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OT - Surface Pro 4 & Surface Book

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jleves

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You gotta get creative. I doubt you'll get a direct discount as the 13 was just updated. But cyber Monday deals might come through to assuage some of that cost. jleves suggested trying Costco, as he's gotten good deals there in the past. I checked recently, and they had $300 off the 15, but nothing off the 13. And they don't offer customization.

I'm probably going to buy directly from Dell with a couple of things taken into account: If you get 12 mo financing, they give you $150 in rewards to use at their extensively stocked online shop. So for any gear I need in the future, I've got credits. They also give you a $50 to $100 off coupon that you can use on the laptop, depending on when you buy. Also, I think you can get a free drone too! Yes, that excites me.

Now, to further your savings, buy a bunch of dell giftcards online. You can use these to buy a laptop at the dell website. These giftcards can be purchased at something like a 7% discount to value. So you save 7% off whatever you buy. Free money.

Furthermore, if you are going to get Office, or upgrade to Windows Professional, don't do it through the Dell site. For Office, buy a copy of Office 2013 for something like $50 online. Office 2013 is about the same as 2016. So you don't lose out at all there, just save $100 on the price. Don't bother with Office 365, as who wants to pay a yearly subscription for something you can get pretty much the same for a one time fee. Obviously, if you have an educational license, go that route.

Now for Pro Windows, buy a copy of Windows 7 Pro or Win 8.1 Pro online for $35. You'll get the free upgrade to Windows 10, spend $15 less, and you won't have to have any crap ware installed on your PC that way.

I'll keep you updated if I think of anything else.
Can you point me to a site where I can get Office 2013 or 2016 for $50? I need to get a copy for the Surface which I decided to keep.

As a weird side note major annoyance on the Surface Pro: Clicking the top of the pen automatically brings up OneNote, but only the free version. If you buy Office or Office365, it doesn't open up that version and there is no way to change it without installing some 3rd party product that let's you assign F keys. 95% of people who are going to buy a Surface Pro are going to load some version of Office and having the pen slaved to only the free version of OneNote is ridiculous. Hopefully they fix this soon.
 

Fishy

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Can you point me to a site where I can get Office 2013 or 2016 for $50? I need to get a copy for the Surface which I decided to keep.

I have an extra yearly sub for Office 365 Home.

It's one install on a computer and one on a tablet or smart phone. I already have a larger plan that covers the family and office, so you're welcome to it - just texted you the license key.
 
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I am leaning towards the XPS 15 as well, given early reviews of both. Cheaper, for more power, and the screen is ridiculous. No bezel drops the size down, so it has a similar foot print to the Surface Book. It's a bit heavier, but not egregiously so, given it's got 2" more screen size (portability is a huge factor for me). Plus it has amazing battery life. I can get pen and design functionality with a separate tablet.

I purchased the Dell XPS 15 about a year ago with touch screen. CPU was tops last year ( i7-4702HQ), dedicated video card, SSD, etc...

The thing is a beast, runs anything I throw at it (however I'm not a photoshop, poser. video software user). The touch screen is responsive, however I habitually use a mouse and often forget its touch screen. It 'only' weighs 4 lbs. Highly recommend it. I'm sure the later models have upgraded components.

For my tablet needs I brought a Dragon tablet, cheap but excellent tablet:. Linky

For the Surface Book price you can get a desktop, tablet and laptop. Its attractive and all but I mishandle and misplace stuff too much, even consider spending that kind of loot. I do wonder what the cost to build is for Microsoft for those Surface automobiles.
 
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Well boys, I decided to buy the Surface Book the other day. My personal Laptop is pretty much cooked and I had been using my work one for some personal things. Work is going to VPN AlwaysOn which will block a lot of things, such as GMail and such, so I had to get something sooner than later.

Also, I got some recent cash, not a huge amount, but a nice chunk from my Dad's inheritance...yeah, it's been a tough year between this and the other news a dropped the other day. I've yet to search for any nearby bridges :), not that people are all that worried, but I'm doing more than fine considering. So normally I would not fork over $2k for anything, but I felt since I needed a laptop and my Asus Android Transformer tablet bit the bullet a while ago, I'd get this 2-in-1 device which would likely be used much more as a laptop though sometimes as a tablet.

