OT: Deflategate: Powerful Accusations & Well Written. | Page 3 | The Boneyard

OT: Deflategate: Powerful Accusations & Well Written.

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toadfoot

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I really haven't read much about this whole matter other than headlines and honestly don't care much either way. But I am amazd at the array of mostly Boston-based academics that have taken the time to provide all this pseudo-scientific evidence to support Brady. I'd like to see how many Patriot shirts they have in their closets. LOL

Your first sentence says it all, but here's one example of your alleged pseudo scientist.

Drew Fustin:
PhD Physics (2012) – The University of Chicago [Experimental Dark Matter Physics – Juan Collar, advisor]
MS Physics (2005) – The University of Chicago
BS Physics, Mathematics, Astronomy (2004) – Drake University

I'm sure the University of Chicago hands out PhD's in physics to just anyone.
 

UcMiami

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I really haven't read much about this whole matter other than headlines and honestly don't care much either way. But I am amazd at the array of mostly Boston-based academics that have taken the time to provide all this pseudo-scientific evidence to support Brady. I'd like to see how many Patriot shirts they have in their closets. LOL
A lot of them are actually NY and PA based scientists. The brief is filed by an LI based attorney I believe who is a big fan of the Giants I think. Two of the best writers on this subject and the papers who have been most critical of the NFL are Dallas News and Washington Post
 
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Y
Drew Fustin:
PhD Physics (2012) – The University of Chicago [Experimental Dark Matter Physics – Juan Collar, advisor]
MS Physics (2005) – The University of Chicago
BS Physics, Mathematics, Astronomy (2004) – Drake University

I'm sure the University of Chicago hands out PhD's in physics to just anyone.

In the interest of full disclosure I am a Giant fan so I have no grudge against the Patriots. But I think you missed this part of Dr Fustin's resume:

After becoming an obsessive fan in 1993 when the Patriots drafted Drew Bledsoe, because we had the same name (which, to my 11 year old brain, made a ton of sense),

http://drewfustin.com/deflategate/

Dr Fustin may have made his bones in Chicago but his heart lies in Beantown. :rolleyes:
 

Husky25

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I really haven't read much about this whole matter other than headlines and honestly don't care much either way. But I am amazd at the array of mostly Boston-based academics that have taken the time to provide all this pseudo-scientific evidence to support Brady. I'd like to see how many Patriot shirts they have in their closets. LOL
If you have read only the headlines, which the NFL has virtually controlled by way of ESPN, then how can you conclude that the Pro-Brady evidence is pseudo-scientific, but come to no conclusion (let alone negative) about the NFL's "evidence?"
 

Husky25

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Air comes out of car tires, bicycles, basketballs, and ballons etc. and just about anything containing air. Thats why they have pumps etc. So what in the blue moon ever made Goodell thought a football was airproof? SMH.
Air does not exactly come out of "car tires, bicycles, basketballs, and ballons etc. and just about anything containing air."

The molecules contract as the temperature decreases.
 
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I really haven't read much about this whole matter other than headlines and honestly don't care much either way. But I am amazd at the array of mostly Boston-based academics that have taken the time to provide all this pseudo-scientific evidence to support Brady. I'd like to see how many Patriot shirts they have in their closets. LOL

Please read more and let us know if us know if your opinion has changed afterward.
 

toadfoot

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In the interest of full disclosure I am a Giant fan so I have no grudge against the Patriots. But I think you missed this part of Dr Fustin's resume:



http://drewfustin.com/deflategate/

Dr Fustin may have made his bones in Chicago but his heart lies in Beantown. :rolleyes:

I was fully aware that Fustin is a Patriots fan, he makes no pretense otherwise, but that doesn't negate the facts of his paper. You also apparently miss the irony that you can accuse him of bias because he's a Patriots fan, but excuse your own as a fan of another team.
Since you accuse him of bias I eagerly await your scholarly rebuttal to his analysis.
 

JordyG

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You bring up a very important point about the phone. NFL...Knowing that They had all the information of a phone conversation already.

...It was fruitless to ask for TB12 phone. Unless something more sinister was at work.

