NCAA investigating 20 colleges for academic fraud

[CL82]

LINK

Did someone wake up over there or are they just beefing up an everyone does it defense for UNC?

 

[Kolumbo]

What?! Did they pick 20 random schools to investigate, or did they have reason to believe those institutions were committing fraud so finally decided to investigate? I wouldn't be surprised if it was somehow spurred by connections to UNC to deflect the spotlight.

 

[noeynox]

This is what happens when people keep insisting UNC be punished.

 

[EROCK CONN]

"In November the association’s Division I Committee on Infractions placed Weber State University on probation for three years and reduced scholarships in its football program after finding that a mathematics instructor there had helped five football players cheat. The instructor, who is no longer at the university, reportedly obtained access to players’ online accounts and helped them complete quizzes and tests."

If Weber State is the benchmark, than UNC may get a parking ticket.

 

[CL82]

Well, UNC is a two decade pattern of behavior that probably involves at least 100 players so it might justify just a bit more than that.

 

[Ldandy]

"In November the association’s Division I Committee on Infractions placed Weber State University on probation for three years and reduced scholarships in its football program after finding that a mathematics instructor there had helped five football players cheat. The instructor, who is no longer at the university, reportedly obtained access to players’ online accounts and helped them complete quizzes and tests."

If Weber State is the benchmark, than UNC may get a parking ticket.

Who the Hell would risk their personal career to help football players at Weber State cheat? If they didn't make grades would anyone not affiliated with the team know? Would anyone care? I understand where someone might feel pressured at UNC or some place like that, but Weber State?

AD- "Johnny Goldenarm was kicked of the team." 99.99% of the population- "Who's that?" AD- "Weber St's starting QB." 99%- "What's Weber State?"

 

[pj]

Who the Hell would risk their personal career to help football players at Weber State cheat? If they didn't make grades would anyone not affiliated with the team know? Would anyone care? I understand where someone might feel pressured at UNC or some place like that, but Weber State?

AD- "Johnny Goldenarm was kicked of the team." 99.99% of the population- "Who's that?" AD- "Weber St's starting QB." 99%- "What's Weber State?"

You might think that would matter, but the little fish in the small pool may care just as much about whether their tiny quarterback fish gets to stay in the school as the fish in the big lake.care about their giant quarterback fish.

 

[Exit 4]

Maybe this guy was the math instructor at Weber:

 

[Dooley]

This is what happens when people keep insisting UNC be punished.

Ha! I thought the same thing. "If we're going down, we're taking everyone down with us. Literally, everyone in the NCAA will go down."

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Ha! I thought the same thing. "If we're going down, we're taking everyone down with us. Literally, everyone in the NCAA will go down."

Like the old saying goes " misery likes company"
If they can make this into a pattern of abuse by a multitude, UNC crime will dimish in magnitude. This is a deliberate attempt on the NCAA to lessen the impact of the offense and simultainiously give cover to the NCAA to for their inaction.
It's the old but everyone is doing it strategy.
What this shows is the Entire leadership of the NCAA should be replaced ,their moral compass is stuck in spin mode.

 

[CONN Ed]

Perhaps it is a PSU thing. NCAA received such terrible press after PSU announcement maybe they are attempting to appear proactive. Yes, (much) different infractions, but just look at how strong and organized the NCAA is going after all the bad guys !!! Makes ya proud.

 

[billybud]

LOL...Gawd....conspiracies lurk in every corner.

Don't have any investigations? NCAA is incompetent.

Do have investigations? NCAA is incompetent.

Way, way back in the day, I took an operant conditioning course in rat psychology. A rat was conditioned that when a light came on at one side of the cage that he had 10 seconds before receiving a shock. The rat learned to move to the opposite side of the cage to avoid the shock.

Then the rules were changed...the shocks were randomly administered. It didn't matter where the rat ran. The light would come on and the rat would just hunker down and shiver and pee.