What impacted my decision to buy this bad boy is the physical attributes of the device in addition to its internal specs. The thing is build like a tank. It's just about all metal construction, sans the keys on the keyboard which I think are plastic. My past laptops seem to begin to physically breakdown, especially at the hinges and at the charging port. I looked at a lot of the laptops and all are built with just two hinges that hold the screen to the keyboard, which I'd fear would wear out after a couple years or so. The plastic construction on a lot of devices also tend to pull apart overtime as well, at least that's what has happened with some of my prior devices (HP, Toshiba to name a couple). The Surface Book has that magnetic, and I assume physical, locking method. The hinge is an accordion type deal that runs the entire span between the keyboard and screen. Just seems like the hardware will outlast the internal stuff, but since it has the top of the line processor, or close to it, Intel Core i7 and 8GB Memory...(Hopefully 8GB is enough for what I will ever do. To go to 16GB would have run me another $600 or so more, so no thanks!)...this device should take care of me for the foreseeable future for the type of things that I use the device for.

The device boots up super fast. Seems to perform real well, though it once froze up with the system running...fan was running even with the cover shut...where I had to cold boot it. BTW, I was freaking out since I couldn't seem to figure out how to cold boot it. I tried holding down the power button which didn't work for me, but a buddy of mine who had come over to watch the Pats game with me took over. He did the same thing I did, but held the power button down longer than I did and it finally booted. Yeah, that has me a tad concerned considering how much this device cost me. I guess a $2K laptop can crap out just as much as a $300 one.

Anyhow, I pulled the trigger and so far I'm happy with my new toy.
 
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Ok - potential change of plans...

Anybody want to convince me NOT to buy the Lenovo Yoga 900 instead of the XPS 13?

Putting aside their fundamental difference (convertible versus laptop only) and the fact that the Yoga has about 9 hours of battery at best...can anyone give me a good reason not to buy the Yoga 900?
 

junglehusky

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OK I got the base Surface Book, have had it for the better part of a week now. I'm used to using pens from my previous computer, a Lenovo X200 convertible tablet PC running Windows 7. (The replacement battery on that boy was on its last legs and rather than replace the battery I figured it was time to leap into the future after avoiding windows 8 machines for a few years.) I might be slightly biased in that I am one of the people who prefers using a pen to typing, I think in college and grad school lectures taking notes by hand helped me remember things better although probably typing is faster for most people. So instead of a notebook or folder of notes I have OneNote. I don't usually convert my handwriting to text, on my older Lenovo that didn't always perform that well. Might try it on the new machine to see if it's improved. But even if your handriting isn't digitized, it's still keyword searchable in OneNote which I find useful.

But anyway - about the Surface Book. The magnesium frame does kinda scream MacBook but the display form factor at 4:3 instead of 16:9 is somewhat distinctive. It's almost big enough to use two-page view for reading a document, but where I really like it is to ink/annotate a PDF in portrait mode. Here it ouperforms my older machine - the pen is responsive, smooth and the pressure sensitivity is nice. A PDF inking program called Drawboard was included which I've been using. There is also a painting type of program where you can mix oils and stuff, but probably one of the target markets for this technology is artists using Illustrator. I'm not artistic enough to learn/buy Illustrator, but a couple of the reviews did have artists try it out and they sounded positive about it. This technology has progressed - if you think it's the same as drawing with your finger on an iPad, it's not, it's much more precise and responsive, although I recognize not everybody places the same value on that (and the next iPad is also going to have an improved pen despite Steve Job's wishes).

Display looks great, I've been leaving it on auto brightness but if you pump up the brightness adjustment it gets REALLY bright. I have had an issue a couple times with the display driver hanging using multiple tabs on firefox, I haven't noticed a consistent cause for that yet. Hopefully it'll go away with an update.

Typing is fine, keys are spaced well. The trackpad is large, which I like, and while I have noticed some press issues that @jleves mentioned, it happens less at the bottom of the trackpad... and you can use another finger or your other hand to press/click somewhere else on the trackpad (and you might be used to doing this if you previously used a trackpad with buttons at the bottom). I have gotten in the habit of using the touch screen to scroll especially during web browsing. But I'm keeping my mouse for use with the second monitor I plug into at work.

Sound is pretty good, you even get nice left-right separation. Boot up is fast! I didn't spring for the graphics upgrade, not being a gamer. Still, everything is responsive and quick-loading, I don't think I'll have any awkward freeze-ups running power point. I haven't thrown anything too intense at the processor, maybe later I'll try running some intense tracking code in MATLAB and see how it does compared to some of our workstations...