Now I'm assuming here...They knew Brady would not give up his phone. They are not stupid toward player's policies regarding private property. But let's ask him for it anyway. So he could look guilty before the public by refusing, which said public was unaware of the player's policy.

This was just another tactical ploy of the NFL. They knew public opinon - who were ignorant toward player's policies - would weigh in and declare him guilty. And knew they would never get a phone. For which information they already had pertaining to the phone. Well I'll be dam.
Whether you believe the NFL and their scanty evidence or not let's put part of this cell phone canard to rest. The league NEVER asked Brady to surrender his cell. Few people would surrender such. What they asked was for him to surrender a print out of what BRADY would consider as texts relevant to the case. This is what was so puzzlingly refused.
 
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I was fully aware that Fustin is a Patriots fan, he makes no pretense otherwise, but that doesn't negate the facts of his paper. You also apparently miss the irony that you can accuse him of bias because he's a Patriots fan, but excuse your own as a fan of another team.
Since you accuse him of bias I eagerly await your scholarly rebuttal to his analysis.

I have 2 Super Bowl DVD's that I offer as evidence as why I have no bias against Brady or the Patriots. Why should I? And in any case, unlike Dr Fustin, I am not offering any argument either way.

What I find revealing though is that you intentionally posted his Chicago-based credentials as a rebuttal to my comment about Boston-based academics, knowing full well that he was a Patriot fan.
 

Husky25

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I have 2 Super Bowl DVD's that I offer as evidence as why I have no bias against Brady or the Patriots. Why should I? And in any case, unlike Dr Fustin, I am not offering any argument either way.

What I find revealing though is that you intentionally posted his Chicago-based credentials as a rebuttal to my comment about Boston-based academics, knowing full well that he was a Patriot fan.
For someone who doesn't care either way, you sure do post on the subject more often than one would expect.
 

toadfoot

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I have 2 Super Bowl DVD's that I offer as evidence as why I have no bias against Brady or the Patriots. Why should I? And in any case, unlike Dr Fustin, I am not offering any argument either way.

What I find revealing though is that you intentionally posted his Chicago-based credentials as a rebuttal to my comment about Boston-based academics, knowing full well that he was a Patriot fan.

You find it revealing of what exactly?
I posted Fustin's analysis specifically because he was a Patriots fan and was from the Boston area.
 
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You find it revealing of what exactly?
I posted Fustin's analysis specifically because he was a Patriots fan and was from the Boston area.

I posted this:

I really haven't read much about this whole matter other than headlines and honestly don't care much either way. But I am amazd at the array of mostly Boston-based academics that have taken the time to provide all this pseudo-scientific evidence to support Brady. I'd like to see how many Patriot shirts they have in their closets. LOL

My post clearly suggested bias due to them being Patriot fans. And your rebuttal was this:

Your first sentence says it all, but here's one example of your alleged pseudo scientist.

Drew Fustin:
PhD Physics (2012) – The University of Chicago [Experimental Dark Matter Physics – Juan Collar, advisor]
MS Physics (2005) – The University of Chicago
BS Physics, Mathematics, Astronomy (2004) – Drake University

I'm sure the University of Chicago hands out PhD's in physics to just anyone.

A reasonable person would assume you were saying he wasn't a Boston-based academic and therefore without bias. If you were honest about his fandom I wouldn't have had to Google him.

And for the record, I didn't call him or any of the Brady/Patriot supporters pseudo scientists. It is their arguments that are pseudo-science.

Believe me, I have nothing but contempt for the NFL commissioner. Their history with regards to domestic violence and traumatic head injuries has soured me to the entire sport.
 

Husky25

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And for the record, I didn't call him or any of the Brady/Patriot supporters pseudo scientists. It is their arguments that are pseudo-science.

The dust that used to be Robert Boyle, Joseph Louis Gay-Lussac, and Jacques Charles just rolled over in their respective graves.

You do believe in the properties of decomposition, don't you? Or is that just more pseudo-science?
 

toadfoot

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Whether you believe the NFL and their scanty evidence or not let's put part of this cell phone canard to rest. The league NEVER asked Brady to surrender his cell. Few people would surrender such. What they asked was for him to surrender a print out of what BRADY would consider as texts relevant to the case. This is what was so puzzlingly refused.

