 rebounds her sophmore year. It was injuries that prevented her from building on that.

 

[doggydaddy]

Perspective

In terms of raw production, this is not a major deal. It is never a good thing when you lose a piece to a puzzle, no matter how small, but I'll get to that. In terms of stats, Brewer was ninth, in terms of minutes, tenth, in terms of points per game, and tenth in terms of rebounds per game. For comparison, Heather Buck and Lauren Englen are ninth and tenth for those categories. Or to compare to an LV player, Brewer, a post player, pulled down as many rebounds per game as perimeter guard Bjorkland.

I agree it is a slightly bigger deal when you consider the position. Let's remember though, that Brewer is listed as a forward, not a center (as an interesting aside, she is still listed on the roster.) As Kib might like to say, let's not get too focused on 4 versus 5, let's just call her a post. It is true that with the loss of Cain, and the concern about Baugh's medical history (she may be in the best condition ever, but it is understandable that some will worry), plus the usual cautiousness about counting on untested frosh, the post situation at Tennessee has transitioned from an embarrassment of riches to legitimate concern. That said, if Baugh is healthy, if Johnson plays to her abilities, if Burdick's transition to the college game is smooth and Harrison delivers almost anything, added to some post work from Manning and Stricklen, the front court of Tennessee will be one of the best in the country (as someone aptly pointed out, one with a smaller margin of error).

The announcement is a deal, maybe even a big deal, but more so for nonstat reasons. All good programs have players leaving, UConn is not immune. Any situation can be a variety of issues, and in most cases, we don't know the whole story. But when the count mounts, something is going on. We don't know, and the announcement didn't really explain. That combination leads to speculation. Who initiated the decision, Brewer or Summitt? Some don't like speculation but (as long as we steer clear of harmful speculation, which the mods will remove), it is untenable to expect someone to be a fan of a sport, then refuse to even speculate about what is going on in a situation such as this. That said, there are some things we can eliminate. This isn't a decision to open up a roster spot for a transfer. Not only are they not at the limit, the timing is wrong. Any new recruit or transfer could not possibly get a minute of playing time until next season, a year after Brewer graduates. Whatever is going on, it isn't that.

I agree and disagree as well...lol. What a shock.

Everything I've read about this (yes, on The Summitt) says that Brewer is the only true 5. So whatever they list her as, others there don't agree. And they do say that she was struggling this summer still. But that is based on her injury from last ear which caused her stats to be what you described. Buck and Engeln like. But go back to her soph year when she was healthy. 10.2 PPG and 5.5 RPG. And she was MVP of the SEC tourney. I'm sure Pat was hoping she would return to that level. And losing a player like that is HUGE.

If you are talking about the post, I just don't see Burdick making up for the loss of Cain and Brewer. She will be able to play the 4 and that would allow more time at the 5 for Johnson, but defensively, the bigger posts will give them fits.

And the biggest issue might be mental. Losing a senior like this along with Bjorklund graduating, Avant leaving, Williams injured and Cain not coming back has to weight heavily on the seniors this year and all the returning players. Something is going on at Tennessee. I just don't know what that is.

 

[doggydaddy]

Phil, I agree with everything you said but, I have to add one thing to the mix. Remember Alyssa Brewer managed about 10 points and about 6 rebounds her freshman year. It was injuries that prevented her from building on that.

That was her soph year. Her freshman year she was around 6/4.

 

[Phil]

We are in complete agreement that the issue is more mental. On what is lost stats wise, good point that her soph stats were quite solid. So what have they lost? The 10 PPG soph, who might as a senior produce 12-13? Or the junior who wasn't quite producing 3? Hard to say, but fair to point out that a healthy Brewer is probably worth more than 3 ppg.

 

[Icebear]

It will, also, remain to be seen how it impacts the emotional make up of a team that already has a lot on it's plate with the news about Pat. At this point I see the Lady Vols as an Elite Eight team once again. They have much to prove. That was my prediction last year and with what they presently face I do not see them stepping up enough to make the FF.

 

[UConnCat]

Is it possible that the coaches wanted Brewer to redshirt this year and she refused? It sounds like Brewer has not fully recovered from her injury and therefore is not fully conditioned and ready to go at 100% this season. Perhaps Summitt is thinking the team doesn't really need Brewer at 70% this year but could really use Brewer at close to 100% next season (with so many posts graduating). Of course, the hole in my speculation is Summitt's statement about helping her transfer. If Brewer wants to play again and is thinking about transferring, she'd have to sit out a year anyway so why not just stay at Tenn and redshirt.

