I don't get this UConn entitlement ...

[junglehusky]

So if the choice is a purely northeastern football conference, let's say UConn/Rutgers/Cuse/Pitt/Temple/BC/Maryland/UMass/Jets/Giants/Patriots, and let's say we have the same TV contract the BE has now per school, I'd prefer a NNBE (with Louisville, USF, Boise and the rest).

If the choice is a OBE/ACC hybrid, including Rutgers, Cuse, Pitt, UVa, Maryland, BC, UNC, Dook and a few others (assume FSU and Clemson leave) with their current TV deal on ESPN/ABC versus the NNBE with a slightly higher per school TV deal on NBC sports or Fox sports, I'd take the ACC and I'm fairly confident UConn would make that choice too.

If the scenario is somewhere in between (nelsonmuntz and I as well were wondering if the B1G wants to pilfer UNC/UVA) or if the NBC/Fox executives are smoking meth and give us a contract worth much more per school* than the ACC contract then it's a bit harder to decide.

*I don't know what distinguishes "slightly more" versus "much more" in these hypotheticals. But like when you tell your boss you interviewed with another company and will leave unless he bumps up your salary, UConn's bigwigs will have a number in mind. From what Fishy says, so far UConn's people aren't happy with the numbers they heard so far.

 

[UConnDan97]

So if the choice is a purely northeastern football conference, let's say UConn/Rutgers/Cuse/Pitt/Temple/BC/Maryland/UMass/Jets/Giants/Patriots, and let's say we have the same TV contract the BE has now per school, I'd prefer a NNBE (with Louisville, USF, Boise and the rest).

If the choice is a OBE/ACC hybrid, including Rutgers, Cuse, Pitt, UVa, Maryland, BC, UNC, Dook and a few others (assume FSU and Clemson leave) with their current TV deal on ESPN/ABC versus the NNBE with a slightly higher per school TV deal on NBC sports or Fox sports, I'd take the ACC and I'm fairly confident UConn would make that choice too.

If the scenario is somewhere in between (nelsonmuntz and I as well were wondering if the B1G wants to pilfer UNC/UVA) or if the NBC/Fox executives are smoking meth and give us a contract worth significantly more than the ACC contract then it's a bit harder to decide.

Too bad the Jets are in the first league. We had something good going there with the Pats and Giants!

 

[ZooCougar]

Hawai'i is upgrading their their parking lot, maybe we should add them too.

 

[Bootsthemonkey]

UConn joining the Big East in football was a slap in the face to the schools that invited them?

Temple was denied an opportunity? Losing 80 out of 90 games their first go around wasn't an opportunity?

Why does Memphis deserve an opportunity? What did they do to earn a shot - install a video board?

As for why Michigan hadn't pulled the plug, they would like to move the game to a neutral site - if they truly believe UConn won't agree to that - then they will work on who they can replace them with at home and if it's suitable they pull the plug.

Actually, yes. Let me ask you this - if the Big East had pulled the trigger on allowing Villanova in for football last year would you have been happy with that decision? I remember a lot of people talking or writing at the time that they were unhappy with having to play UConn in football when UConn was joining the Big East for that sport. And what part of UConn football at that time was impressive to the likes of Miami or Va Tech? Memorial stadium? The trailers? I know that bringing those up is like beating a dead horse but really, what part about UConn football at that time was so impressive that anyone was saying UConn really brought anything to the table for Big East football? Now we have a beautiful stadium, the state of the art training facility, many campus improvements. I'm comparing the national perception of UConn football back then - to teams you're evaluating now.

And when did I ever say that Temple was denied an opportunity?

 

[ZooCougar]

Actually, yes. Let me ask you this - if the Big East had pulled the trigger on allowing Villanova in for football last year would you have been happy with that decision? I remember a lot of people talking or writing at the time that they were unhappy with having to play UConn in football when UConn was joining the Big East for that sport. And what part of UConn football at that time was impressive to the likes of Miami or Va Tech? Memorial stadium? The trailers? I know that bringing those up is like beating a dead horse but really, what part about UConn football at that time was so impressive that anyone was saying UConn really brought anything to the table for Big East football? Now we have a beautiful stadium, the state of the art training facility, many campus improvements. I'm comparing the national perception of UConn football back then - to teams you're evaluating now.