Your comment concerning Brady's phone is not entirely correct.

"Brady was able to obtain a log of all his phone calls and text messages, and since he had not changed phone numbers, this included calls and messages during the mysterious four-month gap. These were cross-referenced against communications listed in the Wells Report, and for the most part (with the exception of three missing texts) they matched, as Wells was given access to both Jastremski and McNally’s Patriots-supplied work phones. This is one of Brady’s strongest arguments that there are no missing damaging text messages: since Wells had access to Jastremski and McNally’s side of any damning conversations with Brady, why did he need Brady’s messages?

Of course, Wells wasn’t solely looking for Brady’s communication with Jastremski and McNally, but also whether he had used a variety of deflation-related terms with anybody else. And as pointed out in the NFL’s questioning of Brady, there are also three texts exchanged with Jastremski on February 7 that do not appear in the Wells Report:

Q. Let’s look back at NFL Exhibit 96, the letter from Mr. Yee to Commissioner Goodell. And I’m directing your attention to page 3 of the letter in the middle of the page. After Number 2, Jastremski, toward the end of that paragraph, it says, “The phone bills also show three text message exchanges on February 7, 2015 between 8:21 p.m. and 8:33 p.m. These occurred after the Super Bowl and were not mentioned or referenced in the Wells report.”

"As for the emails Wells originally requested, Brady had more luck in finding these. On June 3 his forensic examiner catalogued all 5,317 emails Brady sent or received between Sept. 1, 2014 and March 1, 2015. These emails were searched for the following terms:
k-ball, kball, gage, air-pump, airpump, needle, pin, PSI, pounds per square inch, 12.5, bladder, McNally, Bird, 1 pound, 1 lb, one pound, one lb, 2 pound, 2 lb, two pound, two lb, gaug* [the * means that all variations of “gaug” were included, such as gauge, gauging, gauged etc.], pump*, inflat*, deflat*, (game OR kick*) ball ~2 [this means Brady’s emails were searched to see whether the words “game” or “kick*” were found within two words of “ball”], (prep* OR rub*) AND (ball OR football) ~10, (investigat* OR meet* OR discuss* OR question) AND (championship OR Jan* 18 OR 1/18), investigat* AND (ball OR football OR Ind* OR Colts) ~10, (equilib* OR atmosphere* OR climat* OR environment* OR test* OR experiment) AND (ball OR football) ~10

"All the emails that came up in those searches were submitted as evidence in the ongoing suit, and we are still working our way through all of them (you can get a taste here). But from the forensic examiner’s report it seems like none of them were particularly relevant. For instance, the word bladder was found twice, both times referring to the human body, and the only time “one pound” was used was when discussing eating protein. A bunch of finance emails are included, as Brady discussed the economic concepts of deflation or inflation with others."
 

toadfoot

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I posted this:



My post clearly suggested bias due to them being Patriot fans. And your rebuttal was this:



A reasonable person would assume you were saying he wasn't a Boston-based academic and therefore without bias. If you were honest about his fandom I wouldn't have had to Google him.

And for the record, I didn't call him or any of the Brady/Patriot supporters pseudo scientists. It is their arguments that are pseudo-science.

Believe me, I have nothing but contempt for the NFL commissioner. Their history with regards to domestic violence and traumatic head injuries has soured me to the entire sport.

A reasonable person would have read his article where he identifies himself as a Patriots fan in the very first sentence.
 

toadfoot

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I posted this:



My post clearly suggested bias due to them being Patriot fans. And your rebuttal was this:



A reasonable person would assume you were saying he wasn't a Boston-based academic and therefore without bias. If you were honest about his fandom I wouldn't have had to Google him.

And for the record, I didn't call him or any of the Brady/Patriot supporters pseudo scientists. It is their arguments that are pseudo-science.

Believe me, I have nothing but contempt for the NFL commissioner. Their history with regards to domestic violence and traumatic head injuries has soured me to the entire sport.