As far as battery life - it's fine as long as you keep the screen attached to the base. If you detach and go tablet mode, the battery in the screen should last long enough for a meeting (even a long meeting like the ones I'm used to... but that's neither here nor there) but it probably won't get you through a full afternoon. To take advantage of both batteries, you can detach, flip it around, reattach to the base and fold it down; I anticipate doing this for conferences and that sort of thing. In tablet mode, the form factor is definitely not one where you'll be holding it in your hand walking down the street like a phablet. That's not what it's for. They call it a digital clipboard and that's how people will use it, the same way you tuck a clipboard under your arm and then (if you're standing) hold it in your left hand with the bottom edge braced against your sternum or in the crook of your elbow so you can write with your right if you're right-handed. Sitting at a table or with it on your lap is fine in either laptop or tablet detached mode. I was worried about the screen wobbling but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

So maybe it comes down to this - do you want to be a pen user or need a large touch screen, or are you happy using Windows the way it was in the XP thru Windows 7 era? Do you want a premium machine with the latest tech? It's not a cheap computer, that's for sure. If you wait a year or so, it's possible other manufacturers will have similar convertible or detachable Windows 10 machines with similar performance, maybe a little bit more affordable, depending on the specs. I don't see this as being something for college students, for example - probably a Surface Pro or something from Dell or Acer would be the target here. On the other hand, most people these days spend more time on the computer than they do in the car, for example. So an argument can be made for forking over a few hundred more for a premium product if you do want the extra functionality.
 

intlzncster

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OK I got the base Surface Book, have had it for the better part of a week now. I'm used to using pens from my previous computer, a Lenovo X200 convertible tablet PC running Windows 7. (The replacement battery on that boy was on its last legs and rather than replace the battery I figured it was time to leap into the future after avoiding windows 8 machines for a few years.) I might be slightly biased in that I am one of the people who prefers using a pen to typing, I think in college and grad school lectures taking notes by hand helped me remember things better although probably typing is faster for most people. So instead of a notebook or folder of notes I have OneNote. I don't usually convert my handwriting to text, on my older Lenovo that didn't always perform that well. Might try it on the new machine to see if it's improved. But even if your handriting isn't digitized, it's still keyword searchable in OneNote which I find useful.

But anyway - about the Surface Book. The magnesium frame does kinda scream MacBook but the display form factor at 4:3 instead of 16:9 is somewhat distinctive. It's almost big enough to use two-page view for reading a document, but where I really like it is to ink/annotate a PDF in portrait mode. Here it ouperforms my older machine - the pen is responsive, smooth and the pressure sensitivity is nice. A PDF inking program called Drawboard was included which I've been using. There is also a painting type of program where you can mix oils and stuff, but probably one of the target markets for this technology is artists using Illustrator. I'm not artistic enough to learn/buy Illustrator, but a couple of the reviews did have artists try it out and they sounded positive about it. This technology has progressed - if you think it's the same as drawing with your finger on an iPad, it's not, it's much more precise and responsive, although I recognize not everybody places the same value on that (and the next iPad is also going to have an improved pen despite Steve Job's wishes).

Display looks great, I've been leaving it on auto brightness but if you pump up the brightness adjustment it gets REALLY bright. I have had an issue a couple times with the display driver hanging using multiple tabs on firefox, I haven't noticed a consistent cause for that yet. Hopefully it'll go away with an update.

Typing is fine, keys are spaced well. The trackpad is large, which I like, and while I have noticed some press issues that @jleves mentioned, it happens less at the bottom of the trackpad... and you can use another finger or your other hand to press/click somewhere else on the trackpad (and you might be used to doing this if you previously used a trackpad with buttons at the bottom). I have gotten in the habit of using the touch screen to scroll especially during web browsing. But I'm keeping my mouse for use with the second monitor I plug into at work.

Sound is pretty good, you even get nice left-right separation. Boot up is fast! I didn't spring for the graphics upgrade, not being a gamer. Still, everything is responsive and quick-loading, I don't think I'll have any awkward freeze-ups running power point. I haven't thrown anything too intense at the processor, maybe later I'll try running some intense tracking code in MATLAB and see how it does compared to some of our workstations...