This one is tough to figure out.

 

[Vowelguy]

Could be addition by subtraction. Some recruiting classes dont have it - for whatever reason - and they end up infecting the whole team. The 2008 class may end up the worst in TN's history. Reducing their numbers may turn out a good thing.

 

[Phil]

Interesting, I was just mulling over the redshirt option. I wondered about the exact opposite. What if Brewer was legitimately concerned about her current health, and suggested that a year off might be the best thing for her. What if the response by Pat is, yes, that helps you, but doesn't help us. Just speculating, but what if Pat is thinking with the loss of Cain, and two frosh bigs, she needs post help this year, but next year she will be fine. What if they both conclude that a year off is good for Brewer, but doesn't do much for the LV's and the only other option is to play the last year elsewhere?

 

[Vowelguy]

Is it possible that the coaches wanted Brewer to redshirt this year and she refused? It sounds like Brewer has not fully recovered from her injury and therefore is not fully conditioned and ready to go at 100% this season. Perhaps Summitt is thinking the team doesn't really need Brewer at 70% this year but could really use Brewer at close to 100% next season (with so many posts graduating). Of course, the hole in my speculation is Summitt's statement about helping her transfer. If Brewer wants to play again and is thinking about transferring, she'd have to sit out a year anyway so why not just stay at Tenn and redshirt.

This one is tough to figure out.

My guess, based on nothing, was that they had set out clear rules for progress over the summer, and she did not meet them.

 

[doggydaddy]

Interesting, I was just mulling over the redshirt option. I wondered about the exact opposite. What if Brewer was legitimately concerned about her current health, and suggested that a year off might be the best thing for her. What if the response by Pat is, yes, that helps you, but doesn't help us. Just speculating, but what if Pat is thinking with the loss of Cain, and two frosh bigs, she needs post help this year, but next year she will be fine. What if they both conclude that a year off is good for Brewer, but doesn't do much for the LV's and the only other option is to play the last year elsewhere?

Phil, I think this might be it. If she felt she needed to sit out to recover and be 100% next year, Pat might have said that she would have to do that elsewhere. They really need a big body in the post and only Baugh and the freshman post kinda supplies that.

I know that I've read that Brewer has professional asperations. So playing at 60-80% and not being able to perform would really hurt those chances. Sitting out and playing one year at 100% would be her best options if that is the case.

The more I think about it the more I'm conviced that this is exactly what happened.

 

[UConnCat]

Phil, I think this might be it. If she felt she needed to sit out to recover and be 100% next year, Pat might have said that she would have to do that elsewhere. They really need a big body in the post and only Baugh and the freshman post kinda supplies that.

I know that I've read that Brewer has professional asperations. So playing at 60-80% and not being able to perform would really hurt those chances. Sitting out and playing one year at 100% would be her best options if that is the case.

The more I think about it the more I'm conviced that this is exactly what happened.

Add to it the fact that Summitt doesn't know how many years she has left to coach and believes this year's team has a chance to win a championship and the chances are increased with Brewer even if she is less than 100%. The more I think about it the more I think this makes more sense than what I suggested. Brewer is prepared to transfer in order to play healthy again which suggests she's also willing to redshirt in order to play healthy again. If Brewer is still legitimately hampered by her injury, then this is a very tough call for a coach to make. If it's a matter of a lack of effort or commitment, then I can see saying no to a redshirt request.

 

[dtbtbtb]

Before we get to worried for TN Let me note that an 8 player rotaion of: massengale, simmons, spani, stricklen, manning, johnson, burdick and baugh is one of the very best in the country with players who can play in few positions. Manning (who I see as a Farris Lite but taller) and Spani (who is slow but can streach a defence with her shooting ability) can very easy step into the post. It's not as tall of a team as TN had in the past and I do think that Brewer leaving takes them from a top 3 (after Baylor and ND) to top 10 but there are still a very good collection of players (all of them were HS AA).