I'd also appreciate links to the articles you claim are pseudoscience. I'll confess to having spent far more time than reasonable researching this, at least a dozen scientific articles about the Wells Report, everything from AEI's analysis to Drew Fustin to Robert Blecker and not a single one supports Wells' methodology or their conclusions.
 
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Whether you believe the NFL and their scanty evidence or not let's put part of this cell phone canard to rest. The league NEVER asked Brady to surrender his cell. Few people would surrender such. What they asked was for him to surrender a print out of what BRADY would consider as texts relevant to the case. This is what was so puzzlingly refused.

I think they had all they needed regarding texts From the other phones.

And if they didn't ask for it, why have a baby when he destroyed it. Especially after he provided them with texts which they disclose that was not related to the alleged incident.

They had nothing, So they had to go fishing. When you have all the evidence you need against me, no need to ask me for nothing else.

We can put this to rest now. Evidence? (Probable) than not he was aware?

Try using that in a court of law. See how puzzling the judge would be.
 
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Air does not exactly come out of "car tires, bicycles, basketballs, and ballons etc. and just about anything containing air."

The molecules contract as the temperature decreases.

What the hell. You serious?
 

Husky25

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What the hell. You serious?
???

It's possible for air to leak out of a ball with a faulty valve, but within the few hour timeframe involved with Deflate-____, the Ideal Gas Law applies better than all 11 tested balls having a faulty valve. Occum's Razor.
 

toadfoot

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What the hell. You serious?

Husky may not have been as precise in his language as wished. This is what I replied to an earlier post of yours.

Just have to quibble with one point. And just to preface my remarks I've seen similar comments made in other forums that claim it provides evidence of ball tampering. Air does not need to exit a football in order for PSI to decrease. The PSI decreases because the gas (air) contracts. I can't count the number of comments I've seen on other websites that claimed because of the inner bladder and leather covering, sufficient air couldn't have escaped in order to lower the PSI when the fact is that no air needed to escape in order to account for the PSI change. That's not to say that some air couldn't have escaped due to handling during the game, but it would have been insignificant relative to the affect of temperature.
 
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Husky may not have been as precise in his language as wished. This is what I replied to an earlier post of yours.

Just have to quibble with one point. And just to preface my remarks I've seen similar comments made in other forums that claim it provides evidence of ball tampering. Air does not need to exit a football in order for PSI to decrease. The PSI decreases because the gas (air) contracts. I can't count the number of comments I've seen on other websites that claimed because of the inner bladder and leather covering, sufficient air couldn't have escaped in order to lower the PSI when the fact is that no air needed to escape in order to account for the PSI change. That's not to say that some air couldn't have escaped due to handling during the game, but it would have been insignificant relative to the affect of temperature.

I read that already. The point is air or gas law. Don't matter which it is. The point is, as it has been proven by a kid. The ball when even left alone lost 2 PSI.

I get it. I understand you fully.
 
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We can argue air and gas laws all night.

This fact remains. There was no reliable or trustworthy evidence TB12 DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY deflated any footballs.

None....Except probabilities
 

toadfoot

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We can argue air and gas laws all night.

This fact remains. There was no reliable or trustworthy evidence TB12 DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY deflated any footballs.

None....Except probabilities

Agree. Neither is there any evidence that McNally, Jastremski or any other Patriots staff did so.
 
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1. The only person who ever referred to McNally as the "deflator" was McNally himself in a single text message in May of 2014. Part of the big lie in this entire process has been the notion that he was known as the deflator, when his nickname was actually "bird".

Just one thing to mention about this point: The deflategate truthers insist that McNally using the term "deflator" must be taken literally. They believe there can be no other interpretation of the word.

How would they explain his nickname of "Bird," then? Is he literally a bird? Or does he belong to a race of bird-like creatures that live among us? If "deflator" must be interpreted 100% literally, then "bird" must be also, which wouldn't make any sense.

Or they could admit that words can have more than one meaning and, when you're talking about banter between friends and nicknames, may not be used in their traditional sense. Being truthers, though, they will never accept that.
 
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