Report: Duke Coaches, Administrators Ignored Sexual Assault Allegations

[SubbaBub]

Actually, they are supposed to investigate the allegation, even if the alleged victims won't cooperate. I suspect that investigation rarely (read as never) results in any findings, but they need to go through the theater of it.

Not sure what you mean here. If the victims deny it and the accused denies it. How is any investigation supposed to proceed?

If the appropriate representative from Duke, asked all the parties and asked the third party witnesses and no one goes on the record having witnessed anything, what outcome other than closing the case is possible?

I don't know what Duke did, but the Dead spin article implies they did investigate.

At some point, the victim is responsible for cooperating in any prosecution if they wish to seek justice against the accused.

Telling a support group and then backing down to the authorities, may help psych recovery, but it does zero toward holding the accused responsible.

I understand not wanting the added trauma of reporting, but if the community is to be involved it's a necessary evil. It's up to the accuser to decide.

For all we know, past history at Duke notwithstanding, these are two sour grapes immature women with an ax to grind and may have cost a student athlete his college career and reputation. Those are also real damages that the player can't fight for fear of illiciting a prosection, a la the lacrosse case.

So who the victim and who's the assailant? We the public can't possibly know for sure.

If you are going to make an accusation of that magnitude, you need to follow through with it to its conclusion.

The guidance for assault victims should be to report it immediately. The U should provide whatever support/protection needed until the investigation/legal case is settled.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

The guidance for assault victims should be to report it immediately. The U should provide whatever support/protection needed until the investigation/legal case is settled.

A nice theory but the second component rarely plays out in practice. So now what?

People seem to have this bizarre idea that false accusations of sexual assault are rampant. Statistically, it's more likely for Sulaimon to get raped himself than to be falsely accused.

 

[prankster]

A nice theory but the second component rarely plays out in practice. So now what?

People seem to have this bizarre idea that false accusations of sexual assault are rampant. Statistically, it's more likely for Sulaimon to get raped himself than to be falsely accused.

Perhaps..... But, then again, stranger things have happened at Duke.

 

[joober jones]

Sexual assault victims are often very reluctant to come forward or engage in any kind of legal battle because they don't want to see the assailant again and it brings terrifying, traumatic memories right back to the surface and gets them playing in a non-stop loop. Knowing some people who have been victims to such assaults is where I've garnered this information from over the years. I'm not saying the kid did or didn't do what he's accused of since I have no real way of knowing, but the women not taking the steps to open up further investigation is not beyond comprehension.

 

[David 76]

The proper place to investigate this is the Police not some student conduct committee. They did not report to them. Why do people miss this? If there was a murder would it go to student affairs? This is major crime.

I never saw where the 2 women denied it. I saw they did not report it. World of difference. Again, if the police followed up and found no evidence--OK. But that didn't happen.

Not only is it hard to press charges for all the emotional reasons and because of our tendency to blame the victim, you would have the liability of being the woman who ruined Coach K, the basketball program etc., etc..
Can you imagine how horribly a woman would be treated in CT if she brought down a player and Coach Calhoun or Ollie? It would not be pretty.
If their policy says they must contact the police, they are in trouble. It it doesn't, it's a crappy policy.

 

[Deadrody]

... the college rape culture ...

Oh, farkin' please. "Rape Culture" my ass.

 

[Deadrody]

The proper place to investigate this is the Police not some student conduct committee. They did not report to them. Why do people miss this? If there was a murder would it go to student affairs? This is major crime.

THIS. Furthermore, putting the onus onto the university incorrectly shifts the burden to them and off the police, where it should be. And then, if the university handles it and the accused is "found responsible", the worst thing they can do is expel the person. So they can then roam the countryside looking for more prospective rape victims.

Which is to say nothing of the preposterously low bar for what constitutes "sexual assault" under the Title IX rules. Regret having sex last night ? Bingo, sexual assault.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Oh, farkin' please. "Rape Culture" my ass.

These damn women, trying to have everything their way, amirite?!

 

[prankster]

These damn women, trying to have everything their way, amirite?!

Please define "rape culture" for me.

 

[Stainmaster]

Speaking as one of the few people here who is actually a college student (and one who interacts with college-aged males on a daily basis), rape culture does exist. As I see it, rape culture is the pervasive idea amongst male college students that consent from a female s e xual partner is as best optional and at worst not a consideration. In dorm rooms, hallways, and around campus, males discussing females as s e xual objects with a sense of entitlement ("of course we're going to hook up", "she better blow me") happens all the time. I know males on my campus (and others) who have exhibited predatory behavior towards intoxicated females with the belief that because she's drunk, it's okay to do whatever even if she doesn't say "yes".

It's easy to be a dude in your 40s on a basketball message board and say that "rape culture" is a myth perpetrated by those nasty liberals/feminists. All I can say is, if I were a chick on campus, I wouldn't feel nearly as safe as I do otherwise.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Please define "rape culture" for me.

No. How about that? Figure it out for yourself. It's not my responsibility to educate you. You've clearly got access to the internet.

 

[Cheeky]

Oh, farkin' please. "Rape Culture" my ass.