And when did I ever say that Temple was denied an opportunity?

Villanova and UConn are not a useful comparison. UConn was a solid buy back in those days. The school had a demonstrated track record of building something out of nothing and the prevailing conventional wisdom was that UConn was upgrading the right way, which really means that we were spending enough money to get a more than adequate stadium and training facility that would be the envy of much of the league.

Nova's upgrades were about as far from being solidified as possible and there was even talk of the league assisting in the financing. What exactly were Nova's stadium plans exactly? Sharing space with an MLS team? A minor league baseball franchise? American Gladiators?

UConn's situation was far more developed and demonstrated true commitment. The trailers were a temporary state of affairs.

UConn did bring something to Big East football. We were a very healthy warm body and probably slightly ahead of the curve in our progression from I-AA to I-A, and the league needed those at the time. In fact we were ready to play conference football a year earlier than anticipated, and in that first year we won enough games in conference to make a bowl game and win it, which was more than our long time football playing comrades could say.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Villanova and UConn are not a useful comparison. UConn was a solid buy back in those days. The school had a demonstrated track record of building something out of nothing and the prevailing conventional wisdom was that UConn was upgrading the right way, which really means that we were spending enough money to get a more than adequate stadium and training facility that would be the envy of much of the league.

Nova's upgrades were about as far from being solidified as possible and there was even talk of the league assisting in the financing. What exactly were Nova's stadium plans exactly? Sharing space with an MLS team? A minor league baseball franchise? American Gladiators?

UConn's situation was far more developed and demonstrated true commitment. The trailers were a temporary state of affairs.

UConn did bring something to Big East football. We were a very healthy warm body and probably slightly ahead of the curve in our progression from I-AA to I-A, and the league needed those at the time. In fact we were ready to play conference football a year earlier than anticipated, and in that first year we won enough games in conference to make a bowl game and win it, which was more than our long time football playing comrades could say.

This isn't entirely accurate. UConn was (on our own) pursuing an upgrade to 1-A football as of 1990, when the original 16 team superconference concept was in real discussions among the Metro Conference members ad multiple division 1-A footblal independants - including Syracuse, Boston College, PIttsburgh, Temple, Rutgers, West Virginia, Miami, Virginia Tech.....

Former UConn president Harry Hartley and frmer AD Lew Perkins - got together and realized that if that conference formed, Big East basketball, was likely dead. UConn football, at the time, since 1978 - had downgraded from division 1 (small college) to 1-AA and had no part in anythign that was happening in the national intercollegiate restructuring

Lew presented a report to the BOT, and the project was put in motion, but quickly shelved and resurfaced a few times through the early 1990s. Joining the big east conference for football at the time, was a pipe dream, we simply wanted to do what UMass is trying to do right now.

BUt in 1994, the big east almost splintered in half. WOn't go into details. 1995, notre ame was added to appease bothsides. BY 1996, the league was again havng trouble, becuase of scheduling. Two teams were invited to be added. UConn and VIllanova. UConn BOT didn't go to formal vote until Oct. 1997, and after a report, co-authored by the former SEC commissioner, about the feasibility of an upgade for UCOnn was presented. Tht former SEC commissioner tabbed UConn - as an institution that was very similar to SEC institutions and had the potential to become like such an athletic department in size and stature in the national landscape. THe vote was approved in 1997 to official upgrade. The upgrade wasn't official until the summer of 2000, because of issues around facilities, location, and financiang.

The entry into a BCS conference? Without basketball in the Big East confernece, no way UConn ever upgrades into a BCS football conference.

BUt to say that we didn't bring anything, isn't correct. The potential UConn had to be successful was laid out clearly in a 1996 report commissioned by Roy Kramer, and presented to the BOT - which I've linked here before.

Villanova? Oh man. THey had open invitation to upgradefor 13 years, and after 13 years, they came up with proposal they presented in sping 2011.

Now that - was a big example of a slap in the face among big east conference leadership. I can only imagine what the leadership at Syracuse and Pittsburgh were thinking when the leadership of Villanova presented that plan.

IT's simple - they were thinking - let's get the hell out of here now. And they did.