As far as battery life - it's fine as long as you keep the screen attached to the base. If you detach and go tablet mode, the battery in the screen should last long enough for a meeting (even a long meeting like the ones I'm used to... but that's neither here nor there) but it probably won't get you through a full afternoon. To take advantage of both batteries, you can detach, flip it around, reattach to the base and fold it down; I anticipate doing this for conferences and that sort of thing. In tablet mode, the form factor is definitely not one where you'll be holding it in your hand walking down the street like a phablet. That's not what it's for. They call it a digital clipboard and that's how people will use it, the same way you tuck a clipboard under your arm and then (if you're standing) hold it in your left hand with the bottom edge braced against your sternum or in the crook of your elbow so you can write with your right if you're right-handed. Sitting at a table or with it on your lap is fine in either laptop or tablet detached mode. I was worried about the screen wobbling but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

So maybe it comes down to this - do you want to be a pen user or need a large touch screen, or are you happy using Windows the way it was in the XP thru Windows 7 era? Do you want a premium machine with the latest tech? It's not a cheap computer, that's for sure. If you wait a year or so, it's possible other manufacturers will have similar convertible or detachable Windows 10 machines with similar performance, maybe a little bit more affordable, depending on the specs. I don't see this as being something for college students, for example - probably a Surface Pro or something from Dell or Acer would be the target here. On the other hand, most people these days spend more time on the computer than they do in the car, for example. So an argument can be made for forking over a few hundred more for a premium product if you do want the extra functionality.

Thanks for the review.
 
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OK I got the base Surface Book, have had it for the better part of a week now. I'm used to using pens from my previous computer, a Lenovo X200 convertible tablet PC running Windows 7. (The replacement battery on that boy was on its last legs and rather than replace the battery I figured it was time to leap into the future after avoiding windows 8 machines for a few years.) I might be slightly biased in that I am one of the people who prefers using a pen to typing, I think in college and grad school lectures taking notes by hand helped me remember things better although probably typing is faster for most people. So instead of a notebook or folder of notes I have OneNote. I don't usually convert my handwriting to text, on my older Lenovo that didn't always perform that well. Might try it on the new machine to see if it's improved. But even if your handriting isn't digitized, it's still keyword searchable in OneNote which I find useful.

But anyway - about the Surface Book. The magnesium frame does kinda scream MacBook but the display form factor at 4:3 instead of 16:9 is somewhat distinctive. It's almost big enough to use two-page view for reading a document, but where I really like it is to ink/annotate a PDF in portrait mode. Here it ouperforms my older machine - the pen is responsive, smooth and the pressure sensitivity is nice. A PDF inking program called Drawboard was included which I've been using. There is also a painting type of program where you can mix oils and stuff, but probably one of the target markets for this technology is artists using Illustrator. I'm not artistic enough to learn/buy Illustrator, but a couple of the reviews did have artists try it out and they sounded positive about it. This technology has progressed - if you think it's the same as drawing with your finger on an iPad, it's not, it's much more precise and responsive, although I recognize not everybody places the same value on that (and the next iPad is also going to have an improved pen despite Steve Job's wishes).

Display looks great, I've been leaving it on auto brightness but if you pump up the brightness adjustment it gets REALLY bright. I have had an issue a couple times with the display driver hanging using multiple tabs on firefox, I haven't noticed a consistent cause for that yet. Hopefully it'll go away with an update.

Typing is fine, keys are spaced well. The trackpad is large, which I like, and while I have noticed some press issues that @jleves mentioned, it happens less at the bottom of the trackpad... and you can use another finger or your other hand to press/click somewhere else on the trackpad (and you might be used to doing this if you previously used a trackpad with buttons at the bottom). I have gotten in the habit of using the touch screen to scroll especially during web browsing. But I'm keeping my mouse for use with the second monitor I plug into at work.

Sound is pretty good, you even get nice left-right separation. Boot up is fast! I didn't spring for the graphics upgrade, not being a gamer. Still, everything is responsive and quick-loading, I don't think I'll have any awkward freeze-ups running power point. I haven't thrown anything too intense at the processor, maybe later I'll try running some intense tracking code in MATLAB and see how it does compared to some of our workstations...