Okay - please PM me with the where and when, and please be clean - I know a couple of guy who will do the job.

 

[Cheeky]

It's easy to be a dude in your 40s on a basketball message board and say that "rape culture" is a myth perpetrated by those nasty liberals/feminists.

No fan of liberals or feminists, but as a dude in my 40s on this board, please don't stereotype me. I've been well aware of the "rape culture" of which you speak since my days on campus in the 80s when there would be a frat house rape at least once a year.
First legal advice I ever gave was to a friend, who was describing how some drunk woman was so drunk that she thought he was her boyfriend, which he was not - he was a stranger at a club. Sordid details will not be written here. Point is, him and his friends had no concept that her obvious and severe intoxication was not a license for sexual interaction.

I also had a good friend who got raped when she was drunk, at a party, with a couple of women she thought were her friends watching and cheering on the rapist.

I don't like the term "rape culture," because it implies too much, but I think the point is valid.

 

[Stainmaster]

No fan of liberals or feminists, but as a dude in my 40s on this board, please don't stereotype me. I've been well aware of the "rape culture" of which you speak since my days on campus in the 80s when there would be a frat house rape at least once a year.
First legal advice I ever gave was to a friend, who was describing how some drunk woman was so drunk that she thought he was her boyfriend, which he was not - he was a stranger at a club. Sordid details will not be written here. Point is, him and his friends had no concept that her obvious and severe intoxication was not a license for sexual interaction.

I also had a good friend who got raped when she was drunk, at a party, with a couple of women she thought were her friends watching and cheering on the rapist.

I don't like the term "rape culture," because it implies too much, but I think the point is valid.

My apologies, didn't mean to offend.

 

[SubbaBub]

Speaking as one of the few people here who is actually a college student (and one who interacts with college-aged males on a daily basis), rape culture does exist. As I see it, rape culture is the pervasive idea amongst male college students that consent from a female s e xual partner is as best optional and at worst not a consideration. In dorm rooms, hallways, and around campus, males discussing females as s e xual objects with a sense of entitlement ("of course we're going to hook up", "she better blow me") happens all the time. I know males on my campus (and others) who have exhibited predatory behavior towards intoxicated females with the belief that because she's drunk, it's okay to do whatever even if she doesn't say "yes".

It's easy to be a dude in your 40s on a basketball message board and say that "rape culture" is a myth perpetrated by those nasty liberals/feminists. All I can say is, if I were a chick on campus, I wouldn't feel nearly as safe as I do otherwise.

That's interesting because statistically, non college females are more likely to be victims of s assault than college females. Is there a hookup culture amongst co-eds, since the origin of the term co-ed. I find it near impossible to classify every possible variant of the male/female relationship as a culture. Do certain males cross the line of decency, yup. Do females have unrealistic expectations of certain aspects of these relationships, yup again. Does the justice system require a certain amount of participation on the part of the victim, always.

So, a few rules. If you are a male and your date isn't interested in a more intimate relationship, go home. If you are a female keep your head about you an think ahead at least a half an hour for your own safety. Also, understand that college aged males are not generally interested in your fairy tale princess storylines. Most are looking for a LTR, but some aren't. Don't put yourself in the position of intimacy brinksmanship. It's not your fault if some cad crosses the line, but I don't walk down dark alleys with hundred dollars bill taped to my back.

If you follow these rules and still find yourself under attack, fight back verbally, loudly if necessary, and physically if necessary. Any beating you might take won't be nearly as bad a the trauma of rape. Report the attack to authorities immediately, don't worry about your reputation, facing your accuser, the legal process or anything else. If you don't you invite all the bad outcomes quoted by people wh0 don't report immediately. There are services and support available to you. If you don't get it from the university or police, keep trying someone will help you.

If you go home and the next day are wondering if you were assaulted, you most likely were not. You made a poor decision, it's college, it happens. Learn from it and don't do it again.

It will be difficult and there isn't much anyone can do about it except see that you get what care and support you need but, to expect anyone to look out for your interests if you won't look out for yourself is asking for disappointment.

 

[Cheeky]

My apologies, didn't mean to offend.

Not offended at all, so no apology needed.

Really just wanted to say that, while you are dead on accurate that many folks in my generation believe a certain thing and won't be convinced of any other truth, there are some of us who haven't bought into the culture in which we were raised.

For example:

Heard a guy my age bitching about kids drinking Red Bull, and asking, "how can they drink that crap." Meanwhile, the guy is holding a cup of coffee. I said, "it's just their coffee." He didn't get it. And he never will. And he was about 50.

 

[jackanddanny8]

Just a tad. Two women, both of whom refused to make an official complaint to the University or go to the Police.

But Duke didn't do.... what ? The Athletic Dept is supposed to investigate alleged assaults based on gossip... the grapevine... hearsay ? WTF?!

This is a non story. K found out, kicked him off the team. Didn't make a big stink of it. Why would he? The boy probably screwed up, but nobody's coming forward. If you're the gir

 

[joober jones]

This is a non story. K found out, kicked him off the team. Didn't make a big stink of it. Why would he? The boy probably screwed up, but nobody's coming forward. If you're the gir

It's a non story if "K" is more speedy in the dismissal.