 

[doggydaddy]

Before we get to worried for TN Let me note that an 8 player rotaion of: massengale, simmons, spani, stricklen, manning, johnson, burdick and baugh is one of the very best in the country with players who can play in few positions. Manning (who I see as a Farris Lite but taller) and Spani (who is slow but can streach a defence with her shooting ability) can very easy step into the post. It's not as tall of a team as TN had in the past and I do think that Brewer leaving takes them from a top 3 (after Baylor and ND) to top 10 but there are still a very good collection of players (all of them were HS AA).

I think every poster in this tread has said the very same thing. They will still be very good. I would disagree that moving Manning or Spani into the post helps with the departure of Brewer. Maria C, from The Summitt, has stated several times that Brewer was the only true 5 on the team. There will be an impact felt with her leaving.

 

[EricLA]

I think every poster in this tread has said the very same thing. They will still be very good. I would disagree that moving Manning or Spani into the post helps with the departure of Brewer. Maria C, from The Summitt, has stated several times that Brewer was the only true 5 on the team. There will be an impact felt with her leaving.

agreed. I had tennessee making it to the final 4. this was before Brewer decided to leave the team. Tennessee fans are saying Brewer was 60% give or take this past summer. Well Doty was less than 100% this summer too as she rehabbed. i'm not sure what it would have taken to get Brewer back to 100%. i've never seen her for any extended time so i'm unsure what her 60% vs. 100% looks like. but it seems that they (some) are just trying to minimize her departure. when you add up Cain and Brewer leaving the team, that would be like Dolson and Buck leaving. could UCONN still win? sure, but it would be a hell of a lot harder...

i agree with dtbtbtb that the rest of their core is very good on paper and Burdick and Massengale should be good for them too. and maybe relying on Baugh to play the 5 for 35 minutes in big games will be just fine, but i'd hate to rely on that. Tennessee will still out-talent most teams. but any team with big, strong, and relatively agile centers will pose a matchup problem for them. Pat excels at teaching defense. IMHO, not so much on offense. CAN they make a deep run into the tourney with no true center on the team? sure. did it just get a lot harder? you bet. i see them making the elite 8 but predict they will fall short of the final 4.

does anyone honestly think Harrison as a freshmen would be as good as Heather last year as a junior? and yet when Stef went down with fouls in the ND game, Heather did not get in. while i still disagree with that, i'm not the coach and don't see them every day in practice. my point is, who do you put on the court when Baugh comes out? Johnson as the tallest player? see if Harrison is up to the challenge? again, Tennessee will out-talent most teams. but if/when they face UCONN, Maryland, Duke, Miami, A&M, Stanford, Baylor, LSU and maybe a few others, they will have issues with big, strong, and/or agile centers.

 

[doggydaddy]

it seems that they (some) are just trying to minimize her departure. when you add up Cain and Brewer leaving the team, that would be like Dolson and Buck leaving. could UCONN still win? sure, but it would be a hell of a lot harder...

maybe relying on Baugh to play the 5 for 35 minutes in big games will be just fine

does anyone honestly think Harrison as a freshmen would be as good as Heather last year as a junior?

again, Tennessee will out-talent most teams. but if/when they face UCONN, Maryland, Duke, Miami, A&M, Stanford, Baylor, LSU and maybe a few others, they will have issues with big, strong, and/or agile centers.

I agree. They may be trying to minimize her departure. We would be doing the same thing if Buck was leaving and Stokes was our only other center. That being said, if she was 60% (and who knows that that really means) this summer, you would expect improvement by November. I'm sure Pat was hoping to see something close to the 10/6 she averaged her soph year.

I seriously doubt you will see Baugh play 35 minutes in ANY games this year. Healthier is one thing. Healthy enough to play 35 minutes is another. My guess is she averages 20 MPG this year. And some games she will play 25 or a little more. It would be risky considering her injury history. I would say the same for Doty.

Harrison will see some extended minutes in blowouts, just to get her time on the court. But I would guess she would play only 5-10 minutes at the most in most games. It takes time for freshman posts to get the hang of things. 3 points and 2 rebouns a game is my best guess.

As long as Baugh can give them 20-25 minutes a game, they should be ok. Johnson played a lot of center for them last year with the limited minutes of Baugh, Cain, and Brewer. She will play lots of center for them again and that impacts their pressing defense when she can't pressure the ball and has to defend the basket.

Should be interesting to say the least.