The NCAA can never win....punish, and it is too harsh, don't punish enough and you let the culprits run free. For them, it is a lose-lose situation.

 

[itgoeslike]

The NCAA has brought this on themselves through selective enforcement and inconsistent penalization. They've painted themselves into a corner with the UNC situation, and it's shining a light on how biased their actions are. Time create a little misdirection by putting the screws to some Sun Belt programs. . .

 

[CL82]

LOL...Gawd....conspiracies lurk in every corner.

Don't have any investigations? NCAA is incompetent.

Do have investigations? NCAA is incompetent.

Way, way back in the day, I took an operant conditioning course in rat psychology. A rat was conditioned that when a light came on at one side of the cage that he had 10 seconds before receiving a shock. The rat learned to move to the opposite side of the cage to avoid the shock.

Then the rules were changed...the shocks were randomly administered. It didn't matter where the rat ran. The light would come on and the rat would just hunker down and shiver and pee.

The NCAA can never win....punish, and it is too harsh, don't punish enough and you let the culprits run free. For them, it is a lose-lose situation.

Not sure what the point was, but your comparison of the NCAA to a rat sitting in its own excrement seems about right.

 

[Kolumbo]

Does anyone even take the NCAA seriously anymore? P5 want to split anyway. I wonder how many SEC teams are included in the "investigation."

 

[billybud]

For institutions in the middle. finding the correct enforcement policy is fraught with criticism.

In Florida, state employees have to visit homes and monitor the health and welfare of some children. Take a kid away from his mother because you may suspect the possibility of abuse, and you get blasted for interfering with parenting without solid evidence. That kid becomes a casualty the next week, and you get fired.

The NCAA isn't a totally independent body the way that we sometimes perceive it...they are the President's of the universities. The NCAA staff carry out the policies set by the university presidents.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

LOL...Gawd....conspiracies lurk in every corner.

Don't have any investigations? NCAA is incompetent.

Do have investigations? NCAA is incompetent.

Way, way back in the day, I took an operant conditioning course in rat psychology. A rat was conditioned that when a light came on at one side of the cage that he had 10 seconds before receiving a shock. The rat learned to move to the opposite side of the cage to avoid the shock.

Then the rules were changed...the shocks were randomly administered. It didn't matter where the rat ran. The light would come on and the rat would just hunker down and shiver and pee.

The NCAA can never win....punish, and it is too harsh, don't punish enough and you let the culprits run free. For them, it is a lose-lose situation.

Institutions can and will move to the "opposite side of the cage" when the results are known and predictable. Even rats understand that. It's when the results are decoupled from stimuli that everybody wets themselves. All the NCAA needs to do is knock off the crap that lets UNC, among others, skate.

 

[The Funster]

Not sure what the point was, but your comparison of the NCAA to a rat sitting in its own excrement seems about right.

BOOM

 

[billybud]

I think that the NCAA is well aware of the UNC scandal. And, the university presidents are also aware that if you look hard, you will find stuff at many universities.

We all are complicit.

Do we really believe that basketball players, with an average SAT 270 points below the student body, really all compete in college studies ? Or football players with an average 220 point SAT deficit below the student body average?

How do athletes who are barely functionally literate stay in college?

Guys like Oscar Davenport (UNC)...Wonderlic of 6....not literate..never made it to NFL

Frank Gore (Miami)...Wonderlic of 6....not functionally literate

Darren Davis (Iowa state)....Wonderlic of 5...what was he doing in college instead of a third grade reading class?

and on...

And we don't know about the NBA scores...because the NBA does not administer league wide tests...individual clubs might...but there are no leaks from clubs.

 

[CL82]

Mmm, never been a fan of the everyone's cheating so let's not enforce academic standards. There exists a standard (albeit a flawed one) called the APR. Others (I'm sure if you think about it you can name at least one institution) have been punished when their accurate reporting of grades resulted in failing to me a retroactively revised standard. But you are suggesting that we should let an institution with 2 decades of fraud go unpunished because "we are all guilty?"