 

[David 76]

That's interesting because statistically, non college females are more likely to be victims of s assault than college females.

If you go home and the next day are wondering if you were assaulted, you most likely were not. You made a poor decision, it's college, it happens. Learn from it and don't do it again.

First paragraph: What does this mean? A women spends about 5% of her life in college. Less when you count summer & breaks, You want 51% of her sexual assaults to occur during that small slice of her life. Then subtract the women who don't go to college, or don't to 4 years and your statement is really meaningless.
Kavanaughed happens 3X more often on college campuses. Underreacting to sexual assault by college administrations was a national embarrassment. People being more worried about PR than victims.

2nd paragraph: Are you Bill Cosby?

 

[SubbaBub]

First paragraph: What does this mean? A women spends about 5% of her life in college. Less when you count summer & breaks, You want 51% of her sexual assaults to occur during that small slice of her life. Then subtract the women who don't go to college, or don't to 4 years and your statement is really meaningless.
Kavanaughed happens 3X more often on college campuses. Underreacting to sexual assault by college administrations was a national embarrassment. People being more worried about PR than victims.

2nd paragraph: Are you Bill Cosby?

Need to separate the moral/emotional response from the legal/judicial one.

I do not knowing any of these people, have no idea who is being accurate. Yet I'm asked by the media, advocacy groups to prejudice any man who is rumored to have acted badly. Sorry, I've seen too much to do that. Especially, if the victim had no interest is pursuing justice. If she's not interested in telling her story to the authorities, then I find it difficult to sympathize as a unconnected observer.

If someone robs my house and I don't report it, how can I expect the insurance company to honor my claim?

Regardless of the difficulty to the accuser, it's necessary to validate their claim. I don't care what the percentages of false claims is. It is enough to question any individual episode. To not uphold the standard of innocent until proven guilty, isn't right.

 

[David 76]

Sounds like you have a bias. Two seperate women reported seperate incidents about one guy at an official college activity. It doesn't make the guy guilty but it is time to call the police. (I would say one report reaches that criteria.)

As far as your inability to sympathize with victims having a hard time putting themselves out there, that is too bad.

 

[SubbaBub]

Sounds like you have a bias. Two seperate women reported seperate incidents about one guy at an official college activity. It doesn't make the guy guilty but it is time to call the police. (I would say one report reaches that criteria.)

As far as your inability to sympathize with victims having a hard time putting themselves out there, that is too bad.

No one reported anything. That is the point. There is zero to be taken from stories told at what amounts to a feels circle when it isn't backed up to authorities. Your bias is to toss procedure. These women have everything they need to press their case and choose not to do anything. That includes acknowledging they told the story for which the school would be required to report their testimony to police and likely be enough to expel the player. They didn't.

So the facts, as we currently find them, equally support this player as a predator as they do that these two woman were looking to make time with a campus star and seek to smear him because the relationship, whatever it was, didn't work out to their satisfaction. Rape is a violent act that leaves some signs, torn clothes, bruises, internal trauma.

At this point, the player has a stronger case for defamation than the women have for assault. If he is completely innocent, he still couldn't risk charges or else invite the women to ramp up their complaints as a defense. Duke Lacrosse, Duke Lacrosse, Duke Lacrosse. If these women were attacked, file charges or move on. If they missed their chance by waiting too long or concerning themselves with what Duke people think, that is tragic.

 

[David 76]

No! It came up in front of staff. It should be reported to police. I work with High School kids. If anyone on my staff didn't pursue the issue, they would be in huge trouble. If it came out that I sat on it, you would read in the papers what an incompetent fool I was.
Guilt or false accusation, it doesn't matter. That is the job of the police & court. I'm guessing you don't work in a place where these issues come up College employees have a greater need to report than one's nosy neighbor

 

[SubbaBub]

No! It came up in front of staff. It should be reported to police. I work with High School kids. If anyone on my staff didn't pursue the issue, they would be in huge trouble. If it came out that I sat on it, you would read in the papers what an incompetent fool I was.
Guilt or false accusation, it doesn't matter. That is the job of the police & court. I'm guessing you don't work in a place where these issues come up College employees have a greater need to report than one's nosy neighbor

Okay, according to the article they brought it up to whatever dept at Duke handles this for Title IX. And the women said....nothing. Otherwise, there would be charges. I can only assume that. Otherwise, Duke is in some trouble here.

Everyone involved here has a job, victim, school, police. The article appears to say they did it. Now what?

And stop presuming that I don't understand the issues here. He may be very guilty but to verify that you need someone to at the very least file a complaint. You don't seem to understand the legal thresholds or the possibility these girls aren't being completely honest.

 

[David 76]

One of us is confused. I think it was a matter to ring to the police.

They pick 56 people for a retreat and one says he sexually assaulted her. Story spread through Bball hierarchy'.
Thee months later they pick 56 people for a retreat and another female says the same kid committed another SA.
No one calls the police to investigate.
Next fall the player gets thrown off the team for ambiguous reasons
The alleged victims never filed a complaint so you think it is appropriate. So, if someone is murdered, then there should never be charges