 

[EricLA]

I agree. They may be trying to minimize her departure. We would be doing the same thing if Buck was leaving and Stokes was our only other center. That being said, if she was 60% (and who knows that that really means) this summer, you would expect improvement by November. I'm sure Pat was hoping to see something close to the 10/6 she averaged her soph year.

I seriously doubt you will see Baugh play 35 minutes in ANY games this year. Healthier is one thing. Healthy enough to play 35 minutes is another. My guess is she averages 20 MPG this year. And some games she will play 25 or a little more. It would be risky considering her injury history. I would say the same for Doty.

Harrison will see some extended minutes in blowouts, just to get her time on the court. But I would guess she would play only 5-10 minutes at the most in most games. It takes time for freshman posts to get the hang of things. 3 points and 2 rebouns a game is my best guess.

As long as Baugh can give them 20-25 minutes a game, they should be ok. Johnson played a lot of center for them last year with the limited minutes of Baugh, Cain, and Brewer. She will play lots of center for them again and that impacts their pressing defense when she can't pressure the ball and has to defend the basket.

Should be interesting to say the least.

right. i wasn't really saying that Baugh would play 35 minutes in big games - i meant that if they really needed to rely on her for 35 minutes in big games, it might work, but it's way risky. but i should have added that i don't see her playing that much either.

and ur right - Johnson did play a lot when Baugh, Cain and Brewer were on the bench last year. didn't help them make the final 4. that's partly why i predicted elite 8 but no further for them.

 

[Tonyc]

Well I will disagree with many or you. I dont think TN will be a good team this season. For TN to be a good team this season Baugh has to play 25 minutes a game and or Harrison steps up. I dont see Baugh playing a full season playing 25 minutes a game. Maybe 10 minutes but not much more then that. TN right now looks like UConn did when Geno went small last season with Maya in the middle. Tenn is a very talented team, that has underperformed for 3 seasons. Now without a post player who can play how can they be better. TN has no legit post this season unless Baugh and Harrison are miracles.

I think now we are seeing there is truly a problem at TN. To many kids leaving with excuses.

 

[Replicant]

IMO, Ms. Brewer was the most effective big of the group consisting of herself, Baugh, Cain and Johnson. She had the best footwork and was the best finisher around the rim. Being a lefty made her tougher to guard as well. This is a huge loss for this year's team. Injuries have plagued Baugh and fouls have plagued Johnson. Taking a quick look over their TN careers, they have combined to foul out of 11 games (Baugh 6, Johnson 5). Johnson has been extremely healthy and never missed a game, but her fouls have increased each year while her minutes remained fairly static at 24/25 MPG. Since Baugh and Johnson will now be called on to provide greater minutes, it will put greater stress on Baugh's health and Johnson's ability to play under control and out of foul trouble. Should be a real challenge for both ladies.

 

[Coler]

I can't wait for them to come to the RAC this season.

 

[UConner]

What are the rules on red shirting and then deciding to transfer? If she started practicing, but never played, and transferred at the end of the first semester, would she only be able to play the second half of next year? I think that's why the timing was yesterday. Here's my guess. Both parties agree a red shirt is called for. Brewer says she wants to play professionally and will need a great last year to prove it, meaning 25-30 minutes a game. Pat can't guarantee that, so leaving frees up schollie for next year and Brewer can undoubtedly find a school that can give her those minutes. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Vowelguy]

... so leaving frees up schollie for next year ...

Tenn already has a boatload of scholarships to offer next year (9 I believe). That was most definitely not the reason.

 

[EricLA]

as a side note, i find it interesting, assuming that they don't win the NC this year, that the 2nd best tennessee recruiting class of all time (which is made even better if you consider the class ahead of them consisted of Bjorkland, Cain and Baugh), may go thru their 4 years of college not only never winning a NC, but never even making the final 4.

yes i know Bjorkland, et al, won the NC as freshmen, but they've not even been back to the final 4 since then...

 

[Vowelguy]

as a side note, i find it interesting, assuming that they don't win the NC this year, that the 2nd best tennessee recruiting class of all time (which is made even better if you consider the class ahead of them consisted of Bjorkland, Cain and Baugh), may go thru their 4 years of college not only never winning a NC, but never even making the final 4.

yes i know Bjorkland, et al, won the NC as freshmen, but they've not even been back to the final 4 since then...

Was it considered the 2nd best? I know the 91 HS class also had high expectations, and perhaps some in the 80s.