 

[ZooCougar]

Carl,

It's my understanding, and it could be wrong, that UConn, as a charter member of the conference was virtually guaranteed a seat at the table football wise up until a certain date. We acted on it in time and Nova passed..

Due to the weird hybrid nature of the conference, this the only BCS conference that would ever do such a thing based on the politics.

If you go back far enough, you can paint UConn's upgrading effort in the most negative light possible. Everything starts as an idea and it takes time for the will of the Institution to be commited and acted upon.

Additionally, it wasn't like UConn moving was a response to the league falling apart. We upgraded with the assumption that we would be playing football with Miami, VT and BC and we weren't trying to do it on the cheap either.

I am not trying to see that UConn was God's gift to Big East football, but we pulled our weight from day one. There were some people who were dismissive, but they weren't fully informed or in some cases, they were flat out threatened by our progress.

The Villanova talk of upgrading was opportunistic based on our league's crisis. Do you think that discussion would have made it that far if the league was on solid footing? If we were not as desperate, then I highly doubt that anyone but the most incompetent management would give Villanova serious consideration at their meager plan of upgrading. Given all that, it just doesn't appear to be a useful comparison.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Carl,

It's my understanding, and it could be wrong, that UConn, as a charter member of the conference was virtually guaranteed a seat at the table football wise up until a certain date. We acted on it in time and Nova passed..

Due to the weird hybrid nature of the conference, this the only BCS conference that would ever do such a thing based on the politics.

If you go back far enough, you can paint UConn's upgrading effort in the most negative light possible. Everything starts as an idea and it takes time for the will of the Institution to be commited and acted upon.

Additionally, it wasn't like UConn moving was a response to the league falling apart. We upgraded with the assumption that we would be playing football with Miami, VT and BC and we weren't trying to do it on the cheap either.

I am not trying to see that UConn was God's gift to Big East football, but we pulled our weight from day one. There were some people who were dismissive, but they weren't fully informed or in some cases, they were flat out threatened by our progress.

The Villanova talk of upgrading was opportunistic based on our league's crisis. Do you think that discussion would have made it that far if the league was on solid footing? If we were not as desperate, then I highly doubt that anyone but the most incompetent management would give Villanova serious consideration at their meager plan of upgrading. Given all that, it just doesn't appear to be a useful comparison.

No - if by some chance, UConn had actually made the upgrade early in the 1990s, there was no invite to be playing in the Big East. THe invite didn't come until 1996. You are right, UConn's upgrade to 1-A didn't begin with anything having to do with the Big East conference - other than the threat that Big East basketball would end. The thought process of upgrading began before there even was a Big East football conference.

Understand this: The entire thought process of upgrading to 1-A football began with the premise of PROTECTING UCONN BASKETBALL. That is truth. There was a real and measurable threat to the newly minted UConn basketball program and the shiny new Gampel pavilion in 1990, and it had to do with the restructuring of the intercollegiate landscape nationally around division 1-A football, adn television broadcasting rights, and the restructing of the college football post season.

The invite, to UConn and VIllanova to upgrade in 1996, most definitely was a response to difficulty within the league, and mostly had to do with scheduling. The league needed more members to be able to schedule well, with the landscape shifting as much as it had, and virtually no independants left other than Notre Dame and Navy. Army had gone into a conference. I agree though, no other 1-A football conference would have done what the Big EAst did - they would have gone after other established 1-A programs. There's more to it, since the late 1990s, up until 2003, Mike Tranghese was in active discussions about moving football out of the big east. THat's real.

We did upgrade with the assumption that we would be in a league with Miami, VTech, BC, WVU, Cuse, Pitt, but if our leadership had been paying attention to what was happening b/w 1998-2002 with big east leadership, the national landscape of intercollegiate athletics, the newly formed BCS national championship game.......the fact that we would never get return game to Connecticut from a #1 team in the country in Miami should have come as no surprise. As well as all the other defections of the league.

Hell, I wanted out in 1997 as soon as the vote was official. Vast minority I was. While UConn basketball was winning it's first national men's title. It wasn't until Navy came on board that I was comfortable moving forward with the Big East.