Yeah you may be selling that in wrong place BB.

 

[noeynox]

I think that the NCAA is well aware of the UNC scandal. And, the university presidents are also aware that if you look hard, you will find stuff at many universities.

We all are complicit.

Do we really believe that basketball players, with an average SAT 270 points below the student body, really all compete in college studies ? Or football players with an average 220 point SAT deficit below the student body average?

How do athletes who are barely functionally literate stay in college?

Guys like Oscar Davenport (UNC)...Wonderlic of 6....not literate..never made it to NFL

Frank Gore (Miami)...Wonderlic of 6....not functionally literate

Darren Davis (Iowa state)....Wonderlic of 5...what was he doing in college instead of a third grade reading class?

and on...

And we don't know about the NBA scores...because the NBA does not administer league wide tests...individual clubs might...but there are no leaks from clubs.

So what you're saying is these "athletes" should be treated like the professional's they are in their craft, compensated for that and have no expectation to be "students"?

The problem with the NCAA is that their punishments are arbitrary. We got dinged TWICE, for the same set of APR scores. The UNC sham classes appear much, much worse, and initially the NCAA's response was that is not an NCAA issue since the sham classes were available to all students. Media pressure has caused them to revisit this, but there is hardly a hint of a slap on the wrist coming. NCAA is a joke when it comes to enforcement. We should have lied about our APR scores. WTF not.

 

[billybud]

I am not saying anything....other than we all know that some college athletes are not college material. Other than they can play a sport.

APR? If you have special classes, teachers on board, etc...what does APR mean other than a program kept the valuable athlete eligible.

UNC met that APR...so did other schools who had athletes who were barely literate.

Kevin Ross made headlines when he completed four years of college and could not read. Ross took the ACT, a standardized test for college-bound high school seniors. The average score for incoming Creighton freshmen was 23 out of a possible 36. Ross scored a nine. At first, the school refused to admit him, but Ross says the athletic department got that decision overturned.

Did they know you couldn't read?
ROSS - They had to. They had to know. I fulfilled my contract by playing for them so they should have fulfilled their contract by educating me.

 

[billybud]

So....A guy who could not read passed for four years...APR meant not too much.

Based on data from those requests and dozens of interviews, a CNN investigation revealed that most schools have between 7% and 18% of revenue sport athletes who are reading at an elementary school level. Some had even higher percentages of below-threshold athletes.

It isn't a secret. We all know that there are scholarship athletes who are not college material and that institutions have to fudge to keep them (and their APR) above the threshold necessary to play/

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I think that the NCAA is well aware of the UNC scandal. And, the university presidents are also aware that if you look hard, you will find stuff at many universities.

We all are complicit.

Do we really believe that basketball players, with an average SAT 270 points below the student body, really all compete in college studies ? Or football players with an average 220 point SAT deficit below the student body average?

How do athletes who are barely functionally literate stay in college?

Guys like Oscar Davenport (UNC)...Wonderlic of 6....not literate..never made it to NFL

Frank Gore (Miami)...Wonderlic of 6....not functionally literate

Darren Davis (Iowa state)....Wonderlic of 5...what was he doing in college instead of a third grade reading class?

and on...

And we don't know about the NBA scores...because the NBA does not administer league wide tests...individual clubs might...but there are no leaks from clubs.

You're painting with a mighty broad brush my friend. Mighty broad. And we're not ALL complicit. You make a fine case for anarchy though.

 

[billybud]

Oh...but we are all complicit...if you watch major college games on TV...support those stars...you are supporting the system that encourages non scholar athletes. We are, all who watch and support college sports, participants in creating the reward system.

We are complicit because we won't flock to the TV to watch a Division III match (or really even a Division II).

We are all complicit because we demand winning teams, demand coaches be fired for not winning....

You get what you reward...and the people have voted to reward winning.

Reward winning without being caught cheating...being caught is always the worst offense.