As far as battery life - it's fine as long as you keep the screen attached to the base. If you detach and go tablet mode, the battery in the screen should last long enough for a meeting (even a long meeting like the ones I'm used to... but that's neither here nor there) but it probably won't get you through a full afternoon. To take advantage of both batteries, you can detach, flip it around, reattach to the base and fold it down; I anticipate doing this for conferences and that sort of thing. In tablet mode, the form factor is definitely not one where you'll be holding it in your hand walking down the street like a phablet. That's not what it's for. They call it a digital clipboard and that's how people will use it, the same way you tuck a clipboard under your arm and then (if you're standing) hold it in your left hand with the bottom edge braced against your sternum or in the crook of your elbow so you can write with your right if you're right-handed. Sitting at a table or with it on your lap is fine in either laptop or tablet detached mode. I was worried about the screen wobbling but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

So maybe it comes down to this - do you want to be a pen user or need a large touch screen, or are you happy using Windows the way it was in the XP thru Windows 7 era? Do you want a premium machine with the latest tech? It's not a cheap computer, that's for sure. If you wait a year or so, it's possible other manufacturers will have similar convertible or detachable Windows 10 machines with similar performance, maybe a little bit more affordable, depending on the specs. I don't see this as being something for college students, for example - probably a Surface Pro or something from Dell or Acer would be the target here. On the other hand, most people these days spend more time on the computer than they do in the car, for example. So an argument can be made for forking over a few hundred more for a premium product if you do want the extra functionality.
Well you convinced me. I'm going to buy one...Oh, I already did. :) Thanks for the review, junglehusky. Great job.
 

intlzncster

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Ok - potential change of plans...

Anybody want to convince me NOT to buy the Lenovo Yoga 900 instead of the XPS 13?

Putting aside their fundamental difference (convertible versus laptop only) and the fact that the Yoga has about 9 hours of battery at best...can anyone give me a good reason not to buy the Yoga 900?


What reasons make you want the yoga 900?
 
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What reasons make you want the yoga 900?

I need a machine that's very portable not only for travel but also around the house; I find myself spending quite a bit of time on our balconies and in need of a screen for heavy reading and light editing. I also don't want to be sitting up straight for long periods of time at a table - would rather be able to read like a book sometimes. So the Yoga 900 seems like a good fit for my use cases. The XPS is clearly a "better" computer but I don't like the idea of being confined to only the laptop orientation. I'm not a gamer and the more intensive processing I do for work isn't so frequent that I need to make this decision around it.

I do have to rethink my color choice - was going with the Clementine Orange but after that game...
 

intlzncster

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I need a machine that's very portable not only for travel but also around the house; I find myself spending quite a bit of time on our balconies and in need of a screen for heavy reading and light editing. I also don't want to be sitting up straight for long periods of time at a table - would rather be able to read like a book sometimes. So the Yoga 900 seems like a good fit for my use cases. The XPS is clearly a "better" computer but I don't like the idea of being confined to only the laptop orientation. I'm not a gamer and the more intensive processing I do for work isn't so frequent that I need to make this decision around it.

I do have to rethink my color choice - was going with the Clementine Orange but after that game...

It's a fine laptop, and the XPS is clearly "better", but as you say, given your usage parameters, the Yoga sounds like a good machine for you. I'm the same way w the XPS 13 vs 15. I could really use the 15's power, but portability is one of the top two requirements on my list, as I'm damn near always on the go. So the 13 it is.

The Yoga 900 gets pretty good reviews. There were a bunch of problems with last years model, but Lenovo, to its credit, has addressed most of them. The only knock on it is that the trackpad is not great. But if you are doing something with extensive cursor use, you can just get a cheap bluetooth mouse and problem solved. No reason not to get it.

I wouldn't get the orange. You'll get sick of it. While Black, grey, or silver are admittedly boring, they age well. Color not as much. Personal experience. The colors, especially around the corners, tend to wear off over time, and the machine consequently looks shabby. Even more so if you do a lot of travel.
 
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It's a fine laptop, and the XPS is clearly "better", but as you say, given your usage parameters, the Yoga sounds like a good machine for you. I'm the same way w the XPS 13 vs 15. I could really use the 15's power, but portability is one of the top two requirements on my list, as I'm damn near always on the go. So the 13 it is.

The Yoga 900 gets pretty good reviews. There were a bunch of problems with last years model, but Lenovo, to its credit, has addressed most of them. The only knock on it is that the trackpad is not great. But if you are doing something with extensive cursor use, you can just get a cheap bluetooth mouse and problem solved. No reason not to get it.

I wouldn't get the orange. You'll get sick of it. While Black, grey, or silver are admittedly boring, they age well. Color not as much. Personal experience. The colors, especially around the corners, tend to wear off over time, and the machine consequently looks shabby. Even more so if you do a lot of travel.

Thanks for the feedback and great point about the color wear too - duck_k orange!
 
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