 

[Pudge]

UConn was NOT a solid buy. You have your National Flag Blue eyeshades on. See ... here's the thing, that comes up over & over here, we are not all that different from a whole bunch of these other programs. I hear Brand. I hear we had a Stadium on the way. We had won a NC in Hoop. Many of these other misfit schools have that as well.

I actually got why Syracuse and Pitt showed disdain toward us. And BC acted like we were the Immigrant hotel cleaners getting into their school. Within a decade, we are (arguably) better than two of those Programs; and we can really be beyond the other as well. (imho) Louisville. USF. Cincinnati. Given a little opening, this upgrade happens.

A viable plan - leads to Big East membership. the scorn, dismissiveness, derision thrown at Memphis. Temple. even UCF. and some at San Diego State (I guess TCU and/or Boise is acceptable ... but we still can bitch about playing all the way over on that side of the country). We have an opportunity, directed by TV money, to make $7-10m (far beyond where we've been) through good fortune/timing. That's our path. And someone with a lot of due diligence chose a bunch of schools. It wasn't about Parking Lots ... but damn, you build a $1b Football complex to ante into this: guess what?

 

[Carl Spackler]

I agree Pudge. I hope you don't mind my blathering on your thread.

IN the late 1990s, in the eyes of long time division 1-A football playing institutions, UConn was still a Yankee Conference school. THey had reason to think so, beacuse we actually were a Yankee conference school, in every shape way and fashion, except for a nice basketball arena on campus that seated at the time, just over 8,000 people.

We were one of the state schools in the northeast and east coast, that willingly went 1-AA "cost containment" model of intercollegiate football....twenty years earlier.

The schools with the perception that they didn't have the fan followings that it took be a 1-A. The schools that didn't have the money, and support for a large scale athletic department, that couldn't recruit.....etc. etc.

UConn (with Villanova) got tapped to join what was to become a BCS conference, in 1996, and what did the other football members think then? The other members like Miami? Well....the same thing that members like Syracuse and Pitt thought in 2003 when Depaul and Marquette were included in the expansion plan.

The real danger for UConn was in the early 1990s, not now, because except for football, for the previous decade, we had completely severed ties to every athletic department in the northeast that was like minded and of similar mission and were very close to being in position to #begharder to get into what would become the CAA, or the A10, with a basketball programs that was just experiencing what it was like to be on the big stage and an atheltic department,a nd univeristy itself - the academic and infrastructure part - that was still - well if you were on campus back in the 80s and early 90s....and havne't been back since - you wouldn't recognize anything.

We went big time in basketball in 1979, and then brought all sports except football along to the big east by 1982. Even though we weren't playing big time b-ball until late 1980s and after JIm Calhoun was hired.

With the likes of Syracuse, PItt, Boston College in real consideration of joining an all sports, 16 team league, with Miami, VTech, Temple, Rutgers, Memphis, Florida State, among others....in 1990....the big east was the closest it's ever been to collapsing. The big east leadership decided to start a football league, and invite some of those 1-A programs to play, and that superconference never formed, and FSU ended up in the ACC, Conference USA formed,....etc.

There is a difference between Memphis in 2011, and UConn in 1997 though, as pitiful as it has been in recent times, Memphis actually is a division 1-A program, as are all the others. Depaul, Marquette? their football programs? I've been over the past 10 years ad nauseum.

It was not until 2010, and John Marinatto making the move for TCU, that the big east conference demonstrated any single action that reflected an actual committment to football, beyond doing the bare minimum for the basketball conference to remain on the favorable side of the divide in intercollegiate athletics and revenue streams.

I think that the future of the big east is very bright, and if you want to know why you're at a certain position in time, and place, it's a good idea to know where you've come from. And if you want to continue on a path toward something, it's a good idea to be aligned with people that have the same mission and goals.

We also happen to be in a perfect position to take advantage of something called 'timing' with regards to media markets and the value of sports.

 

[businesslawyer]

I agree Pudge. I hope you don't mind my blathering on your thread.

.

Wait -- are you saying that if we mind, you won't do it?

 

[Carl Spackler]

all you gotta do...

is ask me nicely.

 

[Dougsts]

all you gotta do...

is ask me nicely.

In that case, please continue Carl